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The bad oil change.


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#1 rexy

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 11:30 PM

Just what everyone wants to find attached to their magnetic drain plug.

Attached File  image.jpg   332.72K   31 downloads

#2 Litre8

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 11:35 PM

Intestines from a deceased roller rocker or roller lifter?



#3 wot179

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 02:04 AM

It could be worse.

They could be conrods.

#4 LXCHEV

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 06:22 AM

Interesting what you find, was the engine still running well?

#5 _LS1 Hatch_

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 07:06 AM

It could be worse.

 

 

 

Could have found them in your poop....



#6 _grumpy 026_

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 07:29 AM

Magnetic plugs are good, early warning signs can often save you from more damage if you kept going.
A strip down job next.


Jeff, change your diet, eat more spinach if you are needing Iron !

G.

#7 rexy

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 10:32 AM

I hadn't noticed a change but it's so damn loud it's hard to hear a new noise.
The culprit was this:
Attached File  image.jpg   186.48K   22 downloads

I am less worried about the needles than I am about the tiny metal fragments from the rocker body.

Always fun pulling things down for an autopsy.

#8 _mumbo_

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 10:36 AM

Needle rollers can do major damage you should see my piston skerts and bores in my big block .

If the engine is swinging hard when they let go can destroy rods and crank 



#9 rexy

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 04:15 PM

I am hoping I have got fairly lucky. It was a real suprise find on draining the oil. Motor only has about 1500 km on it.
Most of the other rockers feel a bit crunchy in their movement. They have all been replaced on reassembly with COMP cams ones.

The other bad suprise was when I pulled the roller lifters out to give them the once over. The roller ends looked fine but three of the pushrods cups looked like this:Attached File  image.jpg   195.01K   24 downloads

These are the super duper short travel COMP cams hyd roller lifters. They claim to have never seen a failure of this type.

#10 macdou

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 04:16 PM

I hadn't noticed a change but it's so damn loud it's hard to hear a new noise.
The culprit was this:
image.jpg

I am less worried about the needles than I am about the tiny metal fragments from the rocker body.

Always fun pulling things down for an autopsy.


What brand of rocket Rexy? How are the rest of your rockers. If one lets go I would be nervous about the rest unless it's an obvious fault.

#11 S pack

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 04:41 PM

Maybe you've got some valve spring coil bind going on there Rexy?



#12 rexy

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 07:13 PM

What brand of rocket Rexy? How are the rest of your rockers. If one lets go I would be nervous about the rest unless it's an obvious fault.


The dead ones were PEP stainless steel. Allegedly made in the USA but probably subcontracted to China...
Coil bind was suggested by a contact of mine. Didn't seem to be an issue when I was checking during re assembly.

#13 S pack

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 07:49 PM

Did you prime the new lifters before installation?

Also remember that hydraulic lifters have ample opportunity to leak down when turning an engine over by hand so coil bind may not be apparent as maximum valve lift is unobtainable until the engine is running.



#14 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 07:55 PM

Did you prime the new lifters before installation?

Also remember that hydraulic lifters have ample opportunity to leak down when turning an engine over by hand so coil bind may not be apparent as maximum valve lift is unobtainable until the engine is running.

 

Which is why you check for coil bind (as well as rocker to stud, retainer to guide and everything else) with a light spring.



#15 S pack

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 08:00 PM

Which is why you check for coil bind (as well as rocker to stud, retainer to guide and everything else) with a light spring.

Which is why you build engines and I don't. :)



#16 rexy

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 05:53 PM

Six month update.
Have done about 1500 km on it since the reassembly. Oil change today showed a few tiny metal fragments that look like leftover bits of the dead rocker.

Attached File  image.jpg   176.52K   17 downloads

So have filled it back up with oil and we shall see how we go.

Confession time.
Both this change and the initial fill after reassembly I have added the Nulon E 30 Teflon treatment. Absolutely no proof it will save anything but made me feel better.

#17 RallyRed

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 07:20 PM

Hi Rexy,

Did you establish what caused the failure?...or are you thinking just poor quality China style?

 

I'm only asking as we are currently putting an engine back in, and any learnin's are good learnin's.

Thanks



#18 rexy

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 09:01 PM

I showed the bits to the guys at Competition Engines.
The opinion was the rocker failure was likely the result of poor quality.
No one is sure of what caused the lifter cracking. My preferred theory is the apprentice at the engine builders was let loose and bottomed them out while setting the initial lash.

#19 rexy

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 06:32 PM

Found a few more little bits changing the oil today.

Attached File  image.jpeg   506.58K   12 downloads

After a bit of a rub.

Attached File  image.jpeg   411.68K   14 downloads

The needles were well crusted with oxidised metal so I am hopefull they are leftovers from the initial injury. The little fragments are pretty non specific but probably compatible with residual bits of the dead rocker casing.

Dunno how worried to be to be honest. Engine sounds the same so I have filled it back up with oil and we shall see.
Fingers crossed.

#20 RallyRed

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 09:14 PM

cant be too many bits left in there?.....have you been using a can opener on the filters as well?......I'm assuming this stuff you are finding is all sump stuff



#21 LS1 Taxi

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 10:56 AM

You've been using the same rag for over a year!
Awesome

#22 _LS1 Hatch_

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 11:36 AM

You've been using the same rag for over a year!
Awesome

 

 

Waste not, want not. :D



#23 rexy

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 08:50 PM

Another couple of thousand Kay’s, another oil change.



Attached File  BE707045-AAA8-4D6A-B996-DAC3E1ACCC6D.jpeg   201.67K   14 downloads

Still got the same rag... well it’s brother.

Few more little odds and ends on the magnetic drain plug. Engine sounds the same.

Have put Penrite racing 15 in it this time. It’s a 15-50 High zinc full synthetic. Their technical help line was excellent as was Nulons.

Engine has had a few oils in it. Came with Joe Gibbs break in oil in it. Used the Brad Penn 10-40 and 20-50 semi synthetics followed by Lucas 20-50 racing oil.

We shall see how this goes.

#24 Shiney005

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 10:08 AM

If the stainless steel in those rockers was any good, the broken bits wouldn't stick to the magnet.



#25 rexy

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 04:31 PM

So for comparison this is what was on the magnetic plug when I changed the oil in the yellow car today.



Attached File  D843F3A0-D0B4-4B9E-9E8C-60F4319F9BD2.jpeg   511.89K   14 downloads

Tiny bit of fur on the magnet with no discrete metal fragments.
The engine is a Holden V8 built more than 15 years ago. Previously owned by at least two part time drag racers who used it regularly and hard. Bought it from a guy who thought it was rooted. He was wrong.... Still going strong!




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