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New clutch (help)

Started by laspy , Sep 14 2006 09:46 PM

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23 replies to this topic

#1 laspy

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 09:46 PM

hey ppl

I need a new clutch behind the 253... whats the best option.. i rang autobarn and repco and the heavy duty clutch they have listed is an lh/lx slr/5000 l34 clutch which measures 255 x 1 and 1/8. Is this the best thing to put behind it?

Also ive never changed my clutch before or played with it much. Is there someone that can give me a step by step process of how to do it. Also any tricks behind it and things to watch out for.

thanks in advance

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#2 surfmaster

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 10:08 PM

If you want to change your clutch yourself get someone who knows how to do it to give you a hand, there are a few traps you can fall into if you don't have the experience. (Checking the flywheel for wear/hotspots, greasing the bearing in the back of the crank, lining up the clutch plate so the box goes back in easily, not hanging the box off the new clutch plate and distorting or damaging the plate, putting the clutch plate in the right way around, checking the unis while the tailshaft is out, plugging all the holes in the box so 80/90 doesnt lubricate you or the driveway) - to name a few.

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#3 _UCV80_

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 11:05 PM

Its certainly not the easiest job to change a clutch...

need to take tail shaft off
unbolt trasmission crossmember
release the clutch cable/or mechanical setup
unbolt gearbox bellousing and dust cover, and pull the box out.
unbolt the presure plate..
replace clutch plate (must! be alligned) i made an allignment tool for $0

but they can be purchased for 50$ for a plastic one (universal) my $0 one is better.
:spoton:

then tighten the presure plate slowly and evenly.

then slide the gbox shaft through the clutch and into motor (can be stressfull)

then bolt it all up

have fun

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#4 rodomo

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 11:14 PM

^ Remove gearshifter before you get under the car.

Ask A.B.S or contact stedz LC, he works for A.B.S. Ringwood Vic, about 1 tonner clutch. They have a stronger diaphram in the pressure plate. Budget clutch that will handle more torque if your motor is warm and you accidently make the wheels spin now and again :spoton:

Edited by rodomo, 14 September 2006 - 11:20 PM.

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#5 dattoman

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 01:09 AM

Make sure you get the flywheel machined
The 253 clutch is 240mm and superseeds to the 255mm 308 one
But if you don't machine the surface the new plate will be running on the old dirty outer

Otherwise go for it

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#6 laspy

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 09:59 PM

thanks for the help guys... sounds like im going to have to get a mate to help me out to prevent headaches and booboo's. Still havnt got the clutch kit yet but am hunting. Ive been looking at the PBR clutch and the Dycons (spelling?) clutch... how do they differ in quality? About the same?

cheers

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#7 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 08:58 AM

My advice here probably goes against the diy ethos of this site.........

Having just been an assistant in changing the clutch on another car some time ago I told myself, dont do that again unless you can do it with the car on a hoist or absolutely strapped for funds, life is too short to be spending a whole day lying under a car. If possible see how the job is done by someone else with car on a hoist, so that it makes it slightly easier when you are flat on your back under the car
Yes, the job can be done by putting the car on stands, but it is terribly hard work.....undoing stubborn bolts especially, oil dripping all over you, lying on top of the tool you need(having to crawl out again to get the right tool........anyone thats worked under a car knows all this.
Probably need to end up going to the physio with a sore neck back etc, might have better spent the money on someone else doing it.
If you are going to go for it yourself, think safety, have some arrangement for lowering both the flywheel(if it needs machining) and gearbox other than holding on to it while you unbolt it.

Edited by devilsadvocate, 16 September 2006 - 09:02 AM.

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#8 laspy

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 05:13 PM

thanks for the help lads... a mates mate has access to a hoist and is goin to let me have a crack at it and help me along the way. Will make a good learning experience.

cheers

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#9 dattoman

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 05:17 PM

Daiken
Good clutch
PBR sold off their clutch section
They are still branded PBR but not made by them

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#10 _SSHatch_

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 06:15 PM

Couple of little tricks that I have learnt through numerous clutch changes on a variety of old Holden�s.

As well as all the above bits that need unbolting don�t forget to take the Speedo cable out. I have an end cut off an old one I use to put back in the hole to stop oil leakage.

It is possible to take the shifter off, unbolt and remove the rear gearbox mount and then unbolt the transmission from the bell housing. With the tail shaft removed, using an old yoke in the rear of the gearbox or wrap and tape plastic bags tightly around the extension housing to stop oil leakage again, you can then slide the transmission backwards so the input shaft is clear of the pressure plate but still inside the bell housing and support it there so you don�t need to fully remove the gearbox from the vehicle. The gearbox will end up sitting the extension housing on the gearbox cross member and the input shaft in the bell housing. I also support the gearbox at the front with a bottle jack or similar so the weight isn�t all on the input shaft but the shaft will not come out of the bell housing and as such stop the gearbox from falling out.

Unbolt the pressure plate carefully and remove it and the clutch.

Remove flywheel for machining and then refit.

Fit the new clutch and pressure plate. I use an old input shaft salvaged from a dead gearbox as a clutch alignment tool. (Never used to use anything and always got them lined up by feel around the extremities of the pressure plate but getting old now and don�t want to push my luck anymore.) The other option is that with the pressure plate and clutch in place and only having enough pressure to hold the clutch in position you can then slide the transmission back into place (remembering to put the thrust bearing back in place) and once its in position with the rear mount back in you can then tighten the pressure plate bolts. This is done by slowly tightening each bolt a little then turning the flywheel around to do the next. It�s a slow way of doing it as you have to turn the engine over a number of times to do it properly but when there is nobody else to help lift the gearbox back in then it�s a lot easier in the back and arms.

Afterwards it�s a case of refit all the other bits you removed and check they are all correctly tightened and fitted.

I will probably get flamed for some of these suggestions but as they say, necessity is the mother of all invention.

I have done all of the above a number of times and never had a problem with clutch�s or gearbox's afterwards. Just remember to always double check anything and never try and pull a gearbox out by yourself. Even just having the girlfriend there in case something goes wrong so she can ring for help is better than nobody.

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#11 laspy

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 09:42 PM

thanks for that SShatch... very helpful :spoton:

I am able to get the PBR clutch for $190.00 or the daikon one for $250.00. Is it worth going for the PBR? a mate of mine had one in his vn ss and was not happy with it. He reckons it would get chewed once it got hot. Is it worth paying the extra $60.00?

cheers

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#12 laspy

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 12:22 PM

im in the process of putting in the new clutch and have a quetion for yous... Inside the bellhousing there is a bolt that can be adjusted. Its connected to the outherside of the fork. What is this for? and how do i now how much to adjust it?

cheers

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#13 FastEHHolden

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 07:20 PM

I'll bet you moved it before you asked the question didn't you?
The idea is if your clutch worked normally before (before it wore out) then you leave it alone....its a little hard to adjust when its all back together.

If you didn't get full travel on your clutch and the cable/rat trap/slave cylinder the you adjust it.

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#14 laspy

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Posted 07 October 2006 - 01:28 PM

after a couple days of being on my back lying on cold hard cement and covered in oil the clutch was settup and gearbox sitting perfectly. Last thing left to do was fill her up with oil and away we go.... this morning i went to take her for a test trive to see a trickle of oil down the driveway. The front seal on the input shaft is biggered!!!! Im devistated all that hard work and the box has to come out again :cry:

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#15 Bazza

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Posted 07 October 2006 - 01:43 PM

Hi

What kind of transmission? If you have one of the older M20 or M21 Aussie 4 speeds and the car jacked up with the front down, oil can escape through the front. There was no front oil seal in those boxes.

Learned by experience

Bazza

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#16 laspy

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Posted 07 October 2006 - 02:31 PM

are you sure thats possible? i have the front of the car up but i might of put too much oil in...the gearbox is an m21 im not sure how old or new? what should i do?

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#17 Bazza

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Posted 07 October 2006 - 04:26 PM

Hi laspy

It's worth a try - get your car level, open the filler plug. If there is excess it will drain out. If it is low - fill to the correct level. Take of the "clutch cover" and clean up the lost oil (this is assist in diagnosis).

If possible leave a couple of days. If it is still leaking it's probably a front seal. If not you're probably ok.

It seams a little coincidental that your seal gave in at the same time as your clutch.

I had refilled mine with the front down and as consequence overfilled it. I jumped to the conclusion that I had a leaking front seal and pulled the box only to find there wasn't meant to be a seal. Put the box back in - did the above and have had no probs since.

Hope this helps.

Bazza

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#18 laspy

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Posted 07 October 2006 - 04:37 PM

hey bazz

i dropped the car down and undid the filler bolt... about 750 ml of oil came pouring out... i guess i overfilled. Ive done the bolt back up and am waiting for the drips to hopefully stop. The thing is no oil is getting inside the bellhousing its seeping in between the gearbox and the bellhousing and dripping. So its not going near the clutch. I hope its what you say it is as ive had enough brusing done to my back for a lifetime. The only thing im worring about is if it actually stops dripping and its "fixed" what will happen when i drive and everything in the gearbox is turning? will the oil get forced around and come pissing out again? or will it not reach this area again and the problem will be gone for good?

help?

cheers mate

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#19 Bazza

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Posted 07 October 2006 - 05:08 PM

If I recall correctly - the overfill comes out a breather gallery. Gearboxes are normally filled to the point that it starts to dribble from the filler hole. So now you have the correct level.

If you take into account the oil that you have already lost and the 750ml that just came out - it seems to have been way overfilled. This being the case - you may still have a later M21 with a front seal and the leakage was purely due to overfilling.

With any luck you will be ok - there may still be a little residual leakage - you will know if it is significant.

Good luck

Bazza

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#20 laspy

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 03:08 AM

thanks for the help bazza but looks like the box must come out again. Since my last post ive cleaned up 3 puddles of oil. Ohh well what can you do.... if it has to be fixed it has to be fixed

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#21 laspy

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 12:53 AM

after allot of stuffing around the clutch is final in. BUT i am having a problem... i need advice from someone with experience in clutch cable settups. This is what going on...

I tightened the clutch cable until the thrust bearing was just sitting on the spring pins (dunno wat they are called). When putting my foot to the ground the thrust bearing does not move forward enough and the clutch is still engaged. The only way i can get the car to go into gear it too adjust the clutch a lot! so that it is already being "pushed down" which means i am not getting the full clamp load when the clutch is released. At about 4 thousand revs... when giving it a punch i can feel the clutch slipping!!! This is a brand new heavy duty clutch... i dont want to wear it down becoz of a bad cable settup!. A mate of mine recons i need a spacer behing the thrust bearing to get more of a "pull" i dont think this will solve the problem. What can i do? is there another settup i can use?

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#22 TerrA LX

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 02:49 AM

thrust race should not ride on the pressure plate fingers. there should be a gap present. 1mm or 40tho was the requirement from memory.
also the top of the cable at the clutch pedal should have about 3mm of free play from memory.
please refer to factory manual for more accurate specs.

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#23 laspy

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 01:21 PM

hello ALX76 those figures and settup is what i am trying to acheive... The problem i am having is that once i set the cable up with that amount of play so that the thrust bearing is not sitting on the pressure plate fingers, i can not select gears. With my foot down to the ground the thrust bearing does not move forward enough to disengage the clutch. If i put my foot to the gound and try to start the car it jumps and stalls (clutch is still engaged!)
What im trying to acheive: When i push the pedal to the ground i want the thrust bearing to move forward much more then what it is now. What can i do? ive tried all the adjustments but nothing. I need more throw when moving the pedal.

cheers

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#24 laspy

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 05:43 PM

ive done something a little silly as a temporary fix. What ive done is ive removed the rubber stopper that adjusts the height of the clutch pedal. So that there is more pedal to be pushed but the cable is let another 2cm slack. By doing this i now have some play in the cable but a very uncomfortable leg movement. Anyone with ideas on a permanant fix to save my leg?

cheers