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Engine Dies!! 350Holley/CainManifold Related

Started by _JBird_ , Jul 03 2006 04:06 PM

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27 replies to this topic

#1 _JBird_

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 04:06 PM

Hey guys. I've got an LJ with a 202, 350Holley on a Cain Manifold. My problem seems to be fuel related.

It has been sitting at the panel beaters for about 3 months, I got it back a few days ago. I drove it home from there (about 2 minutes drive). Today I tried to start it again to go get a blue slip. Battery is fine. The fuel bowl vent started spurting fuel upwards (like a geyser) a little while after my engine started. It runs for about 10seconds before it shudders and dies. gtrboy (Shane) came around to have a look and we adjusted the fuel level to be at the right level. Seemed to do nothing. Tried to figure out whats wrong but to no avail. He reckons because its been sitting still for too long somethings stuck inside.

Basically my car can't idle if I keep revving it on start up (constant 1750rpm) itll stay alive, dropping it below that it starts spurting fuel upwards.

Any help/diagrams/rants would be appreciated. (Thanks Shane for comin round :clap:

)
-James

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#2 _torana_

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 05:34 PM

the vent is there is to help equalize pressures inside and outside of your carb. If something blocks in there ( jets ) fuel may come out the vents. Sounds like somthing is in there or panel beaters dust has clogged something up. Do you have a good fuel cap? Otherwise your tank may be full of bog and sanding dust as well. Looks like you will have to open your carb up ( 350's are pretty easy ) and check it out. My guess is solidified bog/paint dust. Let us know how you go.

cheers julian

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#3 _munro_

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 06:13 PM

check the needle and seat

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#4 _Yella SLuR_

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 06:47 PM

Sounds float related, which governs the needle and seat and admission of fuel to the fuel bowl. Could be a hole in the float.

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#5 TerrA LX

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 06:58 PM

yeah bad needle n seat or sunk float.

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#6 _Pete_

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 08:13 PM

I'd put my money on a stuck needle and seat.

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#7 _JBird_

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 10:26 PM

Thanks. Now that its been diagnosed. How do I find the needle and seat. I don't want to break anything.

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#8 TerrA LX

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 10:33 PM

the needle n seat is under the nut/screw on the carb bowl, but if you dont know that it micht be hard to explain remove n install/set up proceedure, have u got a mate handy to help.

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#9 _JBird_

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 10:46 PM

Ive never opened one up before so I have no idea what it looks like inside. Yeah I do, but we were hoping someone on this forum had scans from a book on Holley carbs or something.

Well remove the fuel bowl and check it out.

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#10 _Herne_

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 10:52 PM

Have you had a look at this site?

http://www.nardek.com.au/Holley.htm

Cheers
Herne

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#11 _JBird_

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 10:55 PM

Thanks. At least I know what Ill be looking for lol

Edited by JBird, 03 July 2006 - 10:56 PM.

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#12 TerrA LX

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 10:56 PM

http://www.holley.co...0Carburetor.pdf

holley.com might have other pages you need aswell.

http://www.holley.co...ice/Library.asp

Edited by ALX76, 03 July 2006 - 10:57 PM.

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#13 _JBird_

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 11:05 PM

Yeah I was looking at their website and they don't really have much on the needle and seat. They're more focussed on things like float level adjustment (which didnt do solve the problem) and idle settings.

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#14 TerrA LX

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 11:36 PM

replace the needle n seat then ^^^^^^^^

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#15 _wombat_

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Posted 04 July 2006 - 01:39 AM

unleaded fuel tends to go off after 5 or 6 weeks and turn into a gummy sludge that will block up jets and all sorts of things.

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#16 TerrA LX

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Posted 04 July 2006 - 01:41 AM

unleaded fuel tends to go off after 5 or 6 weeks and turn into a gummy sludge that will block up jets and all sorts of things.

are u serious

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#17 _wombat_

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Posted 04 July 2006 - 05:26 AM

yep, i have had it happen,mainly on small motors(lawn mowers etc) but ive had it mentioned to me several times from other mechanics.(im a mechanic but try my hardest to not work in the industry). also if you guys over east have that 10% methanol fuel the methanol goes of as well. thats why dray racers that use it straight drain fuel system and run engines dry to stop injectors blocking with the crap.

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#18 _wombat_

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Posted 04 July 2006 - 05:29 AM

and if the needle and set was stuck how would the fuel get into the bowl to blow out the vent, wont run on idle (as idle jets are blocked?) but will run at revs(on secondary circuit)

Edited by wombat, 04 July 2006 - 05:30 AM.

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#19 Dr Terry

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Posted 04 July 2006 - 10:18 AM

Hi Wombet.

The needle & seat usually sticks open, allowing the float bowl to flood, this is very common on Holleys.

Dr Terry

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#20 Dr Terry

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Posted 04 July 2006 - 10:22 AM

Hi again Wombat

Your point on E10 & ethanol mixes, you said "thats why dray racers that use it straight drain fuel system and run engines dry to stop injectors blocking with the crap. "
I know it's a typo & you meant drag racers, but drag racers do not use ethanol, they use METHANOL, a very distant relative. Ethanol is actually metholated spirits, a by-product of the sugar industry & a good cheap renewable fuel that burns clean & for the last 4 years has had much bad press for no known reason. Common sense is now prevailing & its use is more common, with E10 now being recommended by the Australian auto makers, much to the disappointment of the petrol companies. METHANOL on the other hand is highly corrosive & cannot be left in carbies or fuel tanks for any length of time, which is why it's drained & flushed after races in drag cars etc.

Although we do have problems with unleaded fuels as far as evaporation goes, this was much worse with LRP, which is no longer sold. I think the problem in lawn mowers is that they are left for long periods & many probably still have remnants of LRP in them.

Dr Terry.

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#21 _bones_

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Posted 04 July 2006 - 12:35 PM

I would check the rubber "O" ring that is fitted around the outside of the needle and seat assy. They go square and hard. No amount of adjustment will fix it.
Good luck,
Bones

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#22 Tiny

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Posted 04 July 2006 - 03:09 PM

I must admit that Wombat is right, I've had deposits left from two types of unleaded fuel ( premium unleaded) in my carby.

Due to my car sitting for long lengths of time and not being run, THe fuel evaporates out of the bowls and leaves a residue.
The first was a white poweder left from optimax fuel. THe powder was all though the carby and took 2 days of "acid" bathing to remove mostly,

The second was a dark brownish gummy material that was from mobil 8000.

I now use BP ultimate and have had little or no trouble, but i also still use Mobil if needed.

Defintiely sounds like a needle and seat, You can buy replacements very easily and by removing the screw and nut assembly off the top of the bowl you can then replace teh whole needle and seat assembly!

Good luck!

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#23 _JBird_

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Posted 04 July 2006 - 04:27 PM

Thanks for all the help guys :spoton:

Shane came over today and the needle and seat was taken out (several times) and put back in, drove around trying to find a new gasket for it because it started leaking once my engine got fired back up. Well it runs perfect now after a bit of adjusting to get the levels just right.

Mustve gotten gunked up I suppose. Serves me right for not driving it enough ... lol

Big thanks to Shane for wasting his day off :clap:

I drove it down to the blue slip place and I "only" have to get my demister to work (possibly just use hairdryers), get the blinker canceller thingy to work and last but not least make sure the key doesnt come out of the ignition barrel after its been turned on.

-James

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#24 _Pete_

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Posted 04 July 2006 - 10:09 PM

Every early holden i've owned has an ignition barrel that allows the key to be removed while the car is on..........I always thought it was just a Holden design flaw, whats the fix a new key or barrel etc??

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#25 TerrA LX

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Posted 04 July 2006 - 10:27 PM

Every early holden i've owned has an ignition barrel that allows the key to be removed while the car is on..........I always thought it was just a Holden design flaw, whats the fix a new key or barrel etc??

yes, it is actually a defect to have the key removed whilst not in the lock position.