Javascript Disabled Detected

You currently have javascript disabled. Several functions may not work. Please re-enable javascript to access full functionality.

Painting Acrylic Lacquer - is this the right start?

Started by _j.e.d._ , Jan 28 2014 04:08 PM

Next

Please log in to reply

28 replies to this topic

#1 _j.e.d._

Guests

Posted 28 January 2014 - 04:08 PM

Hey all - I'll be painting my car in acrylic lacquer when I finally get to that stage, but I just wanted to make sure my paint supplier is pointing me in the right direction to start with because what I thought I needed was not what I was supplied (they have the PPG Dulon range which I'm happy with as well).

I'll be sand blasting the body in sections, then using deoxidine on the bare steel, then etch priming the whole car before I start on the body repairs.

This is what I was supplied as an etch primer:

Is this etch primer ok? Can you use body filler over this primer or does it need to be an epoxy etch instead? I mentioned all this to the supplier & they even called their main supplier to confirm that this is what to use as part of the process.

Please let me know I'm heading in the right direction, I don't really want to over complicate things for myself

Edited by j.e.d., 28 January 2014 - 04:08 PM.

Back to top

#2 _Bomber Watson_

Guests

Posted 28 January 2014 - 04:58 PM

Nope, cant put bog over that.

Cheers.

Back to top

#3 madtoranajzedded

Sir ask alot

Members
2,893 posts

Name:Maz
Location:Southern Tasmania
Car:72 LJ SL SEDAN.
Joined: 30-September 13

Posted 28 January 2014 - 05:00 PM

always thought etch is for straight panels that need no further bodyworks,epoxy is the way to go me thinks

epoxy the lot bud

Edited by madtoranajzedded, 28 January 2014 - 05:04 PM.

Back to top

#4 jd lj

Forum Fixture

Members
2,119 posts

Name:James D
Location:in the shed
Car:LJ
Joined: 03-December 10

Posted 28 January 2014 - 06:40 PM

Doesn't bog have to go onto bare metal if you want it to stay on there in the long run?

That's what I've been told anyway.

Back to top

#5 _Bomber Watson_

Guests

Posted 28 January 2014 - 07:00 PM

No, it jas to go over epoxy if you want it to stay in there for the long run.

Bare metal is acceptable if you do it right but not as good.

Back to top

#6 madtoranajzedded

Sir ask alot

Members
2,893 posts

Name:Maz
Location:Southern Tasmania
Car:72 LJ SL SEDAN.
Joined: 30-September 13

Posted 28 January 2014 - 07:17 PM

agree +bog is hygroscopic so stops bog going crumbly,bog sticks to epoxy stronger than bare metal,

Back to top

#7 _j.e.d._

Guests

Posted 28 January 2014 - 08:38 PM

Thanks DJ & Maz, that's all I needed to know. Nice & simple

I've been reading the PPG product sheets & I think it's starting to make sense (a little bit). This link is quite handy that has all the product sheets in one area

http://www.amcap.com...spx?menuid=1035

So confirming the process (roughly speaking that is):

1. Sand blast

2. Deoxidine

3. PPG 2K Epoxy Urethane Primer 410-48248

4. Body work/filler

5. Re-coat with 2K Epoxy Urethane Primer over repairs

6. PPG 2K Polyester Spray Filler (468 Line) or PPG 2K Hifill Primer Filler 467-34490 (x amount of coats & sanding)

7. Top coat

8. Clear coat

Now this is where I get confused - the product info sheets specify that for my # 7 stage to use 2K Solid colour (468 line) but I was wanting the top coat in acrylic lacquer so I could do it myself. So what am I missing here? Is there something else I need to do between # 6 and # 7 to be able to use the acrylic lacquer? Or should I just go 2K all the way (which I think means I kinda won't be able to do the whole job myself). Feels like I'm looking at it all wrong :banghead:

If someone could edit my list & show me where I've gone wrong that'd be greatly appreciated

EDIT: I found the product info sheet in the above link for the acrylic lacquer (Dulon AAA Solid Colour Tinter 526 Line), but when looking into that it recommends it go over any PPG acrylic lacquer primer which I can't find any info on. Thinking out loud - do I need some kind of isolator coating between the 2K primer filler & the acrylic lacquer primer? or am I just talking to much crap & should shut the frOck up & let an expert show me the error of my ways!

Back to top

#8 _Bomber Watson_

Guests

Posted 28 January 2014 - 08:52 PM

Yeah 410-48248 looks prfect reading the tech data sheet.

Not where it says "if left more than eight hours, product should be sanded with 180-240 then recoated with itself.

I would pay attention to this personally, in your above post you puretty well have it right, but after your happy with the bog work and reseal with epoxy for the last time, follow it straight up with either the polyester or urethane high build.

Note, Polyesters are not suitable for spraying directly over, infact Bog is polyester, So polyester spray putty's are literally runny bog. Ideally you would reseal over this (if you need to use it) with yet again more epoxy then go the urethane high build or surfacer over that.

Acrylic laquer should go over a urethane high build or surfacer just fine. I"d reccommend doing as much as the filling as possible with 2k products as they dont cause nearly as many issues.

WHat you could do is after the final bog work and the last coat of epoxy, hit it with polyester spray putty, then once thats flattened off hit that with acrylic primer surfacer, then acrylic top coat over that....

Million ways to skin a cat, depends how far into it you wanna go.

Cheers.

Back to top

#9 _Bomber Watson_

Guests

Posted 28 January 2014 - 08:54 PM

I should prolly point out i have no direct experience spraying Acrylic Lacquers over 2k primers, as i've never actually tried it, but several guys on here have had good luck doing it, Dirtbag does it all the time.

I'll do it that way one day, when i get something i wish to spray in Lacquer again....Need to find me a nice Kwaka z900 or something to restore to original and do it to that....

Cheers.

Edited by Bomber Watson, 28 January 2014 - 08:55 PM.

Back to top

#10 madtoranajzedded

Sir ask alot

Members
2,893 posts

Name:Maz
Location:Southern Tasmania
Car:72 LJ SL SEDAN.
Joined: 30-September 13

Posted 28 January 2014 - 11:06 PM

hey bomber is that bullshit about polyester that its porous and that it should be dry sanded only,the reason i say that because its a high fill and goes on like bog ,and there isnt any sealer being mentioned to stop solvents moving down from the topcoats to the metal,so im thinking the surfacer does the job as sealer ....am i on the money,

Back to top

#11 _j.e.d._

Guests

Posted 29 January 2014 - 03:44 AM

Thanks again DJ, this is the clarification I needed to keep it as simple & straight forward as possible for me. I completely understand about there being many ways to do this - I just needed a good clear direction which you've given me, & now I feel a lot more confident about the process. Cheers mate :spoton:

Back to top

#12 _Bomber Watson_

Guests

Posted 29 January 2014 - 06:59 AM

Maz, na its on the money with it being pourous.

Back to top

#13 myss427

Forum Fixture

Members
1,636 posts

Location:Canberra
Car:427 hatch, CV8 Monaro, Ve SSV ute. Was part owner A9X sedan until he sold it without telling me!
Joined: 17-November 05

View Garage

Posted 29 January 2014 - 08:40 AM

I sprayed Acylic over 2k high build and what I noticed was the acylic chips very easy. Was told afterwards its best to put on a couple of coats of acrylic undercoat to make it adhear better to the 2k.

Back to top

#14 71xu1

Dave

Members
1,275 posts

Location:Western Australia
Car:LC GTR XU1
Joined: 24-August 06

Posted 29 January 2014 - 10:33 AM

I sprayed Acylic over 2k high build and what I noticed was the acylic chips very easy. Was told afterwards its best to put on a couple of coats of acrylic undercoat to make it adhear better to the 2k.

First you have to rub down the 2k high build with 320 wet to provide a good key for the acrylic primer or else you are just doing the same thing as putting acrylic colour on and will get poor adhesion. As acrylic will not melt into 2k. PS then you will need to rub down the acrylic primer with 600 before applying colour coats.

Back to top

#15 _j.e.d._

Guests

Posted 29 January 2014 - 10:47 AM

This is good to know, cheers

Back to top

#16 madtoranajzedded

Sir ask alot

Members
2,893 posts

Name:Maz
Location:Southern Tasmania
Car:72 LJ SL SEDAN.
Joined: 30-September 13

Posted 29 January 2014 - 11:14 AM

i hope thats urethane your rubbing back with wetndry,as stated high build polyester is porous and must be dry sanded,

i agree with putting a surfacer or sealer over high build or urethane as this prevents chipping and helps hold topcoats to under coats

Back to top

#17 _cool72_

Guests

Posted 16 April 2014 - 04:51 PM

Hey Guy's, I have just had my doors blasted and primed in 1K etch primer. I have been replacing rusted sections and gone over the welds with a rattle can etch primer.
Now my question is, should I now go over everything with the 2K etch primer before applying the make up ( bog )
Thanks Glen

Back to top

#18 _Bomber Watson_

Guests

Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:19 PM

I would, but do not go over the rattle can stuff, it will likely fry straight up.

Wipe the rattle can stuff off with some thinners first, then give it all a good sand with some 180-240.

Cheers.

Back to top

#19 madtoranajzedded

Sir ask alot

Members
2,893 posts

Name:Maz
Location:Southern Tasmania
Car:72 LJ SL SEDAN.
Joined: 30-September 13

Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:36 PM

didnt think you can put bog over etch.epoxy yes

Back to top

#20 _Bomber Watson_

Guests

Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:17 PM

Ah frOck, to many threads on the same topic making my eyes blur....

Your correct Maz.

Scratch everything i said.

Cheers.

Back to top

#21 _cool72_

Guests

Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:54 PM

Sorry to do this to you Bomber, but way too many threads as you said and they seem to be bit hard follow.
Soo where do I go next.
I can help with other stuff, but I really want ( need ) to get this bit right.
Thanks
Glen

Back to top

#22 madtoranajzedded

Sir ask alot

Members
2,893 posts

Name:Maz
Location:Southern Tasmania
Car:72 LJ SL SEDAN.
Joined: 30-September 13

Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:11 PM

lol.how did these seperate topics come together,my view would be to go the epoxy way so that you can put the bog over it then another coat over top to seal it in, then you can do your high build etc.

Back to top

#23 _Bomber Watson_

Guests

Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:21 PM

Ok, i would sand everything off and use some 2k EPOXY, not 2k etch.

THen bog over that.

Cheers.

Back to top

#24 _LS1 Taxi_

Guests

Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:24 PM

Maybe if you get a minute do a sticky bomber about 2k paint product & methods...and one about acrylic product and methods as it seems these topics come up a fair bit...

Or....

:google:

Back to top

#25 _Bomber Watson_

Guests

Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:42 PM

I did start typing one up in wordpad a while ago going over the basics.

I had about 300 pages done, so about a third done, and my old computer crashed with no backup.

Havnt bothered to start again.

One day.