G'day guys,
Quick question bout a Muncie m22 I'm lookin at with a chev bellhousing. Will it mate up with my chev pattern 308 block and if so are there any dramas with this set up? Standard shifter ok or after market needed?Also it's completely rebuilt with bearings, synchros and other goodies what's a fair price for a rebuilt second handy?
Muncie bell housing
Started by
_zooma355_
, Sep 09 2012 12:48 PM
24 replies to this topic
#3
View GaragePosted 09 September 2012 - 02:40 PM
The Chev bell housing should be fine for Chev pattern 308, although could be a hassle if it has a left side clutch fork setup. There are some right side ones around, and some have the casting to allow the fork to be moved to the other side (may require some drilling and cutting but its obvious where it goes).
Standard Muncie shifters are not flash at all, a Hurst or similar is the go and most have an aftermarket shifter already anyway. Won't fit in the tunnel in standard form, need to modify the tunnel and/or shifter to gain clearance, the box itself fits fine.
Over here price is likely to be $1K (cheap) to $2500+ (expensive), but I imagine a bit less for you guys.
Standard Muncie shifters are not flash at all, a Hurst or similar is the go and most have an aftermarket shifter already anyway. Won't fit in the tunnel in standard form, need to modify the tunnel and/or shifter to gain clearance, the box itself fits fine.
Over here price is likely to be $1K (cheap) to $2500+ (expensive), but I imagine a bit less for you guys.
#4
_zooma355_
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Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:19 PM
Cheers for that mate,
Are there many differant types of muncies or are the m22's all classed as "rock crusher"?
And while I'm at it haha what flywheel and clutch set ups would u advise?
Are there many differant types of muncies or are the m22's all classed as "rock crusher"?
And while I'm at it haha what flywheel and clutch set ups would u advise?
#5
Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:23 PM
M20 is wide ratio, M21 is close ratio and M22 is close ratio with shallower tooth angle (stronger and noisier hence the 'rock crusher' name). Early M20s had a 2.56:1 first gear and have a couple of internal weaknesses which were addressed in later model ones which have the 2.52:1 first gear, M21s and M22s were introduced with the later version. They're in a different league than an Aussie 4 speed in terms of strength, will put up with more abuse than most OEM manual gearboxes (they were factory fitted behind big blocks in the peak of the muscle car era).
Aftermarket suppliers make all the parts including gear sets new now, you can even get the wider ratio gears with the shallow angle teeth, plus additional ratios besides.
Generally M22s have the larger 26 spline input shaft and 32(? same as TH400) spline output, the others could have these or the normal 10 spline input and 27 spline output same as a Holden box. The 308 flywheel with a 10.5" clutch (which is about all you can get now anyway) will bolt straight up, just get the right spline clutch plate to suit your box.
Plenty of info on the web because they're so common in the US, Camaros, Chevelles, Corvettes etc.
Aftermarket suppliers make all the parts including gear sets new now, you can even get the wider ratio gears with the shallow angle teeth, plus additional ratios besides.
Generally M22s have the larger 26 spline input shaft and 32(? same as TH400) spline output, the others could have these or the normal 10 spline input and 27 spline output same as a Holden box. The 308 flywheel with a 10.5" clutch (which is about all you can get now anyway) will bolt straight up, just get the right spline clutch plate to suit your box.
Plenty of info on the web because they're so common in the US, Camaros, Chevelles, Corvettes etc.
#6
_zooma355_
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Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:29 PM
Yeah righto thx heaps mate. Been lookin at the hurst website, is it one of the camaro one's or is there a specific shifter that's good for the torry?
#7
_Skapinad_
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Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:33 PM
Pm sparkeater on this forum, he is the resident expert...
#8
Lima31
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Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:34 PM
#10
_zooma355_
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Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:44 PM
Cheers for that guys, bad news just found out its only an m20!!! Advertised to go behind a big block!!!! Like to see that!
Back to the drawing board!
Any suggestions on where i can find a reasonable m22 without spending a fortune?
Back to the drawing board!
Any suggestions on where i can find a reasonable m22 without spending a fortune?
#11
Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:41 PM
If its a Muncie then an M20 is fine still; these are the widest ratio Muncie but similar gears to the closest ratio Aussie 4 speed, its still a close ratio box, and still suitable for a mild big block.
#12
_zooma355_
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Posted 10 September 2012 - 07:11 PM
Got a vn headed stroker goin in it so hopin for 500 fly hp, still ok?
#13
Posted 10 September 2012 - 07:56 PM
I'm not going to promise you anything but its no worse than an M21 Muncie (only the ratios differ) and better than most. If you've got the coin you could go straight to a brand new M22 (which also gives you more of a choice of ratios), I doubt you'll find an original one and unless you're chasing matching numbers for a factory Chev there's no point. If its cheap you can always use it while you save up for the new one, it may surprise you.
#14
_zooma355_
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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:07 PM
Rito mate, it's goin for 1350 with the bell housing so might have to take a punt. Have they got good ratios for a 3.55 rear end or ya reckon I'll want to upgrade em pretty soon after?
#15
Lima31
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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:55 PM
Well you can get new/rebuilt M22s landed from the States for less than $2k. High end units around $3.5k.
All factory original Muncies pretty much have 1.0 final ratio. If you're concerned about highway cruising I would save up for a M22 with overdrive 4th (~0.86 instead of the usual 1.0) or an M21Y.
If you're concerned about the gear strength with an M20 you could always consider switching out the M20 internals for M22 internals, from the States these kits are advertised as less than $750USD. I would think that the case would be fine for your application but not sure.
All factory original Muncies pretty much have 1.0 final ratio. If you're concerned about highway cruising I would save up for a M22 with overdrive 4th (~0.86 instead of the usual 1.0) or an M21Y.
If you're concerned about the gear strength with an M20 you could always consider switching out the M20 internals for M22 internals, from the States these kits are advertised as less than $750USD. I would think that the case would be fine for your application but not sure.
Edited by Lima31, 10 September 2012 - 08:56 PM.
#16
Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:27 PM
3.55:1 would probably be OK with either M20 or M21 ratios, probably M20 slightly better
#17
_Spark Eater_
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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:17 PM
if you can find a dellow bellhousing for cheap enough, I got one for about 200 with all kinds of crap including forged throwout fork and brackets for the slave, a slave, and some other bits and pieces...
or the monaro one (more expensive second hand being original monaro stuff though), they have the fork on the correct side, and the dellow or crs ones can be setup for cable or hydraulic.
dellow/crs make the bracket for the slave have different bolt patterns so you can't interchange pieces, I'd probably go CRS if I had to buy one new, they always have a crapload of info and are happy to talk about anything.
I got my supercase new muncie m22 (most severe duty case and internals you can possibly get) built with custom ratios for $1995USD from fourgeartrans.com
the guy is AWESOME. but you have to organise your own shipping.
it's great to know that hurst shifter works, I'll be buying one of those, hopefully I can find one second hand. dunno what to do yet about the gearstick beign on the wrong side though...
or the monaro one (more expensive second hand being original monaro stuff though), they have the fork on the correct side, and the dellow or crs ones can be setup for cable or hydraulic.
dellow/crs make the bracket for the slave have different bolt patterns so you can't interchange pieces, I'd probably go CRS if I had to buy one new, they always have a crapload of info and are happy to talk about anything.
I got my supercase new muncie m22 (most severe duty case and internals you can possibly get) built with custom ratios for $1995USD from fourgeartrans.com
the guy is AWESOME. but you have to organise your own shipping.
it's great to know that hurst shifter works, I'll be buying one of those, hopefully I can find one second hand. dunno what to do yet about the gearstick beign on the wrong side though...
Edited by Spark Eater, 10 September 2012 - 10:25 PM.
#18
Lima31
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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:36 PM
I got my supercase new muncie m22 (most severe duty case and internals you can possibly get) built with custom ratios for $1995USD from fourgeartrans.com
the guy is AWESOME. but you have to organise your own shipping.
What ratios did you go and what diff ratio are you running?
it's great to know that hurst shifter works, I'll be buying one of those, hopefully I can find one second hand. dunno what to do yet about the gearstick beign on the wrong side though...
http://www.gmh-torana.com.au/forums/topic/53868-anyone-keen-on-fabricating-this/
#19
_Spark Eater_
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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:56 AM
What ratios did you go and what diff ratio are you running?
http://www.gmh-toran...bricating-this/
I said "custom" just because I wanted these ratios
2.52
1.88
1.46
1.00
dunno if I can afford to get that shifer made, until I get my hands on oxy and some damn equipment I might have to deal with the normal one.
also, ignore the sacrastic post by that frOcking dunce skapinad, I only just bought my first ever m22
#20
_Spark Eater_
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Posted 11 September 2012 - 04:19 AM
also 3.89 gears, 26" rear tyres will have the engine breathing properly exactly at the speed limit
#21
Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:50 AM
I just got out the grinder and welder, solved the tunnel problem and located the stick betterdunno what to do yet about the gearstick beign on the wrong side though...
http://www.gmh-torana.com.au/forums/topic/35231-ss-hatch/page__st__100#entry638425
#22
_zooma355_
_zooma355_
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Posted 12 September 2012 - 10:51 AM
Thx for all ya help boys will most probably get back to ya for more advice!!!
#23
_2door350_
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Posted 12 September 2012 - 06:15 PM
69 Camaro sifter is offset, comes up smack bang in the middle of the tunnel, just put one in my HT
#24
yel327
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Posted 15 September 2012 - 05:54 PM
Well you can get new/rebuilt M22s landed from the States for less than $2k. High end units around $3.5k.
All factory original Muncies pretty much have 1.0 final ratio. If you're concerned about highway cruising I would save up for a M22 with overdrive 4th (~0.86 instead of the usual 1.0) or an M21Y.
If you're concerned about the gear strength with an M20 you could always consider switching out the M20 internals for M22 internals, from the States these kits are advertised as less than $750USD. I would think that the case would be fine for your application but not sure.
Overdrive on these is actually on 3rd! Wierd but true.
#25
Posted 15 September 2012 - 08:12 PM
Has to be, 4th gear is just straight lock up from input to output
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