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308 With a O-Ringed block using Fel-Pro Gasket?

Started by _Viper_ , Apr 25 2014 08:34 PM

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14 replies to this topic

#1 _Viper_

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:34 PM

Hey guys, I found I had oil weeping down the sides of my block, Looked to be coming from the head gasket on both banks... Was doing a Leak down test and it confirmed it as you could see tiny bubbles coming out between the head and block. So off with the heads.

I had ordered gaskets before hand in preperation and got some Fel-Pro 1076-1 which is a "normal" looking gasket with "pre-flattened steel wire rings"

So I got the heads off and found the engine builder had fitted Copper head gaskets, Ok took them off to find Wire rings in the block.

Will the Fel-Pro gasket work fine with these O-rings or do I need to get a gasket designed to be used with them?

Cheers in advance.

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#2 dattoman

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Name:Neil
Location:Perth Western Australia
Car:LX SS , 76 Cadillac , 3 x dattos
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Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:38 PM

Copper head gaskets can he re-annealed and re-used

Looks like the block was set up for some boost

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#3 _Viper_

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 09:02 PM

Im not keen on using a Copper Gasket again if its going to leak? Ive always heard there is issues with them leaking and this was fitted by the engine builder and the car went back to him to be re-tensioned etc so seems like thats as good as its going to get? Both sides were the same...

In saying that there is probly a good reason why the builder choose to use a copper head gasket?

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#4 dattoman

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Name:Neil
Location:Perth Western Australia
Car:LX SS , 76 Cadillac , 3 x dattos
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Posted 25 April 2014 - 10:13 PM

Copper gaskets are great

If you spray them with Hylomar and retention them now and then

I guess you could remove the orings and use your stock gasket

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#5 _Viper_

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 10:53 PM

After doing abit of reading up on them they do sound good with the heat transfer capabilities and strength, But everything ive read said they are great for sealing combustion chambers with O-rings but not so great at sealing oil/water. But yep they recommend using Hylomar. There was some sort of white sealant on my block/heads but it seems the only spot that didnt have it is where it was leaking.

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#6 _hutch_

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 08:17 AM

Might seem a dumb question but...........how do ya get oil down in the circled areas? Isn't there only water galleries around them,oil comes up to the overhead gear up the valve push rods so there is no oil under pressure going through the head gasket,or is coming out of the combustion chamber?

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#7 _Viper_

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 09:32 AM

Only thing I can think of is that it's coming down the head bolt holes

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#8 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 01:41 PM

If theres enough of a gap around the bottom face of the head bolt and the mating face on the head to let oil under no pressure down then you probably dont have a very nice purchase....

Cheers.

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#9 _Viper_

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 02:07 PM

"dont have a very nice purchase" ??? Do you mean the bolts/nuts are not sitting square?

I dont understand it either, Original Holden EFI heads, ARP head studs with the flat ground washers, I didnt think anything would be able to get down there, neither did the builder obviously but it was weeping down both sides of the block from the headgasket, no oil above the head (from rocker covers etc) still found it hard to believe until I had the leak down tester on there and could actually see tiny bubbles coming out....

Which would make you think its the O-ring seal leaking but then where is the oil coming from? the leak down test was on a cold motor tho with no oil in the plug hole so there was pressure getting past the rings and into the crank case too

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#10 _bpi_

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 02:35 PM

Copper head gaskets work well with the 'O' ringed block like yours. We use a 3 Bond product to seal around the water and oil jackets, sounds like thats what your engine builder has used as it is white like you have described. As to why you have oil in that spot, not sure on that one?

Cheers Ben

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#11 _Viper_

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 07:19 PM

One thing I noticed is that all the gaps for the O-rings are in this area, A couple of the rings have larger gaps then others... so possible cause of the leak into the combustion chamber... but why leak oil?

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#12 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 09:17 PM

THe O rings wont be the issue. So long as they sit slightly proud of the block there doing there job regardless of how wide the grove is.

And yes, you got my point on the purchase, I find it hard to believe oil under no pressure would leak past a ground washer on a machined surface tensioned to speck.....

Merely pointed that out so you might think a bit harder about looking elsewhere for the issue.

By my reconing the only spot oil could be coming from in the circled areas is the bores.....WAs she a breather/smoker?

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#13 _Viper_

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 11:06 PM

Yea I agree I dont think oil would be coming down the bolt holes but is one of the only spots where there is oil in the area.

THe O rings wont be the issue. So long as they sit slightly proud of the block there doing there job regardless of how wide the grove is.

Yea wasnt talking about the width of the groove, but the width in the gap at the end of the wire (like a piston ring gap) Most are Very tight but a couple had about 0.5mm gap

Considering there was an actual oil spray pattern on the extractors in line with the head gasket it must have been coming out under pressure which Im concluding must have been coming from the combustion chamber and past the small gaps in the O-ring wire's.

Has the stock PCV system and not noticed any smoke, altho the Intake ports of the manifold/heads feel greasy as if it has a very very thin coating of oil.... The motor is Very fresh... have probly done about 1000km on it, if that... Only reason im touching it now is I had to pull the K-frame out to place some bushes so its very easy to do atm.