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Skaife's Pedal Work

Started by _Viper_ , Jul 23 2006 06:14 PM

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#1 _Viper_

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 06:14 PM

hey all, well was just watching the V8's this arvo, and they did a incar view also showing the pedals... and was just wondering how come when coming out of a cnr Mark would stab the throttle quickly a couple of times before actually accelerating...

just curious thats all :)

#2 Litre8

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 06:21 PM

Sure he's not coming into the corner, stabbing the throttle when he's downshifting???

#3 _Viper_

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 06:44 PM

nah, he heel'toed going into the cnr, but just as he takes off he again everytime he gave it a quick double tap then progressively accelerated out of the cnr :s

#4 _82911_

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 07:38 PM

The only reason i can think of is he was trying to shake the rear end loose? Induce a bit of oversteer to get the car to tighten up in the corner.... You sometimes do that in a car with a spool if there isn't a curb to hit!

Cheers Greg..

#5 _Yella SLuR_

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 09:05 PM

You can also do it in Torries on hill climbs designed with 4 bangers tight turning circles in mind.

#6 _82911_

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 09:14 PM

Thinks of Wakefield park hey Yella.....
You just about need the handbrake at that place!

Cheers Greg..

#7 _RpM_

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 09:37 PM

Coming INTO a corner, most racers stab thier brakes a few times quickly to make sure they've got some... maybe Mark's lost the plot, and has to make sure the accelerator is still working ?? :P

#8 _pallbag_

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 06:49 AM

I also noticed he would use the clutch once while up-shifting/accelerating when first coming out of corners, then just slammed thru the rest of the gears without clutching ? Why use the clutch for the first shift and not the rest ?

#9 _revmaniac_

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 07:52 AM

I also noticed he would use the clutch once while up-shifting/accelerating when first coming out of corners, then just slammed thru the rest of the gears without clutching ? Why use the clutch for the first shift and not the rest ?

in the lower gears at lower road speed it is beneficial to use the clutch on the gear change to avoid blazing the tyres on the change......if he flat shifted from first to second while still turning out of a corner i could almost guarentee he'd end up facing the other way.....when using the clutch you can add a lil more progression the the delivery of power

#10 REDA9X

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 07:57 AM

He uses the clutch from 2nd to third in case he miss shifts on that change, which is easy to do. If you do that, you can easily over rev the engine and blow it to pieces. I'm sure you will all say, no that can't happen, they are rev limited, however, trust me, you can do it with up shifts if you miss the gear and on downshifts if you drop the clutch too fast at too high revs. I've seen a printout of one that went off the scale at 9000RPM.

#11 _82911_

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 08:37 AM

Red is on the right track with the 2-3 shift ....
But the reason MS would use the clutch on the 2-3 shift is because these boxes are setup with a "strain gauge" which is linked to the ignition cut circuit in the ECU. What this does is momentarily kills the engine when enough strain is placed on the shifter handle. ie: pull hard ignition cuts out for a split second allowing the next gear to be selected without lifting the throttle at all.
Remember they are dogring transmission and NOT synchro so they shift in a split second, but you still must somehow remove the load from them.
It takes longer to do a 2-3 shift than say 1-2 or a 5-6 so MS is just being safe and ensuring that the gear is fully engaged and he doesn't have to rush or risk "falling off the shift cut"
The same thing can be achieved by "banging the limiter" on the upshift....
As for overrevving on a missed upshift????
How you do that is beyond me, the ecu is in control and sets maximum RPM on the way up the revrange.
On the way down however is a different story! It is very easy to pick up a gear too low by selecting the wrong gate... and then the egine revs are being controled by the cars road speed, not the ECU.....
The result......
usually, if the speed is high enough and the gear low enough... KABOOM..... valve train in the sump!

Cheers Greg..

#12 REDA9X

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 08:57 AM

You can overrev them, if you miss the gear and slam the foot to the floor, remember there is no load on the engine in this case, it only takes a split second. The rev limiter is there to stop the engine producing power over the rev limit, so if the drive train is connected (load), the engine won't rev beyond the limit. A mate of mine works at HRT and used to build the gearboxes before he left a few years ago, he's back there now.

#13 _82911_

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 09:52 AM

Red... I use this gearchange system on my Walky....
as for the overrev.... that's not what the data from my data logger would suggest!
Must be a Very old system that your referring to.

Cheers Greg..

#14 355LX

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 11:17 AM

In regards to the original post referring to the stabbing of the throttle when accelerating out of the corner, this is a technique also used by drviers such as Schumacher and other F-1 drivers. I can't remember the theory exactly, but it is something along the lines of pushing to or even slightly past the limit of breaking traction, getting off and back on the throttle constantly, resulting in faster acceleration than trying to gradually increase throttle evenly in an attempt to maintain traction. It was explained to me by an ex-F1 engineer and made perfect sense at the time.

Dave

#15 _Yella SLuR_

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 11:44 AM

Thinks of Wakefield park hey Yella.....
You just about need the handbrake at that place!

Cheers Greg..

That's the one Greg. Also, not really having driven the track before and trying to post a good time. Arrived at the tight hairpin at about 80 km/h. Firm brake, mash accelerator, flick.

#16 _82911_

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 12:08 PM

What Dave is talking about is a combination of what i mentioned earlier about getting a bit of oversteer. Remember V8 supertaxis run spools so they tend to push (understeer) to help tighten up the cars line in the corner. AND.... sometimes it is easier to control the rear of the car on the outer edge of it's traction circle (it's complicated) if you find the limit first then work back from there instead of trying to accelate to the limit... Also keep in mind that if the car is in an oversteering mode, even a slight one, then the tyres are being forced to grip both in a lateral plane as well as trying to accelerate the car out of the turn (traction circle)
I know it's a lot of jargon , but there really is no easy way to explain it!
Sometimes it is just simpler to hit a curb, get 1 rear wheel in the air, which unlocks the rear so the car turns better (like a go kart)

Cheers greg..

#17 REDA9X

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 12:11 PM

Red... I use this gearchange system on my Walky....
as for the overrev.... that's not what the data from my data logger would suggest!
Must be a Very old system that your referring to.

Cheers Greg..

The printout I saw was from the Perkins 95 Bathurst winner after practice at Oran Park in 97 or 98, so yeah reasonably old. However, I'm told yes, you can still physically over rev them for a split second in the same manner

#18 REDA9X

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 12:12 PM

Red... I use this gearchange  system on my Walky....
as for the overrev.... that's not what the data from my data logger would suggest!
Must be a Very old system that your referring to.

Cheers Greg..

The printout I saw was from the Perkins 95 Bathurst winner after practice at Oran Park in 97 or 98, so yeah reasonably old. However, I'm told yes, you can still physically over rev them for a split second in the same manner. I also remember Neil Crompton refering to this on one of the RPM shows, or at one of the races, and it was Skaife they were watching at the time.

#19 _hrt1and2_

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 12:57 PM

i always thought that they stab the throttle once maybe twice out the cornor to straighten the nose up, therefor a giving the car a smother exit of the corner. He may have also used to much throttle and had to get out of it.
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