been reading alot on t5 conversions and all still seem to place the shifter rearwards of the factory spot. to me this is not exceptable. been looking into how to fix this. been toying with the idea of a mustang rear houseing on a ford 6 box on a toploader or if u perfer dellow/crs bell houseing. seems the distance on a mustang box from the center of the shifter to the face the bellhouseing bolts too is 19.51" and a ford 6 box has an imput shaft of 167mm or 6.57" for a total of 26.08" from tip of input shaft to center of the shifter. from what i can tell an aussie four speed is 26"
anyone tryed this before or can see problems with this combo?
t5 conversion idea, thoughts
Started by
_pinklx_
, Oct 23 2012 04:20 PM
62 replies to this topic
#2
_pinklx_
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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:58 PM
just a side thought, if useing the mustang houseing on a holden v8 t5 the shifter should land about 38mm further back than the ford box/aussie four speed. witch of course means no convertion bellhouseing/clutch would be needed.
#3
_Waldorf_
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Posted 23 October 2012 - 05:49 PM
By all accounts the Holden T5 fitted with the F*#d extension puts the shifter close to where it should be.....Statler is the one you need to talk to about that,he has just done it.
#4
_pinklx_
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Posted 23 October 2012 - 05:59 PM
yes i looked into that as well but it only moves the shifter forward about 1" witch puts the shifter about 3" back from the right spot. useing a holden v8 t5 with a ford 6 extention.
#5
Statler
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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:03 PM
So make up a bended shifter stalk! 
I always thought the stock shifter needed moved back anyway.
I always thought the stock shifter needed moved back anyway.
#6
_pinklx_
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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:37 PM
yeah i just realy dont want to cut the floor if i can help it. ive orderd 2 mustang rear houseings and have a selection of t5's laying around so im going to have a play with them when they show up and see what i can do. i just thought maybe someone else may have tryed this so they didnt have to cut the floor either.
#7
View GaragePosted 24 October 2012 - 06:26 AM
The threads on various other forums always talk about using the Ford box with a conversion housing to get the shifter in the right spot for a Holden, so apparently it works fine (haven't done it myself).
#8
Statler
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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:45 AM
There is a big difference between 'opening the shifter hole up' & 'opening the tunnel'.
#9
_pinklx_
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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:56 AM
yes after a few days of reading it seems the most common is ford box or ford extention on holden box, both still missing the correct shifter spot and causeing cutting, also its sad to say about 95% of the stuff ive read on differant forums is just total bullshit. seems alot of people comment with things they have no idea on.
#10
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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:59 AM
opening the tunnel should be unessersry in any of the differant t5 conversions unless u have the box too high, u can fit a t56 in ther without cutting the tunnel and its alot bigger box.
#11
_LS2 Hatch_
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Posted 24 October 2012 - 09:25 PM
Check out the web site of Mal Wood, he sells a kit or does the mod for you. Well I think that's the case anyway, I know he des the T56. It's worth a look anyway.
Also I put the T56 in my LX and there was no way it was going to fit without cutting the tunnel.
Also I put the T56 in my LX and there was no way it was going to fit without cutting the tunnel.
#12
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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:24 PM
yes i looked at a few mal wood t56 conversions on this site. one thread i did read managed to fit the t56 without cutting the tunnel but had surgery on the box itself, all casting lumps and bumps removed and a little pannel beating for the reverse lockout solinoid. was a realy sweet job i must say. stock shiffter on a vr/vs/vt series 1 or an early camaro box is only 2" further back than stock too. but in this thread i was thinking t5 not t56. i havent found anything on mal woods site about t5's and mustang houseings but thats not to say its not there. i will look again.
#13
_nemo355v8_
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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:48 PM
pre AU T5 puts the shift right in the original aussie 4 speed shifter hole, trim around 1/2 inch of the back of the factory hole for clearance. Ive done it
#14
_pinklx_
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Posted 02 November 2012 - 10:25 AM
yes the stick sits about 2" further back than the aussie box. not a bad convertion, i was just attempting to get it in the same spot.
#15
_nemo355v8_
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Posted 02 November 2012 - 09:33 PM
Mate Ive done the T5 to my torana, CRS toploader/single rail bellhousing with a Falcon pre AU T5 bolted up.
Shift position is as stock torana, I even cut up a old aussie 4 speed shifter and welded a flat piece of steel to it then drilled the 2 holes then bolted it to the T5.
A look a the consul and shift and you wouldnt know it was not still a aussie 4 in it.
Shame it couldnt handle the 355 and had to go back to the single rail.
Shift position is as stock torana, I even cut up a old aussie 4 speed shifter and welded a flat piece of steel to it then drilled the 2 holes then bolted it to the T5.
A look a the consul and shift and you wouldnt know it was not still a aussie 4 in it.
Shame it couldnt handle the 355 and had to go back to the single rail.
Edited by nemo355v8, 02 November 2012 - 09:34 PM.
#16
Struggler
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Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:14 AM
A couple of years ago Nemo walked me through this conversion using a T5 and a toploader bellhousing and yes, the XF-EL 6cyl shifter is exactly in the standard M20/21 location.
#17
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Posted 03 November 2012 - 01:58 PM
dunno guys the ford box i have here is 28" from block face to center shifter and the aussie box is 26" think this box is out of an xf? as far as i know all the early ford boxs are the same length right?
#18
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Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:32 PM
Sure its a T5 ?
I have a spare out in the shed, I'll measure it up tomorrow.
I have a spare out in the shed, I'll measure it up tomorrow.
#19
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Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:16 AM
yes definately a t5 i have three ford boxs here, all the same. and two holden v8 boxs that are 30" from bolt up face to center shifter.
#20
toranamech
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Posted 06 November 2012 - 02:22 PM
Hi I am looking at the same info as well and it seems there is a lot of misinformation out there. I am researching as I want to replace the M21 for strength and extra gear reasons, I can add some information that I have found myself and have actually measured and have in my possesion, so no mateosaurus interweb errors, or worse the "my mechanic" bromances.
3 basic types we got here in Australia, Non world class 83-89, world class 89-mid 94 and Updated "cobra" spec world class mid 94 mid 2003. 2 cases GM in holden V8 or Ford in ford and GM V6.
Forget any non world class, old crap, gives the T5's a bad name, the world class are ok in mild use, but really marginal in performance use, so once again the T5’s are crap comes out.
For V8 use you really only use the "cobra" or "z" spec T5's, they have a tapered pocket bearing and the gears are made of a better alloy. There is basically 2 ratio types in these mid 92 onwards T5’s ( NOTE holden never went to z spec in 6 cylinder, they went Getrag in VS), the 6 cylinder ratios 3.25, 1.99,1.29, 1.00, .72 falcon, 295 ft/lbs max, and the V8 ratios 2.95, 1.94, 1.34,1.00, .73, 330fl/lbs, the best box you are after for performance applications.
The easiest way for a quick ID check is the casting date code on the top plate, pretty right 93 onwards. The other check to see if z spec and 6/8 ratio, you can remove input shaft and see if 15 rollers or tapered bearing, 23 teeth 3.25 ratio, 24 teeth 2.95 ratio. This will also sort these modified EBAY specials, selling as V8 T5’s yet weaker gears and wider ratios using a cut down V6 input.
As far as measurements, a VN V8 box is 30” 765mm from block BUF to centre of shifter, rear extension housing 0552-066901, same v6 or v8, the falcon EA-EL extension is 20mm shorter 0552-066903, the BA is 50mm longer 0552-066926. I am also looking to get hold of a Mustang bellhousing, early one is 13-52-066-919, but I want a 94 one as I need the reverse brake etc for the “Z” spec box.
Input shafts are Group A T5G 160mm, ford 6 167mm, ford Mustang v8 180mm, ford EB v8 193mm, commodore v8 205mm, v6 240mm.
So from that quick rundown you can see how the falcon 6 is a popular choice to get the stick 60mm more forward than V8 commodore so at 705mm about spot on, but the kicker is the weaker gears and wider ratios. And there is the classic conversion CRS dellow line, they say they are all the same but the strength varies and normally a second hand flogged box is used so all a bit dodgy.
My plan at this stage is to try to make as close as possible to a T5G replica but in Z spec using different parts, I am trying to find out what the shortest tapered pocket bearing 24T input shaft Tremec make as I have a Trimatic to GM t5 bellhousing from a Walkinshaw.
I will update when I know more, my brother is in the US at the moment and has been able to get hold of a lot more information and contacts, but in short T5’s are great, very versatile, but they need the latest gear sets and a few internal mods to be able to cop a flogging.
3 basic types we got here in Australia, Non world class 83-89, world class 89-mid 94 and Updated "cobra" spec world class mid 94 mid 2003. 2 cases GM in holden V8 or Ford in ford and GM V6.
Forget any non world class, old crap, gives the T5's a bad name, the world class are ok in mild use, but really marginal in performance use, so once again the T5’s are crap comes out.
For V8 use you really only use the "cobra" or "z" spec T5's, they have a tapered pocket bearing and the gears are made of a better alloy. There is basically 2 ratio types in these mid 92 onwards T5’s ( NOTE holden never went to z spec in 6 cylinder, they went Getrag in VS), the 6 cylinder ratios 3.25, 1.99,1.29, 1.00, .72 falcon, 295 ft/lbs max, and the V8 ratios 2.95, 1.94, 1.34,1.00, .73, 330fl/lbs, the best box you are after for performance applications.
The easiest way for a quick ID check is the casting date code on the top plate, pretty right 93 onwards. The other check to see if z spec and 6/8 ratio, you can remove input shaft and see if 15 rollers or tapered bearing, 23 teeth 3.25 ratio, 24 teeth 2.95 ratio. This will also sort these modified EBAY specials, selling as V8 T5’s yet weaker gears and wider ratios using a cut down V6 input.
As far as measurements, a VN V8 box is 30” 765mm from block BUF to centre of shifter, rear extension housing 0552-066901, same v6 or v8, the falcon EA-EL extension is 20mm shorter 0552-066903, the BA is 50mm longer 0552-066926. I am also looking to get hold of a Mustang bellhousing, early one is 13-52-066-919, but I want a 94 one as I need the reverse brake etc for the “Z” spec box.
Input shafts are Group A T5G 160mm, ford 6 167mm, ford Mustang v8 180mm, ford EB v8 193mm, commodore v8 205mm, v6 240mm.
So from that quick rundown you can see how the falcon 6 is a popular choice to get the stick 60mm more forward than V8 commodore so at 705mm about spot on, but the kicker is the weaker gears and wider ratios. And there is the classic conversion CRS dellow line, they say they are all the same but the strength varies and normally a second hand flogged box is used so all a bit dodgy.
My plan at this stage is to try to make as close as possible to a T5G replica but in Z spec using different parts, I am trying to find out what the shortest tapered pocket bearing 24T input shaft Tremec make as I have a Trimatic to GM t5 bellhousing from a Walkinshaw.
I will update when I know more, my brother is in the US at the moment and has been able to get hold of a lot more information and contacts, but in short T5’s are great, very versatile, but they need the latest gear sets and a few internal mods to be able to cop a flogging.
Edited by toranamech, 06 November 2012 - 02:23 PM.
#21
toranamech
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Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:00 PM
The latest and only T5 available new from Tremec is a 1352-000251 it is 26.4 inch 670mm tip of input shaft to middle of shifter. input shaft is 7.14 inches 181mm, so all t5 cases are 235mm, that would make shifter centreline on that mustang extention housing, 255mm , vs 340 for VN v8 or 315 for ford E series.
so it would seem that extension housing just bolted to the back of a VN T5 would have the stick about 26.5 inches.
I guess up to you have you play it with bellhousings etc
so it would seem that extension housing just bolted to the back of a VN T5 would have the stick about 26.5 inches.
I guess up to you have you play it with bellhousings etc
#22
_pinklx_
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Posted 06 November 2012 - 06:39 PM
yes thats exactly ware i was heading with the mustang rear idea. i am waiting on two houseings from the states right now to try it. i figured useing it on the ford 6 box would be dam near exactly right for shifter possistion and on a vn v8 box only slightly back. thanks for all the info and as soon as my tail houseings arive i'll post up the exact shifter lengths.
#23
_pinklx_
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Posted 06 November 2012 - 06:49 PM
oh btw, there is two differant v8 holden t5's. one with a muncie/saginaw patern case and in late vr there is a ford pattern v8 t5 as well. i have one here. only one ive seen but the bellhouseing is holden v8, deffinately not re drilled and is ford bolt pattern for the box.
#24
Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:30 PM
Yeah I think most Commodores got the later style, mostly only early VNs that had the proper GM bolt pattern (don't quote me on that though)
#25
_pinklx_
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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:13 PM
ah yes it says vr has the a style case witch means, vn, vp, got the b style. most ive seen are b style.
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