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hi guys
im looking for a water pump that would flow better then a standard pump as im having over heating problems. i bought a standard pump from rsp think it was the power max one.
can anyone recommend one thats better than a standard one???
its for a holden 355 and id prefer not to use an electronic pump.
danny...
looking for a new water pump for 308
Started by
dannygtrxu1
, Oct 03 2006 03:27 PM
25 replies to this topic
#2
_LHoon_
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Posted 03 October 2006 - 03:52 PM
If you have overheating problems, then I wouldn't be blaming your water pump. I'd be looking elsewhere.
I don't think you can really get any better ones, other than the electric pumps of course.
I don't think you can really get any better ones, other than the electric pumps of course.
#3
TerrA LX
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Posted 03 October 2006 - 05:01 PM
there is a place in melbourne, thermotech i think, that flow test and rebuild waterpumps.
if you are running the cast impeller type and there is not too much clearence between the impeller and body, and the water is flowing thru the system, then look else were for your overheating probs.
is it overheating, loosing water, or just running over temp, say over 110 deg C.
if you are running the cast impeller type and there is not too much clearence between the impeller and body, and the water is flowing thru the system, then look else were for your overheating probs.
is it overheating, loosing water, or just running over temp, say over 110 deg C.
#4
_1QUICK LJ_
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Posted 03 October 2006 - 11:13 PM
you can use the cast impeller type from a 5LTR VT
#6
_big chris_
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Posted 04 October 2006 - 03:53 PM
Hi danny,
I would look at the flow thru on your radiator first,
we replaced the waterpump, thermostat, and housing etc,
then last, should have done first, new radiator.
problems solved, dodgy flow thru, looked like it was working,
but was not fully flowing.
Cheers
Chris.
I would look at the flow thru on your radiator first,
we replaced the waterpump, thermostat, and housing etc,
then last, should have done first, new radiator.
problems solved, dodgy flow thru, looked like it was working,
but was not fully flowing.
Cheers
Chris.
#7
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Posted 04 October 2006 - 05:17 PM
Danny, do you have something firm to go on that your water pump is the problem?
One basic test is to accurately measure the temp of the water going in and out of the radiator. Infrared temp sensors are great for this, you can buy cheap ones that work for ~$40-50, or perhaps visit a radiator shop where they should be able to do the test for you.
Its best to test when the temp in the engine has got above thermostat temp so you can be sure the thermostat is not retarding flow.
If you see a large temp difference across the radiator at any rpm , larger than 10C, this would indicate that the coolant is not circulating fast enough...........its going to vary a little depending on the rpm whether you have an engine fan(one that puts more air through as the pump spins faster) or electric fan. Hopefully the guys at the radiator place will have some experience in what would be good differences to see with your setup. Certainly if the bottom hose feels colder to touch when the motor is supposedly very hot, then you have a circulation problem.........which may be the water pump...........could be blockage elsewhere.
A basic test for radiator flow: fill rad......dont fit cap........remove bottom hose.......time how long it takes to empty.........more than 2 secs......get it looked at.
One basic test is to accurately measure the temp of the water going in and out of the radiator. Infrared temp sensors are great for this, you can buy cheap ones that work for ~$40-50, or perhaps visit a radiator shop where they should be able to do the test for you.
Its best to test when the temp in the engine has got above thermostat temp so you can be sure the thermostat is not retarding flow.
If you see a large temp difference across the radiator at any rpm , larger than 10C, this would indicate that the coolant is not circulating fast enough...........its going to vary a little depending on the rpm whether you have an engine fan(one that puts more air through as the pump spins faster) or electric fan. Hopefully the guys at the radiator place will have some experience in what would be good differences to see with your setup. Certainly if the bottom hose feels colder to touch when the motor is supposedly very hot, then you have a circulation problem.........which may be the water pump...........could be blockage elsewhere.
A basic test for radiator flow: fill rad......dont fit cap........remove bottom hose.......time how long it takes to empty.........more than 2 secs......get it looked at.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 04 October 2006 - 05:20 PM.
#8
Posted 04 October 2006 - 06:59 PM
Hi guys
The top rad hose is alot hotter than the lower hose just by feeling it and i have
measured the tep with a infrared thermometer and its more then 10c difference to the lower hose.
I also have flushed the motor out and the radiator too. Thermostat is working fine.
Its a reco hq 4core radiator.
Could a leak from somwhere cos overheating as well??
Like a head gasket??
Thanks
Danny..
The top rad hose is alot hotter than the lower hose just by feeling it and i have
measured the tep with a infrared thermometer and its more then 10c difference to the lower hose.
I also have flushed the motor out and the radiator too. Thermostat is working fine.
Its a reco hq 4core radiator.
Could a leak from somwhere cos overheating as well??
Like a head gasket??
Thanks
Danny..
#9
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Posted 04 October 2006 - 07:40 PM
What is the actual temperature of the top hose when you have the 10C difference?.
If you can noticeably feel the difference by hand between top and bottom hoses (with the essential proviso that the coolant temp has risen well above the thermostat temp) then you have a major circulation problem. Of course if the coolant temp in the engine is being maintained at thermostat temp by the restricting action of the thermostat then there could be substantial differences from top to bottom hose
If you can noticeably feel the difference by hand between top and bottom hoses (with the essential proviso that the coolant temp has risen well above the thermostat temp) then you have a major circulation problem. Of course if the coolant temp in the engine is being maintained at thermostat temp by the restricting action of the thermostat then there could be substantial differences from top to bottom hose
Edited by devilsadvocate, 04 October 2006 - 07:42 PM.
#10
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Posted 04 October 2006 - 07:51 PM
a leak anywere in the system will cause temp to rise, are you loosing water.
have the system pressure tested.
have the system pressure tested.
#11
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Posted 04 October 2006 - 08:35 PM
First question is you have a fan shroud on it ? Is the fan a clutch fan style ?If so is the clutch fan actually working properly ?
Are you actually losing any water ... since the water in the motor is a enclosed system ... your water level should never change .If you arent losing water , next step.
Are you 100% sure you r thermoset is working properly ? 180 Deg ?
Are you running coolant ? if so how old is it ? since coolant actually goes slimy when it ages its bad .
If you can answer to all above questions that all are working ... and the water pump isnt leaking water making grinding noises( bearing failure) then actually i would be looking at your radiator... i know its a 4 core , but maybe its not big enough 5 core are available... or aluminium ones( costly thou ).
To give a idea i run a 400 with a standard water pump but custom aluminium radiator with AU twin electric fans .. and on a cool night i can drive literally 30kms before i need to turn them on and only for like 1-2 mins then turn off since it drops water temp to like 150F ... its well worth it in a hottie.
Are you actually losing any water ... since the water in the motor is a enclosed system ... your water level should never change .If you arent losing water , next step.
Are you 100% sure you r thermoset is working properly ? 180 Deg ?
Are you running coolant ? if so how old is it ? since coolant actually goes slimy when it ages its bad .
If you can answer to all above questions that all are working ... and the water pump isnt leaking water making grinding noises( bearing failure) then actually i would be looking at your radiator... i know its a 4 core , but maybe its not big enough 5 core are available... or aluminium ones( costly thou ).
To give a idea i run a 400 with a standard water pump but custom aluminium radiator with AU twin electric fans .. and on a cool night i can drive literally 30kms before i need to turn them on and only for like 1-2 mins then turn off since it drops water temp to like 150F ... its well worth it in a hottie.
#12
Posted 04 October 2006 - 09:04 PM
#Im running 14 and a 12icnh fans sucking.
#yep thermostat is working fine its a 180
#coolant is new as ive just flushed it all out.
#i have seen a few drops of coolant on floor which looks like its coming from the back of the motor.
#yep thermostat is working fine its a 180
#coolant is new as ive just flushed it all out.
#i have seen a few drops of coolant on floor which looks like its coming from the back of the motor.
#13
_1QUICK LJ_
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Posted 04 October 2006 - 09:47 PM
yep thats the type of pump im talkin about 
#14
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Posted 04 October 2006 - 09:54 PM
you have to find and fix that leak before you proceed.#i have seen a few drops of coolant on floor which looks like its coming from the back of the motor.
#15
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Posted 04 October 2006 - 10:07 PM
Dont really understand how a few drops leaking externally(if the pressure is still maintained in the system) is going to do anything to the basic ability of the water pump to circulate the water and the radiator to exchange heat?
#16
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Posted 04 October 2006 - 10:25 PM
once the system has a leak the water is exposed to the atmosphere there for rendering the cap pressure useless.
you cannot maintain pressure in a leaking system.
you cannot maintain pressure in a leaking system.
#17
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Posted 04 October 2006 - 10:45 PM
The leak would have to be substantial for the pressure to drop to atmospheric, a few drops leaking out........it will still stay at pressure.........the pressure is what is typically making the drops come out in the 1st place.
In a system that maintains 80-5C, putting a radiator cap on it wont change the temperatures at the places it can be measured.........
Pressurisation doesn't increase heat transfer, it just raises the ranges of operating temperatures of the motor. One should aim to make the cooling system good enough that a rad cap is only needed for extreme circumstances.
Nucleate boiling I hear in the distance, phenomenon that is extremely difficult to detect if its happening or not(if you have preignition maybe)........possibly why its used as a reason to peddle water wetter etc..........if it was as much of a prob as suggested, coolant temperatures would be lower, not hotter.............
In a system that maintains 80-5C, putting a radiator cap on it wont change the temperatures at the places it can be measured.........
Pressurisation doesn't increase heat transfer, it just raises the ranges of operating temperatures of the motor. One should aim to make the cooling system good enough that a rad cap is only needed for extreme circumstances.
Nucleate boiling I hear in the distance, phenomenon that is extremely difficult to detect if its happening or not(if you have preignition maybe)........possibly why its used as a reason to peddle water wetter etc..........if it was as much of a prob as suggested, coolant temperatures would be lower, not hotter.............
#18
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Posted 04 October 2006 - 11:29 PM
.............loosing pressure is what is typically making the drops come out in the 2nd place..........the pressure is what is typically making the drops come out in the 1st place.
is not the leak is the first instance?
#19
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Posted 05 October 2006 - 10:17 AM
As the ebay add says danny, those later series water pumps have a l longer snout and will not fit with the old gear you have on the motor. If you were going to get one you would have to change all your pulleys to commodore as well.
#20
makka
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Posted 05 October 2006 - 02:53 PM
he could get one of theseAs the ebay add says danny, those later series water pumps have a l longer snout and will not fit with the old gear you have on the motor. If you were going to get one you would have to change all your pulleys to commodore as well.
http://cgi.ebay.com....1QQcmdZViewItem
#21
Posted 06 October 2006 - 06:47 PM
Anyone installed a vs v8 s3 radiator and au fans on a lj before??
I got quoted $300 for a the vs radiator today. Is it worth changing to a vs rad and au fans plus ill be installing a new water pump while iv got the chance???
danny..
I got quoted $300 for a the vs radiator today. Is it worth changing to a vs rad and au fans plus ill be installing a new water pump while iv got the chance???
danny..
#22
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Posted 06 October 2006 - 09:41 PM
The first thing you should do is get rid of the 4 core radiator, they are hopeless. get a piece of cardboard and try to blow through it, that is what your 4 core radiator is like. get a 3 core inline radiator, they will disperse enough heat. the pump isn't your problem. Go an buy twin thermo's for an AU falcon, an bolt them onto your 3 core radiator.
Also is the motor rebuilt?? cause if the motor is old you should rip out all the welsch plugs and literally flush your motor clean. If you flush your motor just in an out of the radiator hoses it won't do it properly. you will find their are little pieces of rust near the outside of the bores when you pull your welsch plugs out. they will cause the motor to not cool down properly. clean them out and you will find the motor will stay cool with a 2 core radiator.
Do you have and auto in this torana, and if so does it cool down through the radiator. cause that will cause major heating.
Also is the motor rebuilt?? cause if the motor is old you should rip out all the welsch plugs and literally flush your motor clean. If you flush your motor just in an out of the radiator hoses it won't do it properly. you will find their are little pieces of rust near the outside of the bores when you pull your welsch plugs out. they will cause the motor to not cool down properly. clean them out and you will find the motor will stay cool with a 2 core radiator.
Do you have and auto in this torana, and if so does it cool down through the radiator. cause that will cause major heating.
#23
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 06 October 2006 - 10:09 PM
Danny, we are perhaps missing some history here........has this motor, radiator and fan combo run at a satisfactory temperature previously and this is just a new problem...........or have you just installed all this stuff and found it runs too hot?
Installing cross flow radiators from later models doesnt make any sense to me or are the vs radiators alloy?, the space on the torries is more suited to a vertical flow radiator..........having some trouble seeing ^ how you might keep a 355 cool with a 6cyl conventional 2 core.
Installing cross flow radiators from later models doesnt make any sense to me or are the vs radiators alloy?, the space on the torries is more suited to a vertical flow radiator..........having some trouble seeing ^ how you might keep a 355 cool with a 6cyl conventional 2 core.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 06 October 2006 - 10:22 PM.
#24
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Posted 07 October 2006 - 08:02 AM
Okkies now we have added some more history . Firstly fix the visible problems eg that water leaking from back .
Is it coming from the back of manifold? HAve the heads got welsh plugs at the rear? Or is it From Motor plugs from rear? Or is it actually from the block to Head gap?
Best thing i can suggested here is get your hands on a pressure tester..... If you dont know how to use it , these are the finer points .
Make sure engine is cool , Car is on level ground.... the ground underneath is clean . Plug in the pressure tester properly on top of radiator and pump it up ( i cant remeber pressure needed but im sure its easily found) Leave the pressure tester on the car for an hour roughly while reguraly checking if the gauge is losing pressure or not, if so check for where the visible leaks are coming from .
Hopefully they are all visible , if they are not visible and still losing pressure then its internally.
Once you can leave pressure tester on car for an hour or so without losing pressure , then we move onto next problem solving area.
One of the golden rules.. always fix the easy problems first .
Denis
Is it coming from the back of manifold? HAve the heads got welsh plugs at the rear? Or is it From Motor plugs from rear? Or is it actually from the block to Head gap?
Best thing i can suggested here is get your hands on a pressure tester..... If you dont know how to use it , these are the finer points .
Make sure engine is cool , Car is on level ground.... the ground underneath is clean . Plug in the pressure tester properly on top of radiator and pump it up ( i cant remeber pressure needed but im sure its easily found) Leave the pressure tester on the car for an hour roughly while reguraly checking if the gauge is losing pressure or not, if so check for where the visible leaks are coming from .
Hopefully they are all visible , if they are not visible and still losing pressure then its internally.
Once you can leave pressure tester on car for an hour or so without losing pressure , then we move onto next problem solving area.
One of the golden rules.. always fix the easy problems first .
Denis
#25
gtrboyy
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Posted 07 October 2006 - 01:16 PM
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