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Starter Motor hitting flywheel

Started by _Viper_ , Aug 29 2015 07:25 PM

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16 replies to this topic

#1 _Viper_

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 07:25 PM

Hey guys, been awhile... long weekend coming up so want to do a bunch on the Torana...

Info first:

LH 4-Door

304 Block (355 stroker)

VS Starter motor

I had starter motor issues one day where the starter was spinning but not throwing out... Happened to be across the road from another workshop so rather then get a tilt tray home I pushed it in there and got them to replace the starter....

Got the car home and battery was being dodgy I chucked the shits and didnt look at it again for months. So today got a new battery and gave it a go but am finding that 80% of the time the starter throws out but just hits the flywheel and not actually going past and into the teeth... If I turn the motor over a touch by hand and try again it starts no probs...

So I figured maybe they had not shimmed it properly... Got under there, Pulled the starter and the wear marks on the teeth did indeed seem to be quite deep.... I didnt actually have any more shims here but I used a couple washers slightly thicker then the current shim pack, same thing... added a shim to the washer, still the same, added another shim and still the same...

Starting to think the car just doesnt want to be finished, But before I rip the motor out and fit a RB25 I thought Id ask if anyone knows what Might be up? the teeth on the starter are tapered at the tips and the gear should be trying to spin as it comes out towards the flywheel but yeh... Possibly just a faulty starter and I should grab another?

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#2 Bigfella237

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 07:34 PM

G'day Clint, yeah I'd be very suspect of the starter they fitted if it's never done this before?

So was your original starter actually the problem or was it the battery all along? Did you keep the old unit after that workshop swapped it out?

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#3 _jimjet61_

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 10:03 PM

I don't condone any starter motor, for what ever reason hitting a flywheel, And ask you all to speak up and stop this!!!

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#4 _jimjet61_

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 10:06 PM

May be able to help out when sober, sorry!!

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#5 TerrA LX

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 08:42 AM

I am starting to think there maybe two different starters, one for aussie blocks and one for turbo blocks...

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#6 _LS1 Taxi_

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 08:54 AM

^^ I tend to agree that something fishy is going on.

We are seeing more and more issues with starters not engaging correctly and sometimes chewing out ring gears.

What sort of flexplate are you running Clint? Holden or aftermarket? Brand?

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#7 mick_in_oz

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 09:02 AM

Nope, one size fits all, weather it be gear reduction or non-gear reduction. Flywheel genuine?

Seems nearly every problem people post about starter trouble on a Holden V8 is due to non genuine parts being used.

I have seen pics of starter shims for Holden V8s, but never needed one, were these a genuine Holden part or an aftermarket item?

I'd see if you can manually pry out the gear on the starter and see if you can check its engagement. If it has a good fit, then it has to be the shape of the gear on the starter or the shape of the gear on the flywheel, perhaps a very tired ring gear?

Might also be worth giving the starter a bit of WD spray in case its gone sticky from sitting about, my mini did that once.

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#8 TerrA LX

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 09:51 AM

Maybe it is a combination of starter and flex plate between aussie and turbo blocks.

OK who is going to start a register or something with some measurements we can compare with some aussie to turbo starter/flex plate combos and aftermarket combos?

I am naturally thinking the first red motors would have to be different in some respect to the last black motors with over 30yrs of refinement.

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#9 _Viper_

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 10:39 AM

My original starter was a CVR, not 100% sure what one the workshop used. The teeth on the flexplate are mint. not sure on brand but it was aftermarket.. I levered the gear of the starter out to check engagement and it all seems fine and can fit a paperclip between the root of the starters gear and the tip of the flexplates teeth like the CVR instructions say (I dont have the instructions for the new starter)

The taper on the end of the starters gear teeth is quite steep and it does not go all the way to the edge of the tooth and there is a flat on the end about 1-1.5mm wide, This seemed to be abit of a design flaw to me but ive not looked at a heap of other starters to compare.

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#10 Ice

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 11:25 AM

Put a stanard holden starter motor on it and go from there

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#11 UCgazman

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 12:14 PM

I agree 100% with Mick-in-oz ^^, I've worked on a lot of Holden motors over the years and know that all 253, 308, 304 starters are interchangeable. And I've never had meshing problems with any of them (well unless they're old and worn), the only thing I've never done is used aftermarket flexplates - never seen the need over the standard ones? Never had to 'shim' a starter either, seems like a bandaid fix for shitty parts that dont fit...

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#12 ls2lxhatch

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 03:53 PM

It may be that the starter motor soleniod is not getting sufficient current or voltage from the ignition switch to engage when the teeth are not lined up.

You can test by bypassing the ignition switch with a remote start switch which is just a wire with a start switch connected to the solenoid and the battery or the battery lead on the starter.

$_57.JPG

If that solves the problem then you can wire in an auxiliary starter motor relay.

http://www.kingswood...-valiant/KRelay

http://autofix.com.a...ter-motor-relay

Edited by ls2lxhatch, 30 August 2015 - 04:05 PM.

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#13 ls2lxhatch

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 04:12 PM

The starter motor auxiliary relay will not make the starter motor turn faster as Kingswood Country claims. It will only affect the amps and voltage supplied to the solenoid, it has no effect on the amps/voltage supplied to the starter motor.

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#14 EunUCh

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 04:17 PM

Picture of an original starter in engaged position.

SM1.JPG 183.11K 6 downloads

below,bolted on in engaged position.

the amount of "tooth" exposed (end travel) when looking parallel down the flex plate gear was just the "engagement ramps" on the end of starter gear,the clearance between starter gear and ring gear was a bit had to measure but comes in around 10+ thou,give or take a bit of rust and wear.

SM2.JPG 204.52K 4 downloads

Edited by EunUCh, 30 August 2015 - 04:22 PM.

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#15 mick_in_oz

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 07:38 PM

ls2lxhatch has a good point.

I had an intermittent starting issue for 3 years before I cured it, the solution was a "booster" relay. I did everything I could think of, cleaning and adjusting the ignition switch, same with the neutral safety switch, renewed the engine harness, swapped the starter for another original part, trouble was it was intermittent and might only play up one in every 20 times the car was used. My final thought on it was something causing a high resistance in maybe the fuse block, but could never prove it.

The booster relay helps by providing a good 12V to the solenoid so that it has full power to be able to pull in correctly.

I was also blaming the previous 20 years off adding fuel pumps, stereo's, thermo fans, ignition systems, etc, so decided to divorce all of the accessories or add on's to run from their own dedicated electrical system, in preparation for the EFI it now has.