Jump to content


Photo

Torana power steering kits.


  • Please log in to reply
172 replies to this topic

#151 _VINESY_

_VINESY_
  • Guests

Posted 17 February 2021 - 04:34 PM

I overcome the problem with the EFI engines by fitting a type 2 Sagnal pump to the right head and modifying the original VS air conditioner bracket to suit the new style compressor. The water pump serpentine pully has more grip than it looks in the photo, very hard to try and turn by hand.

 

 

attachicon.giflhpump.jpg

 

 

Hi axistr, 

 

Will a set up like this work on a 1992 5lt? Vp SS edition. 

 

I have pwr steering, a/c and alternator that I need to run and would prefer a better belt setup. But not gilmer.



#152 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,163 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 18 February 2021 - 08:32 AM

G'day Nathan, yes any Holden V8. Its only a matter of deciding what you want and design a system to suit. I wanted to run a serpentine belt because I'm not a fan of V belts, they need adjusting regularly, not as quiet in operation, generally have less grip and not as compact compared to serpentine belts. 

 

The engine that I bought had no accessories drive pulleys, power steering pump or compressor so I could start with a clean slate. It was easier than I first thought to convert. Its not hard with a little bit of thinking. I had to mount the power steering pump on the right or it would fowl with the throttle body. A new Ford BA 6cyl Saginaw type 2 pump was cheap and a good starting point so it was an obvious choice. It all come together reasonably easy. My engine was from a VR Clubsport. Astra electric pumps are getting very common these days due as the pump can be mounted just about anywhere and doesn't interfere with the accessories drive system. I still like the look of a mechanical pump in the engine bay.

 

Cheers Lenny.  



#153 nz454

nz454

    Forum Participant

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts
  • Name:Zane
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Car:UC torana
  • Joined: 05-February 11

Posted 06 March 2021 - 08:17 PM

Hi, this is how I did mine in the end. The pump and reservoir are vz-vf commodore, its a custom pulley and bracket with a stock crank pulley. Cheers Zane

Attached Files



#154 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,163 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 18 September 2021 - 03:42 PM

Torana camber/caster adjustment.

 

This is something I have been meaning to post for a while but hang back till I had more feed back from customers. Fitting offset front suspension bushes. Its nothing new and has been done before. I'm a real fuss pot when it comes to wheel alignments, I have seen so many so called experts that reckon they know how to align everything from push bikes to road trains, but in reality I ask a couple of simple questions and quickly realize push bikes are probably beyond them.

 

I get quite a few call from customers in relation to the best camber and caster setting for their Torana. This of course is a double sided question. It depends on the intended driving conditions for example, circuit racing, Targa racing, drag racing, street cruising, outback touring, very high cambered roads and sloppy verses stiff suspension setup. The alignment should be tailored to suit the majority of the cars usage. I will concentrate on street as it would cover the majority of users on here.

 

Camber drivers side: zero -1/4 degree negative.

     "        pass     "    : 1/4 - 1/2      "           "

 

Caster drivers side: 1- 5 degrees positive (even between sides)

Caster  Pass     "        "       "            "            "           "          "

 

Toe: at ride height 1.5mm to 3mm total toe in.

 

Thrust angle (diff thrust angle) zero thrust - 1mm per meter down hill (left)

 

Ok with my preferred setting out of the way the common question I get asked " is 3 or 4 degrees of negative camber ok". NO it will wear out the insides of both front tyres premature. This also reduces the tyre foot print on the road reducing traction in all but very high speed cornering and that is almost impossible on the street through every corner. So the wheel alignment guy putts way to much toe in to compensate for to much negative camber, then your car scrubs the tyres across the whole tread so it looks like they are wearing better, but you only get 5k - 10k out of the front tyres, twitchier steering and toe in on turns. Not good.

 

Its hard to get good caster and camber setting on the Torana at the best of times with the original setup and components. I have touched on the use of HQ stub axles a few times and the difference in king pin inclination causing excessive negative cambers. The KPI angle also effects the scrub radius which is not ideal. Over the past forty odd years many cars have been involved in accidents, driven over millions of large pot holes and probably the odd sheep dip, cattle grids and off road adventures. This can cause twisting, bending and cracking of the k-frames. I have seen my fair share of K-frames  top towers that have come closer together and pulled the rails in with it, not easy to see by eye. 

 

Fitting offset bushes to the lower front of front control arms can solve the majority of alignment problems. 

 

Bush kit Whitline No: W52491 

 

 

         Attached File  DSC_01492125.JPG   98.81K   5 downloads

 

When fitting these bushes (one offset bush per side to the front of the front lower control arms) the camber and caster range can be greatly increased. I have been advised by customers that have fitted these bush kits they achieved a decrease of 3 degrees camber and at the same time increased caster between 4 1/2 - 6 degrees positive caster. Most of the camber/caster adjustment can be simply achieved by turning the eccentric bush bolt using a spanner. (much quicker and easier than top control arm shims). You also have further adjustment on the top control arms by using the original shims. I would recommend removing all the top control arms shims  as this will reduce some of the negative camber first allowing for more positive caster which is a plus with power steering. Positive caster gives a more weighted feeling, generally better handling and improved camber gain in cornering. The bush offset in most cases will be offset towards the engine dragging the lower control arm ball joint position forward (more positive caster) and inward (reducing negative camber).   

 

By adding more positive caster this causes a more forward lower ball joint position moving the tyre forward increasing the gap between the firewall and tyre, generally a plus for a Torana with bigger wheels and tyres. Although front flares to tyre gap will be reduced. Shimming the rear of the front top control arm mount will further increase positive caster so you can max out the adjustment of the bushes and trim up even caster between sides if necessary at the same time setting finer cambers if still required. It seam so far everyone has be able to achieve good alignment settings with these bushes and have commented how it improved the handling. The big benefit of power steering is the increased positive caster and still being able to steer it with ease. With a manual rack and 6 degrees of positive caster even with Popeye arms you would probably tear the steering column out quickly.

 

I hope this will help those with alignment issues. Just make sure your alignment guy is up to speed on basic alignment knowledge. I still get phone calls from alignment companies that can't work out why cars pull left or right and didn't know caster/camber or thrust angles effected pulls.

 

Happy motoring,

 

Lenny.          

 

 



#155 Peter UC

Peter UC

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 763 posts
  • Location:Emerald Vic
  • Joined: 08-November 05

Posted 20 September 2021 - 01:40 PM

Thanks for sharing that Lenny, definitely an interesting idea. I actually don't know how you would get 6° of caster without these bushes while keeping the tyres out of the firewall.

I find it interesting your comments on negative camber as that has definitely not been my experience. I have around -1.4° camber and 3.3° of caster with 2mm of toe in and have a very nice wear pattern.

Any less camber and I end up just chopping the outer edge badly i.e. the outer edge just gets rounded off, maybe I'm more aggressive on the way into corners than the usual Torana driver :dontknow: .



#156 LXCHEV

LXCHEV

    Lotsa Posts!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,505 posts
  • Name:Brett
  • Location:Melbourne
  • Car:'76 LX - 383 Chev
  • Joined: 08-November 05

Posted 20 September 2021 - 02:20 PM

Awesome post, cheers Lenny.

 

I wonder if those offset bushes would help out my LX. I've been running -3 degrees of camber for 20 years now (HQ stubs - old school conversion), but I think because I only run cheese-cutters on the front (15 x 4's), I've gotten away with it. Car steers/handles awesome and doesn't wear the tyres out (super low km car though). It'd be nice to pull it back though a degree or two.



#157 76lxhatch

76lxhatch

    That was easy!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,140 posts
  • Location:Unzud
  • Car:SS
  • Joined: 04-August 08
Garage View Garage

Posted 20 September 2021 - 02:37 PM

I made my own offset bushings by turning down some old Commodore IRS offset crush tubes and boring out some nice Superpro poly bushings to suit. Gets me around +6.5 degrees caster without compromising camber, and moving the wheel forward as mentioned is great for clearance. I don't see how you'd get anywhere near this with only shim adjustment, about the best I ever managed was somewhere around +3.5 I think?

 

I only run around -0.6 degrees caster which seems to work well coupled with the higher caster and low profile tyres, they actually wear quite evenly despite some spirited driving. Personally I think the camber has to suit the tyres, mine are relatively low profile (255/40/17) but if I had softer and/or taller sidewalls (e.g. a 14" or 15" wheel) I'd probably add some more negative camber. You also need more to make it handle if you don't have much caster.



#158 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,163 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 20 September 2021 - 06:03 PM

Thanks for sharing that Lenny, definitely an interesting idea. I actually don't know how you would get 6° of caster without these bushes while keeping the tyres out of the firewall.

I find it interesting your comments on negative camber as that has definitely not been my experience. I have around -1.4° camber and 3.3° of caster with 2mm of toe in and have a very nice wear pattern.

Any less camber and I end up just chopping the outer edge badly i.e. the outer edge just gets rounded off, maybe I'm more aggressive on the way into corners than the usual Torana driver :dontknow: .

 

Peter the settings are defiantly for the average cruise car and those figures are static, if the car is on an alignment machine and you sit in the drivers seat I would expect to see around 1/2- 3/4 degree camber change. Stiffer suspension less change. If your are a bit aggressive then you could run an extra 1/2 deg more negative camber. I always check toe when pushing out both front tryes (approximately 10kg of pressure by hands) and set the toe in to zero -1mm toe in to simulate the drag of the tyres on the road.

 

Also if your car is experiencing toe in on turns rather than toe out this maybe why your car could be wearing outsides of the tyres with low cambers. Bent stubs or steering arms can cause this. Checking KPI and toe on turns using an alignment machine generally shows this problem. If your thrust angle (diff to chassis angle) is a bit out this can effect tyre wear. Hi horsepower and engine torque can cause outside drivers tyre ware also. To get the perfect tyre ware a good alignment guy generally looks at the big picture and fine tunes the alignment to suit. 

 

I have never got less than 80k out of a set of tyres in any vehicle I have ever owned. Current work ute has 83,000km on the tyres and they have 60% to run. It makes a big difference if you get the alignment perfect and keep up with correct tyre pressures. You would be surprised how much better the car will handle and drive.   



#159 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,163 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 18 March 2022 - 08:37 AM

For the Facebook community minded people I have added a Facebook page for my Torana power steering kits, regular updates can be viewed here.

  

 

Link.

 

https://www.facebook...napowersteering

 

Its been very busy at Axis over the past 18 months and keeping stock on the shelf at times has been very difficult. I have tried to keep the prices of the kits down but unfortunately the cost of some buy in parts have almost doubled over the past twelve months and have had to factor those costs into the kits.

 

I decided to include the Universal Joint steering column adaptor as standard in the kits rather than previously being an option. All but two of the kits I have supplied over the past two years have requested the more compact universal joint for extra exhaust extractor to steering shaft clearance. Due to the low volume requests of the previous rag joint adaptors they will no longer be available, it just didn't make sense to have this expensive part sitting on the shelf gathering dust. It is possible for me to still get them made but the cost and time delay of doing one off adaptors will exceed $390.00. I previously had to order twenty five units at a time to get them under $360.00.

 

Both variable and fixed ratio rack kits are still available, however the variable ratio racks are getting harder to get. I have a specialist wrecker that constantly chases racks for me and has sourced them from all over Australia, he even chases private car owners with wrecks in their back yards for suitable racks. The racks are sourced from Subaru's but only two model from 1998-2006 are suitable for the conversion. Now that I have built over 250 kits the pool of used racks is obviously getting lower. Over the years I would order six rack and my supplier would send me them 2-3 weeks later, now the lead time has been 1-3 months. Fixed (standard) ratio racks were more plentiful but they have also been harder to source lately. On average one in six racks I get from my supplier are not suitable for reconditioning due to excessive ware, accident damage or pitting of the rack shaft. So unfortunately this has to be factored into the total cost of making these kits.

 

New power steering pump mount brackets for Holden V8 engines for mounting the common Saginaw type 1 pumps now come black powder coated. This bracket bolts the pump to the left (passengers side) cylinder head so no rearrangement of the original accessories drive or alternator position is required. The Holden TS Astra electric pump has also become very popular over the past few years. Power steering pump and hydraulic hoses are not included in the kit.  

 

 

 

Fixed (standard) ratio kits $2,995.00

Variable ratio kits                3,195.00

Pump mount brackets           120.00

 

 

Thanks again for all your support over the years and look forward to suppling kits well into the future.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Lenny.   


Edited by axistr, 18 March 2022 - 08:45 AM.


#160 Bigfella237

Bigfella237

    Socially Distant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,359 posts
  • Name:Andrew
  • Location:Far South Coast of NSW
  • Car:(s) not as many as I'd like but more than I've got space for!
  • Joined: 31-October 14

Posted 18 March 2022 - 09:27 AM

Hey Lenny, apologies if this is a silly question but...

 

Is there a "shelf-life" for an (almost) un-used kit?

 

What I mean is, if I were to buy one now for mock-up but the car doesn't see the road for ten years (don't laugh), are there any seals or rubber or anything else that's likely to deteriorate over time? And if so, is there anything we could do to help with long-term storage (fill it with oil, wrap it in glad-wrap, etc.)?

 

Bearing in mind that it might see some very light use at some stage being pushed around the shed.



#161 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,163 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 18 March 2022 - 11:55 AM

Hi Bigfeller, good question. When I finish building the racks I pressure test and centre them. Even though I work the rack from lock to lock a couple of times to remove excess fluid from the rack before shipping, there is always some fluid remaining in the rack. Any remaining fluid should go a long way to reducing surface rust inside, but there is always going to be air and with it moisture, If your going to move it around the shed and turning the wheel than you need to remove the dust caps from the hydraulic fittings I ship with the kit. Every time you move the wheels than your going to let more air in. If the rack was full of fluid and a closed system, example with the power steering pump connected in the system I wouldn't see a problem. The seals shouldn't be effected for long periods of storage if this is what your concerned about. What engine are you going to run ?   



#162 Bigfella237

Bigfella237

    Socially Distant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,359 posts
  • Name:Andrew
  • Location:Far South Coast of NSW
  • Car:(s) not as many as I'd like but more than I've got space for!
  • Joined: 31-October 14

Posted 18 March 2022 - 12:26 PM

Thanks for the reply. I was thinking about filling and bleeding the rack and then having a "loop" hose from one fitting to the other so it can still move but no air could get in.

 

Hmm... What engine... Another good question! Depending on the good old Aussie dollar (and whether we're dealing in Chinese Yuan by then), not to mention "Covid tax", it might be something from the LS crate family, otherwise it'll be based on a Holden block. And then it may well be driven by an electric pump similar to an Astra unit too (if I can find somewhere to put it)?

 

Too much thinking and not enough doing at the moment! I'm just heeding your warning about racks getting harder to source.



#163 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,163 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 18 March 2022 - 05:54 PM

Good idea with a loop bigfeller, I'd probably grab a remote plastic power steering reservoir off a late model Commodore and run the supply and return hoses to the rack. With LS engines its a bit of a tight fit but using the right engine mounts and sump combo most installers don't have any problems.

 

Holden or SBC V8 engines have more clearance to the power steering rack mount bracket due to the higher and narrower sump rail. I would defiantly trial fit the rack if I was fitting an LS engine.

 

I generally don't encounter clearance issues with exhaust to steering shafts since moving to the more compact universal joint adaptor. This has eliminated steering shaft to primary pipe interference. The rag joint OD was around 76mm, uni joint 45mm OD.  



#164 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,163 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 03 May 2022 - 04:32 PM

The type 2 Holden Astra electric power steering pump is becoming very popular of late. One common question that regularly crops up is wiring the pump into a Torana. I have listed below the correct wiring connection.


Pinout and Cables


Wire Colours and Functions
Cable Colour Gauge Function.


Red 10mm² +12V Supply
Brown 10mm² Chassis Ground
Black 0.75mm² +12V Ignition Signal
Blue-White 0.75mm² Alternator Pin 61
Brown-White 0.75mm² K-Bus Diagnostics.


Note: The diagnostic
Brown-White wire will not be used.


To ensure a quick start up of the pump the signals on the black and blue-white wire need to be sequenced. The black wire indicates that the ignition is on. This alone does not start the pump, probably to save battery capacity for starting the engine. Only if there's voltage on the blue-white wire present the pump starts. This would be connected to the alternator to indicate the engine is running and the alternator provides enough current to feed the power steering pump.


Connecting both wires together and feeding them +12V at the same time works as well, but results in slow spool up of the pump.


Note: 2) insure the ignition supply (Black wire) is not connected to an ignition feed that has a resister in the circuit. Holden used a ballast resister ignition wire to the coil, so do not use this wire as the ignition feed for the black pump wire.


K-Bus Communications
The pump can be accessed for diagnostics via K-Bus. This has not been reverse engineered yet.


Power Consumption
The pump should be connected via an 80A fuse to the 12V. The initial current will be quite high, the idle current should be around 6A without delta pressure from the steering column.
 
Hope the above helps,
 
Cheers Lenny.


Edited by axistr, 03 May 2022 - 04:37 PM.


#165 Cook

Cook

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,496 posts
  • Location:Melbourne
  • Car:LX Hatch
  • Joined: 27-February 15

Posted 04 May 2022 - 09:20 AM

Good morning Lenny. I take my hat off to you for your extensive knowledge but just as admiral is your willingness to freely share this knowledge. Hopefully one day we will talk when I look to adding power steering to the hatch.  Cheers Ron



#166 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,163 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 25 May 2022 - 08:36 AM

Hi all, Over the past few months I've had a few customers wanting me to recommend someone to install a power steering kit. I know most owners are fitting the kits themselves. However a customer from Bacchus Marsh (Vic) 3340 has asked for a mechanic to install a kit close to him. If any owners have had their power steering fitted by a workshop/mechanic that they were happy with could you please post them up here to help others. 

 

I would also appreciate any recommendation which could be from anywhere in Australia not just the current Brcchus Marsh. This will help other Torana owners through the power steering conversion. There is now more than 260 Axis power steering kits out there so hopefully we will see a few names pop up.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Regards Lenny.   



#167 LJ RB30

LJ RB30

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 973 posts
  • Name:Trevor
  • Location:Perth
  • Joined: 12-March 09

Posted 26 May 2022 - 12:03 AM

Hoppers stoppers?

Just down the road.

Could be a good set up for someone that wants some brakes & a well sorted power steering setup if Hoppers were keen! 

I personally haven't used neither, only read what others have been through.



#168 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,163 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 12 October 2022 - 12:25 PM

It's been very busy making power steering kits lately. Over the past ten years I've been plotting along averaging twelve kits per year. So far this year I have completed fifty power steering conversion kits which has worn me down. Trying to keep up with a supply of used racks to use for the conversion has been very tiresome and the main reason for longer than expected kit supply times.  I currently have twelve back orders which I have been slowly working through. If an order is placed today expected delivery December/January, but again it's the used racks which will govern delivery times. When I track down and take delivery of suitable used racks it's not until I strip them only to find one or two out of every six racks I get can't be modified and rebuilt which really buggers up my allocation list. So much for semi-retirement.

 

I also had the opportunity to fit a Camber/Caster bush kit (Whiteline W52491) to a K-frame this week. The customer dropped off all his freshly painted parts for me to assemble and rebuild the K-frame then fit my variable ratio power steering kit and my 298mm brake upgrade kit. The customer opted for dimpled and slotted rotors, SS braded brake hoses, Koni adjustable shocks, kings 1" lowered HD front springs. After assemble I took a few Caster/Camber reading. The offset bush kit is fitted to the front of the lower control arms only. Moving the adjusting bolt through 360 deg allowed camber and caster adjustment of just over 2 deg. With no shims under the top control arms it's possible to achieve zero camber and 2 deg of positive Caster. Adding a few shims behind the rear top control arm bolt and it should be easy to obtain 1/2 deg of negative Camber and 4 deg of positive Caster. This kit should go a long way to rectifying excessive negative Camber on Toranas fitted with HQ front stub axles with 7 deg king pin inclination. 

 

 

Cheers Lenny.

 

 

Attached File  k2.jpg   241.81K   12 downloads

 

Attached File  k3.jpg   19.76K   4 downloads

 

 

        

 

 

 



#169 myss427

myss427

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,636 posts
  • Location:Canberra
  • Car:427 hatch, CV8 Monaro, Ve SSV ute. Was part owner A9X sedan until he sold it without telling me!
  • Joined: 17-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 12 October 2022 - 12:32 PM

Going to have to do it Lenny, what do you need from me to start the ball rolling? Have HX stubbs with A9X steering arms and want to go Astra pump. Send me account details and will transfer deposit or what you need.

 

Brett



#170 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,163 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 12 October 2022 - 01:29 PM

Going to have to do it Lenny, what do you need from me to start the ball rolling? Have HX stubbs with A9X steering arms and want to go Astra pump. Send me account details and will transfer deposit or what you need.

 

Brett

 

 

PM sent Brett.



#171 76lxhatch

76lxhatch

    That was easy!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,140 posts
  • Location:Unzud
  • Car:SS
  • Joined: 04-August 08
Garage View Garage

Posted 12 October 2022 - 01:30 PM

I did similar with the offset bushings, except mine are custom modified from standard Superpro bushings. With UC upper arms and Torana stubs I run around +6.5 degrees caster with -0.6 camber and well within the factory maximum shim stack. Big improvement, and as an added bonus moving the lower ball joint forward helps with wheel clearance and centering in the arch.



#172 Liam S

Liam S

    Forum Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 73 posts
  • Name:Liam Stephenson
  • Location:Maryborough
  • Car:LX Torana
  • Joined: 18-October 20

Posted 13 October 2022 - 07:25 AM

Hey Lenny, can I get a quote etc please, looking to get one for my LX.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#173 axistr

axistr

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,163 posts
  • Location:North west sydney
  • Joined: 19-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 13 October 2022 - 06:54 PM

Hey Lenny, can I get a quote etc please, looking to get one for my LX.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Hi Liam,

 

Kits start from $3,200.00 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users