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Confirming rear main or sump leak?


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#1 _Viper_

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 09:41 AM

Hey all.

 

So trying to fix all my leaks... I have a oil leak and not sure how to confirm if its the sump or rear main. Obviously just the sump gasket is alot easier/quicker job but I dont want to pull the motor out and replace the sump gasket only and have it still leak!

 

Usually Id say while the engine is out just do both anyway but its a Holden 355 with the rope seal. Engine was built but a pro performance engine builder, all aftermarket parts so im not sure what the bolt stretch or torque settings would be so id prefer not to mess with it. Altho I wouldnt mind a look at the bearings just to see everything is ok. but the engine has only done maybe 1000km or so.

 

So ive cleaned everything down, gone for abit of a drive and put it up on the hoist... Small leak near the front left which is definitely sump gasket but the main leak is right at the rear below the crank. but from what I can see it looks like its coming out of the sump, but obviously the rear main is higher so if its that it would run down over the sump and look like that anyway...

 

But ive tried to use abit of paper towel and stick it up past the sump onto the rear main area and its coming back pretty dry (but there is next to no room so its hard to tell for sure)

 

The engine had sat not running for very long stretches at a time (over a year), do the rear mains "dry up" if not used and its a 90% chance it is the rear main?

 

Also ive seen people use a "sneaky pete" and replace the rear main with the crank in place... anyone had success with that? ive no doubt id be able to get it swapped over but not confident it wouldnt still leak.

 

My other idea is once the engine is out to use my compressor and pressurize the crank case with a few psi and turn the motor over by hand and use a bubble formula to confirm it is leaking from the rear main? is this a horrible idea? anyone know how much pressure would be in a crankcase under normal use?

 

Sorry long post, thanks if you got this far!



#2 dron

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 02:11 PM

The Holden engine book has instruction to grind up a brass drift,

Use it to compress the existing rope seal into the block with the crank in place,

Form the upper rope into the lower cap and then cut a section of the formed rope to fit into the end of the upper seal grove that has had the existing piece of rope now compressed.

 

You then fit the lower rope allowing for the correct seal compression and reinstall the rear cap. I have used this to reseal several rope sealed rear mains on tractors and other heavy equipment over the years with a good success rate. I never have managed to get a seal right using a sneaky peat, It is almost impossible to get enough compression on the new upper section for it to work.

 

Saves having to remove the crank.

 

I have removed all main caps and just lifted the crank, Formed the seal in the lower cap and then fitted it to the upper without removing any big end caps in past as well.

 

As for where the leak is You may be able to see if it has been leaking from the sump once the engine is out and flywheel removed but I think I would do both. It is always a pain in doing things twice.



#3 S pack

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 02:43 PM

If your paper towel is dry after pushing up to contact the crank and cap at the rear seal area then the seal is probably fine.



#4 rexy

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 04:55 PM

Engine still in the car?

Tighten all the sump bolts and retest.

Changing a sump gasket with the engine still in the car is easily done. Worth doing before pulling the whole motor.

#5 TerrA LX

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 06:04 PM

^ What he said...



#6 _Viper_

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 07:30 PM

I actually "need" to change the head gaskets too as I fit the heads about a year ago and the motor had O-ring'd block so copper head gaskets.... I think I used hylomar but its leaking along the head gasket seam on both sides.

Been told to use Threebond 1211 light coat on both sides of the gasket and it will seal for sure... anyone concur?

 

I was also going to pull the gearbox as it has a few leaks but after my clean down and inspection it seams like its mainly from the Speedo drive and trans pan (easily done in car)

 

I was considering some Wynns stop leak in the coolant system as the leaks in the head gaskets are tiny (more like weeps) We use it all the time in the forklifts at work and it works great (usually damage to the radiator core) but yea not too sure about using it on a good motor I care about.

http://www.wynns.net...iator-stop-leak

 

So maybe good idea to replace sump gasket in car, see if that stops the leak... if so then Stop leak in coolant system and fix box leaks in car and wont have to pull motor and box!



#7 Rockoz

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 10:09 AM

For the coolant leaks I have seen really good results with a particular type.

Cant think of the name of it but the stuff looks like it has copper dust as the main ingredient.

Mate had a VT Commodore with a cracked head.

Bottle of this stuff every 6 months for 3 years he had the car.

Another bloke with a Ford used it for years too.

Havent come across anything that works as well as this stuff before



#8 LC-GTR-1969

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 08:39 AM

You will always get some weeping of coolant on copper head gaskets. IronTide or chemiweld will resolve the weep. 

 

I would never bother trying to change a main seal with crank in place but thats me. Not saying its not possible, but the frustration and likely hood that it would still fail would be fairly high if I were doing it. Engine out for main seal. Sump can be done in car (annoying but doable). 



#9 _Viper_

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 10:47 AM

So went to look at doing the sump in the car today, But I have a Hi-energy sump and there is barely any room so do not think its possible... I did go around and nip up all the bolts tho, some were actually quite loose especially around the rear area! got a couple other things to do then will go for a drive and see if its helped.



#10 LC-GTR-1969

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 01:13 PM

Not sure about the sump you have, but if you can drop the sump, you might have about 3/4 of an inch where you can slide in the new gasket- spray adhesive can help to align things etc... not easy but its usually 'possible'. 



#11 LC-GTR-1969

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 01:15 PM

sorry forgot to mention that this wouldnt be feasible using a one piece gasket.. the 4 piece gaskets make it possible but still difficult



#12 rexy

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 05:12 PM

I have a high energy sump on mine in an LX. I can get the sump off and out of the car without removing the engine.
Undo the engine mount bolts.
Undo the gearbox to gearbox crossmember bolts.

Jack engine gently using the balancer, checking for distributor to firewalll clearance.

Hopefully doing up the bolts will cure the leak.

#13 LXCHEV

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 10:43 PM

Another super simple method for checking the oil leak - give everything a really thorough clean. Then shoot some white talcum powder around. The leaks should become quite visible very quickly.




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