has anyone ever bought a replacement set of front retractable seat belts for a LH. I got some through rare spares and according to the chart i looked at and the chart on the back of the box they would fit, but they were wrong.
Just wondering if anyone has a supplier i could look too for some.
thanks.
nibbsy
seat belts
Started by
_nibbsy_
, Aug 16 2006 04:20 PM
23 replies to this topic
#2
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 21 August 2006 - 12:57 AM
It appears the only options available are to get existing fittings rewebbed, which there was a thread about somewhere.
I take it the holes on the rarespares versions were too small to fit the bolts through? When the say they are the right size, they are talking about the lengths of the belts, needs expensive modifications to the mounting threads on pillars and floor to install them........youd reckon rares could do better than selling you that.
I take it the holes on the rarespares versions were too small to fit the bolts through? When the say they are the right size, they are talking about the lengths of the belts, needs expensive modifications to the mounting threads on pillars and floor to install them........youd reckon rares could do better than selling you that.
#3
Tiny
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Posted 21 August 2006 - 04:02 PM
Nibbsy: Are the reels in good condition?
If so, there is a company that i used in WA called "Seatbelt Solutions" who re-webbed my reels in the monaro using all my hardware and even added extra webbing and it was all less than $100 ea side!
Highly reccomend them, but i dont think they repair reels if theyre buggered!
Good luck!
If so, there is a company that i used in WA called "Seatbelt Solutions" who re-webbed my reels in the monaro using all my hardware and even added extra webbing and it was all less than $100 ea side!
Highly reccomend them, but i dont think they repair reels if theyre buggered!
Good luck!
#4
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Posted 21 August 2006 - 04:04 PM
I belive that Rare Spares only Sell KLIPPAN replacement belts and ive spoken with klippan's customer service centre who were most UNHELPFUL!
I wouldnt blame rares directly, I dont know if there is anywhere else you can get them from!
Cheers
I wouldnt blame rares directly, I dont know if there is anywhere else you can get them from!
Cheers
#5
_73LJWhiteSL_
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Posted 21 August 2006 - 04:25 PM
I did buy Klippan seat belts to bolt in my LJ as well, but it seems they don't really know the Toranas very well. My kit for a LC/J came with stalks in it, which incorrect as the buckle ends up sticking into your ribs. In the end the Autobarn that i brought them from swapped the buckles for shorter non stalk ones (Not before they accused me of mounting my front seatbelts wrong 
They reckoned there should have been a bolt down the side of the tunnel not the one on top).
That said i went back to the orginal (adjustable) seatbelts as i got a whole set out of the parts car.
So your not the only one to have trouble with the Kilppan ones.
Steve
They reckoned there should have been a bolt down the side of the tunnel not the one on top).That said i went back to the orginal (adjustable) seatbelts as i got a whole set out of the parts car.
So your not the only one to have trouble with the Kilppan ones.
Steve
Edited by 73LJWhiteSL, 21 August 2006 - 04:26 PM.
#6
Toranavista
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Posted 21 August 2006 - 04:36 PM
I have fitted the Klippans to an LH. They required some drilling to fit.
#7
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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:11 PM
how much is 'some drilling though'?
is it that instead of a 9/16 hole there is a metric whole, like a 13mm or something stupid, or are you taking away a quantity of steel to get the bolt through?
just curious as i need some new ones, my reels are stuffed
cheers
dave
is it that instead of a 9/16 hole there is a metric whole, like a 13mm or something stupid, or are you taking away a quantity of steel to get the bolt through?
just curious as i need some new ones, my reels are stuffed
cheers
dave
#8
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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:46 PM
I'm not sure where I got this from but the part number used to exist. It is for a Klippan Mounting Kit that is supposed to fix the different bolts sizes and how they mount in a Torana. I a Klippan Part Number - K2887.
If you go to the Rares Spares website and search for K2887 all it shows is a nyloc nut and a plate. Thought there would have been a bit more to it.
You can also get different length stalks and it pays to measure the length of the old one before you hand over the $$s. I bought a set of front belts for my SS and installed them the way you are apparently not supposed to but that was before I heard about this other mounting kit. I the belts from Auto Barn and they had to order them in for me. I only agreed to pay as long as the stalks were very close to what the originals were. Even with the dodgy mod, I still think new is better that 30 or more year old belts - especially if they came from a wreck or wreckers. Having the ends fitted professionally to new belts is an option as Tiny said.
This link below is to Autoliv which I found by searching Google. The search was for Klippan and that is all I found. And no mounting kit.
http://www.autolivaf...eplacement2.asp
If you go to the Rares Spares website and search for K2887 all it shows is a nyloc nut and a plate. Thought there would have been a bit more to it.
You can also get different length stalks and it pays to measure the length of the old one before you hand over the $$s. I bought a set of front belts for my SS and installed them the way you are apparently not supposed to but that was before I heard about this other mounting kit. I the belts from Auto Barn and they had to order them in for me. I only agreed to pay as long as the stalks were very close to what the originals were. Even with the dodgy mod, I still think new is better that 30 or more year old belts - especially if they came from a wreck or wreckers. Having the ends fitted professionally to new belts is an option as Tiny said.
This link below is to Autoliv which I found by searching Google. The search was for Klippan and that is all I found. And no mounting kit.
http://www.autolivaf...eplacement2.asp
#9
_BrettLH253_
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Posted 22 August 2006 - 04:12 PM
I used the Klippan ones for the whole car, a "Little bit" of drilling did the trick no probs so that the original bolts would fit
#10
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Posted 22 August 2006 - 09:38 PM
What you have done ^ Brett may be okay, but maybe not......certainly you have made the car unroadworthy.......whether any one picks it up is not the point.
You have modified a key structural component of the belt, apart from making it obviously less strong by removing metal, stresses can be put on the metal from the drilling process itself.......which could cause failure when forces of an accident are applied. Only an engineer and metallurgist could tell you for sure, but certainly no certified installer would modify the belts in that way.
You have modified a key structural component of the belt, apart from making it obviously less strong by removing metal, stresses can be put on the metal from the drilling process itself.......which could cause failure when forces of an accident are applied. Only an engineer and metallurgist could tell you for sure, but certainly no certified installer would modify the belts in that way.
#11
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Posted 22 August 2006 - 09:59 PM
i just bought new belts for the hatch and encountered the same problem, the manufacturers choose to ignore this problem and dont intend to do anything about it, so you have 2 options
1. keep the old rooted non retracting seatbelts
2. take your chances and drill the holes out
i'll be drilling the holes, its only a bees d*&k worth
but non the less, you pay your money and get an inferior product.......
my 2 cents
1. keep the old rooted non retracting seatbelts
2. take your chances and drill the holes out
i'll be drilling the holes, its only a bees d*&k worth
but non the less, you pay your money and get an inferior product.......
my 2 cents
#12
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Posted 22 August 2006 - 10:20 PM
Maybe the MTA needs to hear about this with a letter from all concerned, does the MTA still even exist.
it seems very enfair that people are trying to makr their cars safer by investing i such a product as new seat belts for their specific model only to have to modify them to fit.
if the metal at the drill site is of the same standard as the origional for the the bolt then i dont think clamping it in a vice and drilling it out 1mm with a sharp drill bit will weaken it.
go stupid with the wrong size or heat it up with a blunt drill will change the working stress of the mount.
i cant believe these bastards dont want to get such a secnificant product right.
do safe and sound make any, i know they make 4 pointers.
it seems very enfair that people are trying to makr their cars safer by investing i such a product as new seat belts for their specific model only to have to modify them to fit.
if the metal at the drill site is of the same standard as the origional for the the bolt then i dont think clamping it in a vice and drilling it out 1mm with a sharp drill bit will weaken it.
go stupid with the wrong size or heat it up with a blunt drill will change the working stress of the mount.
i cant believe these bastards dont want to get such a secnificant product right.
do safe and sound make any, i know they make 4 pointers.
#13
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Posted 22 August 2006 - 10:45 PM
You only have to watch a few "aircraft investigation" episodes to see how seemingly minor imperfections can cause flaws in metal. Certainly one would need to xray any fitting that has been modified to be sure. If a climbing Karabiner needs to be xrayed for flaws if its dropped a couple of meters, then im sure the act of overdrilling could too.
There are 2 other options,
I. get them rewebbed
2. get 2nd hand ones - okay, how do you tell they havent been in an accident.......measure their length.......they stretch irreversibly in an accident and will look stressed.........you need to know what length they are supposed to be though!
There are 2 other options,
I. get them rewebbed
2. get 2nd hand ones - okay, how do you tell they havent been in an accident.......measure their length.......they stretch irreversibly in an accident and will look stressed.........you need to know what length they are supposed to be though!
#14
Tiny
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Posted 22 August 2006 - 10:57 PM
I'm defintiely with Devils On this one.. I've seen a guy try to drill heat treated metal ( My CRS drop spindles!!!) even though it expressly states not to!! the dropkick...
Ive also been on a building site where the favco tower crane nearly fell 32 storeys into sussex st because the concretors ( well steelfixers) welded reinforcing mesh to the 4 high tensile hold down bolts of teh crane... 3 of them snapped during a load...
Be extra careful what you drill.. its not always teh ammount of metal you remove but what else you do to the metal ( heating etc etc.).
I'd DEFINITELY be sending negative feedback to klippan as the manufacturer and if theyre any kind of good company they will take it on board and fix the faulty goods!
Ive also been on a building site where the favco tower crane nearly fell 32 storeys into sussex st because the concretors ( well steelfixers) welded reinforcing mesh to the 4 high tensile hold down bolts of teh crane... 3 of them snapped during a load...
Be extra careful what you drill.. its not always teh ammount of metal you remove but what else you do to the metal ( heating etc etc.).
I'd DEFINITELY be sending negative feedback to klippan as the manufacturer and if theyre any kind of good company they will take it on board and fix the faulty goods!
#15
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Posted 22 August 2006 - 11:40 PM
i watch aircraft investigations as well and your right minor things can ruin everything.......2nd hand seatbelts, im on my third one (on the drivers side) as for rewebbing i would prefer that but my reels are rooted and im not going to waste money buying old belts with good reals from a wreckers (if there is such a thing)....
sending negative feedback is a good idea tiny but it will have very limited if no affect.........
john
sending negative feedback is a good idea tiny but it will have very limited if no affect.........
john
#16
_BrettLH253_
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Posted 23 August 2006 - 10:31 AM
The only part I am talking about drilling, and it was rediculously fractional, is the part responsible for the swing of the seatbelt. I dont think, specially with the tension against it, that it would rip from the mount. Its very hard to explain but from the way weve installed it I dont think it has harmed at all. I even showed the engineer as had to engineer the seats, they are under one code, and he was more than happy
You also cant use the original parts other than the bolts because of the extremely large difference in hole size on the belt piece. I wanted new ones and got them and after spending $500 for a full new set I wasnt about to not use them. ALSO, Im a massive fan of airport investigation and I think a comparison between aircraft metal and part alteration and car part alteration is not applicable, they are totally different metals with MUCH different stress levels and applications. I see the point though
Thats a damn good show though, scares the shit out of you
You also cant use the original parts other than the bolts because of the extremely large difference in hole size on the belt piece. I wanted new ones and got them and after spending $500 for a full new set I wasnt about to not use them. ALSO, Im a massive fan of airport investigation and I think a comparison between aircraft metal and part alteration and car part alteration is not applicable, they are totally different metals with MUCH different stress levels and applications. I see the point though
Thats a damn good show though, scares the shit out of you
#17
Tiny
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Posted 23 August 2006 - 11:08 AM
John: That's the worry mate.. When a manufacturer buries their head in the sand and wont fix a product that doesnt work, what hope do we have!!
Cheers!
Cheers!
#18
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Posted 23 August 2006 - 01:35 PM
One wonders why they dont care, they would sell many more......or perhaps realise many are simply drilling them out and dont care about that either.......if they get hauled to court over a failed fitting and its revealed the hole is overdrilled, they cant be responsible.
I did try as Tiny has, to talk to Klippan about the situation over 10 years ago and only got a generic, Klippan does not approve of and can not be responsible for any alterations to its product and reccommends that the product is installed by licensed fitters.
I rang several fitters, they are aware of the prob and say the mounting points all have to be modified so the non drilled out fitting brackets can be accommodated, at considerable cost(especially on the pillar).....they arent prepared to put their arses on the line either by taking short cuts here.
Brett the problem with "I dont think it would have harmed it etc" is you simply "dont know for sure".
I did try as Tiny has, to talk to Klippan about the situation over 10 years ago and only got a generic, Klippan does not approve of and can not be responsible for any alterations to its product and reccommends that the product is installed by licensed fitters.
I rang several fitters, they are aware of the prob and say the mounting points all have to be modified so the non drilled out fitting brackets can be accommodated, at considerable cost(especially on the pillar).....they arent prepared to put their arses on the line either by taking short cuts here.
Brett the problem with "I dont think it would have harmed it etc" is you simply "dont know for sure".
#20
StephenSLR
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Posted 08 September 2006 - 12:52 PM
The issue of the crap Klippan seat belts has struck a chord with many concerned.Maybe the MTA needs to hear about this with a letter from all concerned, does the MTA still even exist.
I think a petition to the RTA, MTA or wherever is a worthy cause.
Who wants to get this thing started?
s
#21
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Posted 08 September 2006 - 01:11 PM
Only market forces can get it going, no manufacturer is obliged to provide parts(safety parts or not) to keep old cars on the road.
However, there may a case to answer for by Klippan in listing their product as fitting the Torana.
Whos gonna get it going, ive got other fish to fry.......... and a good collection of belts Ive gathered(since realising this prob) over the last 10 years or so to last me a few years yet.
However, there may a case to answer for by Klippan in listing their product as fitting the Torana.
Whos gonna get it going, ive got other fish to fry.......... and a good collection of belts Ive gathered(since realising this prob) over the last 10 years or so to last me a few years yet.
#22
Toranamat69
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Posted 08 September 2006 - 05:04 PM
I agree this is poor on Klippan's part. The fix is simple, they just couldn;t be bothered for the volume they sell by the looks.
Do Klippan actually list these as applicable for a Torana? or is it the resalers like rares etc?
If they do, by the trade practices act as a manufacturer they have a responsibility that the product is 'fit for service'.
If they have been made aware it is a common mod to drill them out and did nothing to rectify it, I'd say they would be the ones forking out the millions in compensation if someone died and it all went to $hit in the courts.
Remember the prosecutors go after those with the $$$ when looking for compo, not the individual.
The reality must be there has not been a problem to date so they are getting away with it and don't care.
I was in the same dillemma with mine, I didn't want 30 Y/O crud so I did the mod and got them approved as part of my mod plate process. At least I have someone else to hide behind
It is so long ago I did that I can;t recall what I had to do exactly.
It would pay to check with your approval guy before gatting stuck into them with the drill though.
M@
Do Klippan actually list these as applicable for a Torana? or is it the resalers like rares etc?
If they do, by the trade practices act as a manufacturer they have a responsibility that the product is 'fit for service'.
If they have been made aware it is a common mod to drill them out and did nothing to rectify it, I'd say they would be the ones forking out the millions in compensation if someone died and it all went to $hit in the courts.
Remember the prosecutors go after those with the $$$ when looking for compo, not the individual.
The reality must be there has not been a problem to date so they are getting away with it and don't care.
I was in the same dillemma with mine, I didn't want 30 Y/O crud so I did the mod and got them approved as part of my mod plate process. At least I have someone else to hide behind
It is so long ago I did that I can;t recall what I had to do exactly.It would pay to check with your approval guy before gatting stuck into them with the drill though.
M@
#23
Tiny
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Posted 09 September 2006 - 09:34 AM
Wise Words Matt!
Thanks!
Thanks!
#24
StephenSLR
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Posted 11 September 2006 - 12:10 PM
If they did then wouldn't it be an issue for the ACCC if they falsely advertised their product or the product didn't deliver what it claims?Do Klippan actually list these as applicable for a Torana?
s
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