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Reconditioned/ modified Head for Red 6

Started by _jklumpp_ , Jun 21 2006 02:43 PM

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19 replies to this topic

#1 _jklumpp_

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 02:43 PM

As some will know from my other recent posts, I have decided to rebuild my head...well, not mine, but the one on the car :spoton:

I have been speaking to a local head builder/ engine builder, who seems to have a lot of knowledge on Red Heads (again, the ones on the car), and has built & raced a few red motors in the past.

He has proposed the following;

He has a second hand bare head - originally a yella terra casting = $150
General service of the head (cleaning, machining, assembly, ect) = $175
New Stainless steel valves = $300 (about $120 less if i went for tuftrided valves, but he recomends the Stainless)
New Valve guides = $132
New hardened valve seats = $210
Crack Test = $65
Double Valve Springs = $130
Minor porting/ touching up of ports & bowls, flowing the head = $230

So all up, it will cost me around $1400 for what will essentially be a fully reconditioned performance head -Does this sound reasonable?

The car will be used for Hillclimbs & Sprints, and I prefer to "do it properly, do it once".... but I was expecting to spend probably about 1/2 this amount.....though the only thing I can see in the list above that could be argued to be excessive, is the Stainless valves.....

Opinions please?

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#2 FastEHHolden

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 05:07 PM

I would kindly decline his offer......let him down gently......

don't say:

" FCUK OFF YOUR DREAMIN'"

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#3 _jklumpp_

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 05:39 PM

for what reason?

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#4 _lxhatch_jim_

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 05:46 PM

It's a fair few dollars. It would have to be a large HP/high stress application motor to justify that sort of expense. Depends on what you want but stainless valves sound a little hardcore.

Might be better to buy a second-hand recently recoditioned one or at least shop around for a few prices.

Cheers
Jim

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#5 _jklumpp_

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 06:23 PM

Yes, it's a lot of money...like I said, much more than I was anticipating...but when you break it down:
$150 for a head is not too bad... especially when it's condition is guaranteed. I might pick one up on ebay for less, but what's to say that I'm not going to find that it cracked or something when I get it? I've been watching yella terra heads on Ebay, and they're going for $200-$380 mark (with valves & springs - but again, no gaurantees that these won't be stuffed and need replacing anyway), plus freight (not cheap on something as heavy as a head).
$175 for head service - again, not cheap, but seems to be around the mark being charged
$300 for Valves - like I said, this is probably the area that seems to be overkill.. but when you break it down, for $10 per valve difference, is it worth NOT doing?
$132 for valve guides - that's $11 per guide, which again seems to be around the mark.
$210 for hardened valve seats - $35 per seat, again around the mark.
$65 crack test - in the scheme of things, cheap insurance.
$130 double valve springs - This is maybe double the cost of the crow 'performance' springs I had priced...but I am told there are different types of crow performance springs...he did say that this may be less, maybe in the $80-$130 depending on springs.
$230 for the porting/ flowing/ etc...?

So this is my dilema... there is nothing really that I would say "that's unreasonable" or "I don't need that" in order to get the price down.

There's a striped down yella terra head on ebay at the moment, already over $200 with 3 days to go, plus $60 freight. I reckon this head will probably go for $300-350. Add to that $210 for hardened valve seats, $200 for a service & crack test, possibly $132 for valve guides ...I'd be looking at $950 odd assuming (& hoping) that the valves & springs are good, and with no additional port work or flow testing.

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#6 _dave720gtr_

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 06:54 PM

yer but you can buy a new Y/T head for $1200 so y bother building one :huh:

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#7 superfly_GTR

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 07:15 PM

I would use a factory holden head to start with ie:149/161 for high comp ratio, and then modify that with larger ports and so on.

I say this because the Yella Terra heads are a softer casting, Yella Terra did buy and use holdens moulds but in their casting process they didnt use as much pig iron and because of this the metal is softer and can damage easier.

Cheers Matt

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#8 _munro_

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 07:44 PM

As some will know from my other recent posts, I have decided to rebuild my head...well, not mine, but the one on the car

I have been speaking to a local head builder/ engine builder, who seems to have a lot of knowledge on Red Heads (again, the ones on the car), and has built & raced a few red motors in the past.

He has proposed the following;

He has a second hand bare head - originally a yella terra casting = $150
General service of the head (cleaning, machining, assembly, ect) = $175
New Stainless steel valves = $300 (about $120 less if i went for tuftrided valves, but he recomends the Stainless)
New Valve guides = $132
New hardened valve seats = $210
Crack Test = $65
Double Valve Springs = $130
Minor porting/ touching up of ports & bowls, flowing the head = $230

So all up, it will cost me around $1400 for what will essentially be a fully reconditioned performance head -Does this sound reasonable?

The car will be used for Hillclimbs & Sprints, and I prefer to "do it properly, do it once".... but I was expecting to spend probably about 1/2 this amount.....though the only thing I can see in the list above that could be argued to be excessive, is the Stainless valves.....

Opinions please?

if you do the work to the rest of the motor to warrant this job you'll also need roller rockers $500
if you'r patient you'll find a complete head with rockers for this amount
then get it serviced
you'll end up with the same head just alot cheaper

:spoton:

tom

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#9 _jklumpp_

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 01:33 PM

yer but you can buy a new Y/T head for $1200 so y bother building one

Yella Terra has not been making them for some time now, so buying a new one is not an option.

if you do the work to the rest of the motor to warrant this job you'll also need roller rockers $500

I already have the roller rockers, and for that matter the triple 45 webers to utilise the additional flow.

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#10 _draglc_

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 01:14 PM

Mate if your justifying the price, and your happy with it, then go for it.
Its not hard though to pick up a head already done. There was an alloy 12 port YT head with roller rockers at the banyo swap for $1200..

Look around is all i suggest.

A1

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#11 _Keithy's_UC_

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 04:11 PM

I had all the work done, plus more, on my 179 Head, and spent $1100. If you could bargain a bit, tell him you'll pay $1200 and i would call it a deal. Of course you have the price of the head included in the deal there, so knock $150 off $1400 and you get $1250... Not too bad, it seems fair to me. But the price of the head is a bit extreme... I paid $160 for my motor, head included... I stick with $1200...

Keith

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#12 boomfunk

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 06:14 PM

are you willing to travel to sydney to get the work done??

i do no some one in sydney, he is old school and no's his stuff, was notrious for some very very wicked engines

pm me if you interested..

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#13 _munro_

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 01:33 AM

going slightly off topic
does that dude in townsville still do the twin ohc sutups for the holden reds

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#14 _82911_

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 04:32 PM

Hey Boomfunk....
Does he race an F/gas or G/gas commodore?

Cheers Greg..

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#15 red6

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 01:11 PM

If you go the route superfly gtr suggested and use a factory casting instead of a yt casting because of the increased strength then i have a 138 red head here which would be a good base pm me if interested.

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#16 _jklumpp_

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 01:56 PM

I went & saw the guy on Saturday, and found out a bit more.
The head is a Holden casting, and is one of the high compression heads (149 + 161 I think?) that has been decompressioned - ie. the combustion chamber has been machined out to take the compression back to where it should be for a 186 type head - He tells me this was a common mod that Yella Terra did to these heads.
The stainless valves are a nice looking bit of gear...swirl polished, and thinner around the base (valve end) of the stem to reduce interference to flow. They're made from 1 piece of stainless billet, whereas the steel ones are 2 piece with the valve fusion welded to the shaft.

Keith, was that price you paid including the stainless valves & double valve springs?

Boomfunk, I'd be willing to take it to Sydney if the price was right....It's about 1.5hrs travel for me, depending on where in sydney he is.

The problem I now have is that he says the head I have is a 202 head, with the screw in roller rockers...where as the head he has had stud mounted rockers, and he tells me the head can't be modified to suit the rockers, as once the stud is removed, the hole is too big to be tapped to suit the thread of the rockers....So it looks like I'm in for new roller rockers....which means I will go for adjustable ones, So i can fit a solid cam later one....

The hole in my pocket just seems to get bigger! :cry:

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#17 _draglc_

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 01:10 PM

Thats why its sometimes smarter to buy one already done..

Ive seen YT heads with adjustable roller rockers go on ebay for $4-500..

Depends whether your willing to wait or not.

A1

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#18 _[BOTTLEDUP]_

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 04:38 PM

For the work he has quoted the prices are honest. Working where I do I find it a little offensive when people try and haggle on the cost of labour... Parts ok I can understand but a better job takes longer, and costs more accordingly.

$230 for portwork and a Flowtest (with a valid flow chart) is a good deal, make sure he does a before and after report.

Like everyone else on here has said you could/can get cheaper second hand, but you are then buying an unknown quantity.

I spoke to Yella Terra last week and they still had a very small number of the original Red motor heads in stock (4-5 only) and they'd set you back approx $980. However, IMHO getting your head rebuilt as you have described above would be a better product.

-Dave.

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#19 _uglybob_

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 07:07 PM

over in perth i had my red head rebuild and a port polish job for $700 (i no thats alot but it bench flows 280). if i had to get new valves and springs i would hav gone the 12 port yella terra head for an extra 300. i wouldnt even bother paying all that money on the old red head wen you can pay the same for a brand new head which is gonna be better anyway.