Besides not burning your hands when working on a hot motor, im wondering if going to the trouble and cost of insulating the extractors on a street car used for occasional competition is worth the effort.
ive heard that keeping the heat in the exhaust system improves performance as it increases verlosity. It would also have to lower engine bay temps, but dont know anybody to verify this.
Extractor heat rap
Started by
TerrA LX
, Jun 19 2006 09:14 PM
24 replies to this topic
#1
TerrA LX
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 09:14 PM
#2
_draglc_
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 09:50 PM
It does lower temps considerably, which does help, though ive head it makes the extractors brittle over time, how long it takes though i really dont know.
Andrew
Andrew
#3
dattoman
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 10:15 PM
I too have heard of it making the pipes brittle
Or was it rust...... not sure
Either way I had my racecar pipes ceramic coated instead
But I do sell the wrap........ 2" wide...... $6 per meter
Or was it rust...... not sure
Either way I had my racecar pipes ceramic coated instead
But I do sell the wrap........ 2" wide...... $6 per meter
#4
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 10:44 PM
i suppose this problem of hardening the pipes would only be amplified if using stainless?
i assume you only degrease the motor cold with ceramic as it can be brittle when cooled quick?
do you experience notable temp drop with ceramic?
i assume you only degrease the motor cold with ceramic as it can be brittle when cooled quick?
do you experience notable temp drop with ceramic?
#5
dattoman
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 10:51 PM
Bit hard to say in my case
With the engine where it is
With the engine where it is
#6
TerrA LX
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 11:01 PM
yeah looks like you hit the wall pretty hard, pushed the motor right back into the cabin. 
#7
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 11:15 PM
A heat engine is at its most efficient when there is a large temp difference between the combustion temp and the temp on the other side of the exhaust port.
Wrapping the headers will increase the temp inside the pipes and make the engine less efficient, but the difference isnt worth being uncomfortable inside the car or having it melt things under the bonnet.
Wrapping the headers will increase the temp inside the pipes and make the engine less efficient, but the difference isnt worth being uncomfortable inside the car or having it melt things under the bonnet.
#8
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 11:26 PM
the big claim from the manufacture is that horsepower may be increased as insulating will keep the gases hotter for longer increasing verlosity.A heat engine is at its most efficient when there is a large temp difference between the combustion temp and the temp on the other side of the exhaust port.
Wrapping the headers will increase the temp inside the pipes and make the engine less efficient, but the difference isnt worth being uncomfortable inside the car or having it melt things under the bonnet.
not arguing your point but this is the claim.
#9
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 11:45 PM
The thing that annoys me about heat wrap is that if you brush up against it while working on the engine (say if its cool), you get fibres in your skin which itch like crazy... I went through a phase of using it a while back and didnt notice any performance benefit and it seemed that extractors didnt last as long...
#10
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 11:48 PM
btw dattoman, thats an interesting little beast you have there! A sports sedan perhaps?
#11
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Posted 20 June 2006 - 04:07 AM
They do make a difference & are said to make extractors more brittle.Downsides are that they are itchy from the fibres,smell for a longer period if you spill oil on them or get an oil leak & dont look all that neat after a while.They did make a difference on my car in reducing engine bay temps but it would be better to go to the added expense of getting them ceramic coated.
#12
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Posted 20 June 2006 - 07:40 AM
Well, I suppose if the exhaust is hotter it will be less dense and hence need to move faster, perhaps being possible to create more scavenge effect in a some particular exhausts-but this affect also depends on density of the gas in there, not just the speed its moving atthe big claim from the manufacture is that horsepower may be increased as insulating will keep the gases hotter for longer increasing verlosity.A heat engine is at its most efficient when there is a large temp difference between the combustion temp and the temp on the other side of the exhaust port.
Wrapping the headers will increase the temp inside the pipes and make the engine less efficient, but the difference isnt worth being uncomfortable inside the car or having it melt things under the bonnet.
not arguing your point but this is the claim.
Has the manufacturer backed this up with any dyno figs for b4 and after heatwrap?
#13
_UCV80_
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Posted 20 June 2006 - 11:08 AM
I had heatwrap,
everyone told me to take it off because it aparently warps the extractors??
i took it off then everyones like "why did you take it off, its good" ????
Going by looks, it does look better without any heat wrap
everyone told me to take it off because it aparently warps the extractors??
i took it off then everyones like "why did you take it off, its good" ????
Going by looks, it does look better without any heat wrap
#14
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Posted 20 June 2006 - 11:13 AM
Correct answerbtw dattoman, thats an interesting little beast you have there! A sports sedan perhaps?
More pics here Pic page
And more info here My Webpage
#15
_sampearce_
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Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:22 PM
Heat wrap does make your extractors rust!!
Might last a longer if stainless or coated though. I was going to put it on my car but went for HPC ceramic coating instead after finding out wrap made them rust. Its a polished finish which looks great and it supposed to help with flow and temp.
Only $350 for V8 extractors too.
Might last a longer if stainless or coated though. I was going to put it on my car but went for HPC ceramic coating instead after finding out wrap made them rust. Its a polished finish which looks great and it supposed to help with flow and temp.
Only $350 for V8 extractors too.
#16
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Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:34 PM
i had this explained to me while i was at tech skool looking at inductions and exhaust systems. the hotter the exhaust side is the more energy there is actuating on the piston as energy will take the path of least resistance.
i just wanted to add that..
i just wanted to add that..
#17
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Posted 20 June 2006 - 08:52 PM
I think it may depend on the quality of heat wrap you get. Some of em are certainly nasty little fibreglass things that rip and get tatty pretty easy. Thermo Tec was supposed to be the best sort of stuff I think. I've got a mate with it on his Phoneix and it works incredibly, you can virtually touch the extractors when hot. They do tend to look a bit more untidy tho, with hose clamps and tatty edges etc. and bumping them and that sort of thing will loosen and move the wrap etc., perhaps altering its effectiveness.
As for the wrap causing rust, never heard of that before. I would expect a ceramic coating to cause brittleness rather than wrap doing so?? Any performance gain would be negligable IMO, its all for reducing heat as far as I'm concerned. If it gave that much of a performance gain, shouldn't we be seeing NASCAR or V8's using it?
Cheers,
As for the wrap causing rust, never heard of that before. I would expect a ceramic coating to cause brittleness rather than wrap doing so?? Any performance gain would be negligable IMO, its all for reducing heat as far as I'm concerned. If it gave that much of a performance gain, shouldn't we be seeing NASCAR or V8's using it?
Cheers,
#18
TerrA LX
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Posted 20 June 2006 - 09:41 PM
i think its outlawed in these classes due to its abillity to soak up liquid. ie fire hazard.If it gave that much of a performance gain, shouldn't we be seeing NASCAR or V8's using it?
#19
_smcbr6_
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Posted 21 June 2006 - 01:42 PM
It seems to be allowed in some nascar specs but not on the headers, see here:
(5) Thermal wrapping of exhaust pipes is permitted from the header connection rearward, however the header itself may not be wrapped.
Nascar Specs
Cheers,
Shane
(5) Thermal wrapping of exhaust pipes is permitted from the header connection rearward, however the header itself may not be wrapped.
Nascar Specs
Cheers,
Shane
Edited by smcbr6, 21 June 2006 - 01:43 PM.
#20
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Posted 21 June 2006 - 05:57 PM
I'll second the HPC coating, tried the Wrap and didnt like how it looked, made a diff with temp under the bonnet which was the main thing, when the heat wrap wore out, got em HPC'd and never looked back.
The extractors are cooler and the engine sounds like it idles a bit cleaner on my mild 308.
$330 for HPC in Leongatha and they even picked up and delivered em to me, how good can it get.
Cheers
JNR_ATE
The extractors are cooler and the engine sounds like it idles a bit cleaner on my mild 308.
$330 for HPC in Leongatha and they even picked up and delivered em to me, how good can it get.
Cheers
JNR_ATE
#21
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Posted 21 June 2006 - 07:00 PM
what sort of places do HPC coating? and also if you buy new extractors, lets say pacemakers, can you get them HPC coated out of the box?
Cheers Matt
Cheers Matt
#22
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 12:32 PM
Yeah straight out of the box is fine, even used but not fugged.
They dip in chemical solution to clean and prepare the metal anyways.
If your putting collectors on your exhaust system do a dummy fitt and get the exhaust made and tested, then remove and send away so all your extractor gets done, my mate has a LJ GTR and is trying to get his mufflers done aswell, not sure how he faired with it though.
For the price i payed, HPC in leongatha, melb was great and like i said picked up and delivered.
Cheers
JNR_ATE
They dip in chemical solution to clean and prepare the metal anyways.
If your putting collectors on your exhaust system do a dummy fitt and get the exhaust made and tested, then remove and send away so all your extractor gets done, my mate has a LJ GTR and is trying to get his mufflers done aswell, not sure how he faired with it though.
For the price i payed, HPC in leongatha, melb was great and like i said picked up and delivered.
Cheers
JNR_ATE
#23
_sampearce_
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 01:22 PM
Not sure for down in melbourne. But in QLD HPC is the name of the company. They are located in Brendale, Brisbane. They do the high performance ceramic coating, which everone calls "HPC coating". JET-HOT also do a similar coating and offer different colours but not sure where they are located.
It looks basically the same as a polished chrome finish.
Some extractor manufacturers have a similar coating on from new so would not need to be done.
I had this done on some custom extractors for my EH(V8) and was only $350. And considering the price of custom work and even standard extractors its not much when they will last longer.
It looks basically the same as a polished chrome finish.
Some extractor manufacturers have a similar coating on from new so would not need to be done.
I had this done on some custom extractors for my EH(V8) and was only $350. And considering the price of custom work and even standard extractors its not much when they will last longer.
#24
makka
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 02:36 PM
jet hot are in Castlemaine Vic. run by John Lynch i think.
#25
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 05:44 PM
Yeah, Jet Hot in Castlemaine. They picked up my extractors today. $320 for the v8 torana extractors, plus $1 per bolt, so about $350 in the end I think. They quote a 78 hr (?) turnaround, not including travel time. They do the Hi-Lustre finish, plus blue, black and grey in varying temp protection.
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