18 replies to this topic

[neglectedtorana]

So I'm looking at stickier tyres as after the Optima event last year my interest has grown and I'm hoping for some hill cilmbs and tarmac sprints to be in my future.

 

200 Treadware seems to be a suitable number for a good compromise, I don't do high kms so I can sacrifice some wear.

 

Anyone have any experience with the Falken Azenis RT615K+ or Bridgestone RE71RS?

Both seem like they would work for me, Bridgestones are more expensive but might be a better all rounder.

 

https://www.falken.c...nis-rt615kplus/

 

https://www.bridgest..._rimdiameter=15

[RallyRed]

Sorry mate, we only run 205/60/13.
Cheapest - Nankang AR1
Middle - Yoky Advan
Dearest - Khumo Victoracer

Tbh... they are pretty similar. Dearer ones dont go mushy after 7 laps...but of course, how long is a lap?

[neglectedtorana]

Thanks Col,

 

I think the AR1 is too much a race tyre for what I want, I know it has a good reputation but its predominantly a street car.

Type of events I will do probably won't go to 7 laps 

I have some street Advans now but they are 12 years old so I think  its time to refresh, 

[RallyRed]

All good.
It's always a compromise with track/ road cars.
Can you have a set of roadies and another set of track wheels & tyres?

Edited by RallyRed, 28 September 2024 - 09:14 PM.

[neglectedtorana]

Possible, not a budget conscious option.

[RallyRed]

For sure.

 

It's all money and the more you go down the track tyre path, the more you exposes suspension, braking, seating, power, gearing etc deficiencies.

 

Nek minute you'll be stripping out the interior and fitting a roll cage....never ending . You'll then have yourself a track car, and have to go out and buy a road car to get around.

 

p.s forgot to mention Hoosier tyres as well, but track only.

[Balfizar]

I've have had Nankang AR-1's  on my street/track VH Commodore for 3 years. I think they are great but I don't drive much in the wet (on the road) 

I have driven in light rain (Just barely needed windscreen wipers ) on the track with only a slight adjustment.  Dry, they are great.  Big adjustment to a whole new level of braking and cornering limits.

Attached Files

•  Nankang AR-1's 002.jpg   152.52K   2 downloads

[ozyozyozy]

You will get to a point where you’re better off having a track set of wheels and a road set of wheels.
Yokohama 050’s are the go to, getting very pricey now tho, also require more camber to make work well.
Yokie also make 052’s more of a semi wet r comp tyre, people have been using them as there dry track tyres aswell with good success.
Have used Bridgestone r-comps, bit better wear and can deal with more heat, require less camber due to stiffer sidewall.
The racier tyres require a better wheel alignment, more fine tuned to the tyre, yes can make a big difference in how much longer they last or don’t last, also sensitive to tyre pressures. Road tyres usually run much higher 40-45psi due to shit sidewalls, race tyres can be 27-32psi hot, depending on tread wear.

Stickier tyres also brings more problems, oil starvation is a BIG concern when using a holden v8. Brake knock can be a huge issue, not just from the front hubs, depending on your rear axle bearing setup, can be an issue in the rear.
As stated, more grip, will then want stiffer springs and bars to keep the car in check.

So you need to consider how far you want to go, toranas can be made to work well to a point, cross that line and all hell breaks loose and you will find yourself going down a big rabbit hole. Eg heaths hatch, we have spoken many times about his oiling issues and I’m aware what he is trying to do and what he has to work with but to fix his issue properly, it needs a dry sump setup, which is very difficult to do with his car.
We have a UC targa car running around in the west, very well built car, works really well but it’s on the limit, it has issues and they don’t want to modify it further.

[yel327]

I remember vividly running my LX hatchback around Amaroo. It had a very nice suspension setup for the street, and it worked within reason on the track. Brakes were A9X. It ran 245/50/14 all around, but just street rubber, I think it was TA's or Yokos at the time. It was slowed hugely on the track by the street rubber, simply couldn't get enough grip, was all over the place and used to wheelspin out of Honda corner as the tyres weren't gripping enough. It was only a warm 6 and 5spd manual with an A9X salisbury, after a few laps you'd hear the lifters ticking even with the street rubber, I can only imagine how bad it'd be with race rubber. The scariest part was the full power, 3rd gear onto the main straight sliding towards the Armco next to the pits. I managed to lose it there one lap and spun it twice into the infield. Fun times.

[RallyRed]

Yeah, that Armco onto the straight was like a magnet, drew you in, but luckily never hit it.

[neglectedtorana]

Lots of interesting info here,

I have been considering how far this interest could take me and until I win lotto I hope to keep it reasonable and still pay my mortgage.

 

My current tyres were purchased 12 years ago, unfortunately they have not done many kms in that time but I will be replacing them soon,

I do like the AR1 and think it could be a fun tyre probably above my skill level needs but as I have experienced some downpours I am not prepared to get a tyre that serious.

 

Stub axle stiffeners, different suspension, roll cage, lots of other stuff that could be useful. I have done the front stub axle stiffeners recently.

Don't ave a plan but for now I'll keep going step by step and see where it ends or maybe it never will. I have entered the mountain straight hill climb.

 

Still shopping for tyres, will try find a street/track compromise.

[claysummers]

Suggestion for using up the old tyres, but you probably know what I’m going to say…….


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[RallyRed]

"12 yrs ago"..., reckon any tyre you pick will rock your socks off compared to them mate.

[ozyozyozy]

Food for thought, current, say yokie 050 8 inch wide tyre would prob have as much grip if not more than the 10in slick they ran in the hey day at bathurst.

Stub axle stiffeners are a great start, do recommend them and will work just fine for majority of people.
It can get to the point where you need big bearing hubs, is there a difference? I can confirm there is, it does affect brake pedal feel and increases stiffness of the upright.

In the case of targa cars, a number of the top flight toranas in oz have done chassis rail and other forms of bracing due to torana’s flexing so badly, common to pop spot welds and create cracks.

Not trying to scare people off at using them on the track, I’m trying to make people think more about the direction they want to head.
They can be a lot of fun tho.

As for brake upgrades when the time comes, if you’re going to track it, AP or Brembo, don’t bother with anything else.

[Heath]

RS4's would be my recommendation. They are not a semi slick but you can have a lot of fun in a car before you get to the limit of an RS4, and they're cost-effective, and mine lasted 25,000km plus a fair few days of motorsport. I only just replaced my first pair (front) a few days ago. I've been through a lot of rear tyres and don't use them on the back, but I would if they made them in wide sizing.

[76lxhatch]

RS4's would be my recommendation. They are not a semi slick but you can have a lot of fun in a car before you get to the limit of an RS4, and they're cost-effective, and mine lasted 25,000km plus a fair few days of motorsport. I only just replaced my first pair (front) a few days ago. I've been through a lot of rear tyres and don't use them on the back, but I would if they made them in wide sizing.

Wow, I struggle to get that many kms out of 300 treadwear let alone 200. What are they like in the cold/wet? Might be worth a try.

[neglectedtorana]

Suggestion for using up the old tyres, but you probably know what I’m going to say…….


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Iv'e grown out of that sort of behaviour and now complain abuot the noise of the local bogans at night

[neglectedtorana]

Food for thought, current, say yokie 050 8 inch wide tyre would prob have as much grip if not more than the 10in slick they ran in the hey day at bathurst.

Stub axle stiffeners are a great start, do recommend them and will work just fine for majority of people.
It can get to the point where you need big bearing hubs, is there a difference? I can confirm there is, it does affect brake pedal feel and increases stiffness of the upright.

In the case of targa cars, a number of the top flight toranas in oz have done chassis rail and other forms of bracing due to torana’s flexing so badly, common to pop spot welds and create cracks.

Not trying to scare people off at using them on the track, I’m trying to make people think more about the direction they want to head.
They can be a lot of fun tho.

As for brake upgrades when the time comes, if you’re going to track it, AP or Brembo, don’t bother with anything else.

 

I have considered how to make a big bearing option and the C5/C6 Corvette have a nice stub axle that has a 9 degree KPI

Not sure if it would work but I think it is worth considering.

I have a CRS chassis kit and extra bracing for trailing arm mounts and I haven't another car to compare it to but feels like a solid car to drive.

RS4's would be my recommendation. They are not a semi slick but you can have a lot of fun in a car before you get to the limit of an RS4, and they're cost-effective, and mine lasted 25,000km plus a fair few days of motorsport. I only just replaced my first pair (front) a few days ago. I've been through a lot of rear tyres and don't use them on the back, but I would if they made them in wide sizing.

 

Unfortunately RS4s don't have a size for my front 16" wheel

Unless I cut some of the lower guard lip which isn't a terrible idea

[ozyozyozy]

These are the big bearing kits I’m refering to
https://msfracingcom...g-bearing-hubs/

The outer bearing is as big as the standard inner, the inner of these hubs are about twice the size.
The corvette thought is an idea, they attach to the arms in a different way, they will also have other knock on affects, eg steering arms.
The more you delve in to this subject the bigger the rabbit hole gets and that’s just 1 very small piece.
I’m not trying to turn people off hitting the track, when I mention this type of stuff, just trying to give them more insight as to what happens.