Would like to know what the most common LC/LJ Nc class cars run as blocks. From my quick observation at Sandown no one is running CK or JP id blocks. Most seemed to have V* id blocks so I would like to lnow what the CAMS Spec sheet shows for LC and LJ in the engine identification section.
Also interested to know what CAMS allow you to run in Group C - LJ and LH in the way of Engine blocks.
Group Nc specification sheet - engine id and Group C
Started by
_sloper35_
, Jan 17 2013 10:19 AM
10 replies to this topic
#2
darway43
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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:39 PM
I thought they just ran any 202 Block. I would have thought most guys would try to use a 202 out of a later model vehicle (commodore?). Blue or Black motor.
If you go to the CAMS website they have links to all the required specs, although some of the info is difficult to understand.
See link below and a snippet in regards to engine.
http://www.camsmanua...08_historic.asp
"Engine: the original type and design of the cylinder block as originally used in the make, model and year of the vehicle in question or a CAMS-approved alternative (which will be outlined in the vehicle Specification Sheet) must be employed.
Internal engine components (eg, pistons, piston rings, connecting rods, crankshaft, bearings and gaskets) are free, subject to relevant bore and stroke restrictions for the Group in question (see Group-specific regulations). Main bearing cap supports or girdles may be used. The engine block may be "sleeved" to achieve the correct bore dimensions.
Save that the original number and location must be retained, camshafts are free.
The original type and design of cylinder head casting as originally used in the make, model and year of the vehicle in question, or a CAMS-approved alternative (which will be outlined in the vehicle Specification Sheet) must be employed.
Cylinder head/s may be modified provided such modification is effected only by the removal of metal. Variation in combustion chamber or port design by the addition of material attached by welding, bonding or mechanical fastening systems is not allowed. Welding as required to reclaim damaged cylinder heads is permitted. The insertion or replacement of valve seat inserts is permitted. Cylinder head components not forming part of the cylinder head casting are free.
Note: Save that the original type of drive belt must be retained, engine pulleys are free.
The engine mountings may be replaced by components of alternative design provided that the engine remains in the original position in relation to the body/chassis with a tolerance of ± 8mm."
Not sure if that helps?
Cheers
Dave
If you go to the CAMS website they have links to all the required specs, although some of the info is difficult to understand.
See link below and a snippet in regards to engine.
http://www.camsmanua...08_historic.asp
"Engine: the original type and design of the cylinder block as originally used in the make, model and year of the vehicle in question or a CAMS-approved alternative (which will be outlined in the vehicle Specification Sheet) must be employed.
Internal engine components (eg, pistons, piston rings, connecting rods, crankshaft, bearings and gaskets) are free, subject to relevant bore and stroke restrictions for the Group in question (see Group-specific regulations). Main bearing cap supports or girdles may be used. The engine block may be "sleeved" to achieve the correct bore dimensions.
Save that the original number and location must be retained, camshafts are free.
The original type and design of cylinder head casting as originally used in the make, model and year of the vehicle in question, or a CAMS-approved alternative (which will be outlined in the vehicle Specification Sheet) must be employed.
Cylinder head/s may be modified provided such modification is effected only by the removal of metal. Variation in combustion chamber or port design by the addition of material attached by welding, bonding or mechanical fastening systems is not allowed. Welding as required to reclaim damaged cylinder heads is permitted. The insertion or replacement of valve seat inserts is permitted. Cylinder head components not forming part of the cylinder head casting are free.
Note: Save that the original type of drive belt must be retained, engine pulleys are free.
The engine mountings may be replaced by components of alternative design provided that the engine remains in the original position in relation to the body/chassis with a tolerance of ± 8mm."
Not sure if that helps?
Cheers
Dave
#3
_Ned Loh_
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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:38 PM
...Most seemed to have V* id blocks...
V is commodore. What was the next letter?
#4
_sloper35_
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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:12 PM
Its not that easy - have already done this.
CAMS do not publish the individual Spec sheets. In Group Nc each car model has a Specification Sheet that goes with the CAMS Regs and defines what the car can run.
I used V* to illistrate the range of 202/3.3l Commodore blocks that are available for use ie VL is VB -VK 202High Compression VM is VB-VK low , compression. VK is the VK EFI engine.
Some one on the forum running a Group Nc car knows the answer.
CAMS do not publish the individual Spec sheets. In Group Nc each car model has a Specification Sheet that goes with the CAMS Regs and defines what the car can run.
I used V* to illistrate the range of 202/3.3l Commodore blocks that are available for use ie VL is VB -VK 202High Compression VM is VB-VK low , compression. VK is the VK EFI engine.
Some one on the forum running a Group Nc car knows the answer.
#5
_datpsi_
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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:22 PM
We r allowed to run any block be it an early 202 stamped block or a later 3.3 stamped block... Simple reason I'd imagine..try find std bore pre 73 blocks! As for the heads they have to be pre 73 but can go as early as you would like! Best bet if looking at getting into the class (i strongly recommend! ! ! ) get in touch with your states eligibility officer!
As for jp blocks, you would be mad to risk damaging anything like that in serious dedicated race car!
As for jp blocks, you would be mad to risk damaging anything like that in serious dedicated race car!
#6
RallyRed
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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:55 PM
#7
Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:56 PM
Ok I run a torana in Group Nc .I race an LC XU1 (genuine XU1 car)
The best way to find out exactly what is legal and not is to contact one of the eligibility officers if you are considering racing a Torana.
Depending on what state you are located I can put you in contact with the correct person
The EO have access to the Specification sheet for every car
Broadly speaking if you want to race an LJ it can race as an XU1 replica with either a 202 or a 3.3 ltr block, any pre 1973 9 port head, Aussie 4 speed box, banjo diff Disc brakes on Front drum on rear.
Brakes may be mosified to run 4 spot calipers of the period an the rotors can be changed to Ventilated. Most people run Volvo 4 piston calipers grafted onto th e original stub axles and BMW vented rotors fitted to the original hubs. Some run HR vented rotors
The same mods are allowed to an LC but the engine has to be a 186.
The regulations are fairly tight in that they tell you what you are allowed to do if it is not mentioned its not allowed
Wheels 7x 13" Tyres a modern 60 % aspect radial usually Toyo sometimes dunlop
have a look at the HTCAV website or the NSW App J association website and you will find a copy of the full regulation on either one of those.
If you are planning to build a car: dont buy one that is already done it is heaps cheaper. there are a couple for around the $30k price tag and I can tell you it cost every bit of that to build the car.
An engine alone is about $8-15K with the head being about $3.5 - 4.K.
And at $8000 for an engine it is not a front running car. These things run on AVGAS and put out over 220 Hp so it has to be done right or they go bang very easily.
Drop me a line on [email protected] for some more info
There are photos of my car in the garage area
cheers
peter
The best way to find out exactly what is legal and not is to contact one of the eligibility officers if you are considering racing a Torana.
Depending on what state you are located I can put you in contact with the correct person
The EO have access to the Specification sheet for every car
Broadly speaking if you want to race an LJ it can race as an XU1 replica with either a 202 or a 3.3 ltr block, any pre 1973 9 port head, Aussie 4 speed box, banjo diff Disc brakes on Front drum on rear.
Brakes may be mosified to run 4 spot calipers of the period an the rotors can be changed to Ventilated. Most people run Volvo 4 piston calipers grafted onto th e original stub axles and BMW vented rotors fitted to the original hubs. Some run HR vented rotors
The same mods are allowed to an LC but the engine has to be a 186.
The regulations are fairly tight in that they tell you what you are allowed to do if it is not mentioned its not allowed
Wheels 7x 13" Tyres a modern 60 % aspect radial usually Toyo sometimes dunlop
have a look at the HTCAV website or the NSW App J association website and you will find a copy of the full regulation on either one of those.
If you are planning to build a car: dont buy one that is already done it is heaps cheaper. there are a couple for around the $30k price tag and I can tell you it cost every bit of that to build the car.
An engine alone is about $8-15K with the head being about $3.5 - 4.K.
And at $8000 for an engine it is not a front running car. These things run on AVGAS and put out over 220 Hp so it has to be done right or they go bang very easily.
Drop me a line on [email protected] for some more info
There are photos of my car in the garage area
cheers
peter
Edited by piquet, 17 January 2013 - 08:59 PM.
#8
_rob350hatch_
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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:03 PM
do you find that the eligibilty officers cars go faster than others of the same type ???? 
#9
Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:24 PM
Mmaybe not but they are legal and they dont cost you needless entry fees only to be sent home if the car is wrong.Oor a fine from CAMS for entering an illegal race car and those fines are reasonably pricey
Thgere have been instances where cars and drivers have been sent packing from Phillip Island Historics and from a major meeting at Bathurst and the AGP
Thgere have been instances where cars and drivers have been sent packing from Phillip Island Historics and from a major meeting at Bathurst and the AGP
Edited by piquet, 17 January 2013 - 09:25 PM.
#10
Dr Terry
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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:16 PM
Why do they have to be 202/3.3 blocks ?
The later 173/2.85 blocks are virtually identical apart from the ID casting. They have the same bore & main journal diameter.
Dr Terry
The later 173/2.85 blocks are virtually identical apart from the ID casting. They have the same bore & main journal diameter.
Dr Terry
#11
Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:24 PM
There is probably no real reason except for the fact that the spec sheet says that he block has to be a 202 . A freedom to use the later3.3 block was permitted after an application to use the later block was approved by the Historic Eligibility Committee after much investigation and lobbying.
Remember there are heaps of both 202 and 3.3 blocks available so why would we want to use a 173/2850 block? It just complicates the matter even more than it is already
Remember there are heaps of both 202 and 3.3 blocks available so why would we want to use a 173/2850 block? It just complicates the matter even more than it is already
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