Well Im finally getting around to upgrading the horrible!! stock LX Brakes,I'll be buying the Castlemane Rod Shop adaptor plate,sourcing some LX Drum Stub Axles and get them modified. My brother has a set of WB Siscs and Calipers but I need to know if I'll have clearance issues with the WB Calipers?, from my understanding there are slight dimension differences between HQ and WB Calipers.
I need to know what calipers are best to use when using this set up,the HQ or WB items? HELP!
Upgrading to HQ-WB Brakes
Started by
_76S.L.R_
, May 31 2010 06:48 PM
15 replies to this topic
#2
yel327
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Posted 31 May 2010 - 07:22 PM
Why don't you just do what GMH did with L34 and A9X and use HK-HZ stubs?
HQ and WB calipers are very different. The easiest ones to fit are HQ modified as per L34 with the bottom entry hose hole plugged and a new one drilled & tapped in the top. Next easiest is UC PBR with HX/HX PBR pad carriers (ditch the cast iron bit with TORANA on it and replace with one with HOLDEN on it).
HQ and WB calipers are very different. The easiest ones to fit are HQ modified as per L34 with the bottom entry hose hole plugged and a new one drilled & tapped in the top. Next easiest is UC PBR with HX/HX PBR pad carriers (ditch the cast iron bit with TORANA on it and replace with one with HOLDEN on it).
#3
_LH SLR 3300_
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Posted 31 May 2010 - 07:46 PM
I have done this same conversion on my SL/R. CRS moddified LH drum stubs, HQ-WB discs. I planned to run HQ PBR cast iron calipers which fit easier, but after stripping down two pairs & finding corroded piston bores, i used HX-WB Girlock alloy calipers. I had to remove a fair bit off the cast iron carrier to clear the tierod ends, but it hasn't affected the integrity of them to my knowledge. My car has clocked up a fair few road kms & a couple of runs down the quarter & regular inspections have yet to find a problem. I have close up pics of my brake set up somewhere, if you like i can post them up.
#4
_76S.L.R_
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Posted 31 May 2010 - 08:09 PM
Pics would be helpfull,I somehow dont like the idea of grinding off material from the calipers and was hoping one of caliper set's would fit on without having to do that!, I think I'm going to find it difficult to find any LH Drum Stub Axles though!?I have done this same conversion on my SL/R. CRS moddified LH drum stubs, HQ-WB discs. I planned to run HQ PBR cast iron calipers which fit easier, but after stripping down two pairs & finding corroded piston bores, i used HX-WB Girlock alloy calipers. I had to remove a fair bit off the cast iron carrier to clear the tierod ends, but it hasn't affected the integrity of them to my knowledge. My car has clocked up a fair few road kms & a couple of runs down the quarter & regular inspections have yet to find a problem. I have close up pics of my brake set up somewhere, if you like i can post them up.
yel327 = dont those HK-HZ Stubs cause Bumpteer probs?
Edited by 76S.L.R, 31 May 2010 - 08:11 PM.
#5
dattoman
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Posted 31 May 2010 - 08:54 PM
oh oh oh..........ohhhhhhhhhh
Here comes a sticky
http://www.gmh-toran...?showtopic=1012
Try checking some of the previosly asked entries
And this one too
http://www.gmh-toran...showtopic=18228
Here comes a sticky
http://www.gmh-toran...?showtopic=1012
Try checking some of the previosly asked entries
And this one too
http://www.gmh-toran...showtopic=18228
#6
_LH SLR 3300_
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Posted 31 May 2010 - 09:08 PM
Yeah i believe the LH-LX drum stubs are hard to find. I was lucky, an LH i owned years ago had drum brakes all round & when i converted to discs i kept the stubs. I don't know about HQ-WB stubs causing bump steer, i do know from experience they lower your car an extra inch or so & if you use later RTS HZ-WB stubs, it throws the camber/castor right out. Anyhow, here are some pics. As you can see, i had to remove a bit off the caliper carrier, but not heaps. I think the factory Girlock A9X calipers were cast similar to this anyhow, & apart from slightly different brake hose & bleed nipple location, were almost identical to the HX-WB ones. Someone like REDA9X would know more about this than i. Good luck with your project. Cheers Matt.
#7
yel327
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Posted 01 June 2010 - 07:28 AM
HK-WB are the same stubs bar the 1973 (or thereabouts) 1-tonner examples which were heat treated, so they'll all call the same issues if they exist. Not sure how they'll cause problems as this is exactly what GMH did with L34 and A9X. I've done this conversion on an LX hatchback and it drove as good as any car I've ever had. It had a UC crossmember, rack, steering arms and upper control arms, although when I originally did the HQ brake conversion I just uses the early LX setup with the HQ stubs.
#8
View GaragePosted 01 June 2010 - 07:55 AM
Its not so much the stubs themselves as the steering arms (to correctly suit the stubs)
#9
_76S.L.R_
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Posted 01 June 2010 - 10:42 PM
I got an email back from the Castlemane Rod Shop= They said "HQ Single Piston Calipers work best,Others fit but require mods to fit" the cost of the two adaptor plates is $250.00 + $35.00 for freight .For them to mod the Drum Stubs they charge $165.00 ,I think I'll try find some Drum Stubs here in Perth and get them altered here....
Edited by 76S.L.R, 01 June 2010 - 10:43 PM.
#10
yel327
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Posted 02 June 2010 - 07:37 AM
They've neglected to tell you about the UC/HX combination. They fit without mods too. To do HQ calipers properly you do have to modify them to a top entry brake hose.
#11
_76S.L.R_
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Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:20 PM
Can you please elaborate on the UC/HX Combination?, I'm just looking to get HQ type brakes on the LX the easiest way without cutting material off of parts and without creating Bumpsteer or similar probs........They've neglected to tell you about the UC/HX combination. They fit without mods too. To do HQ calipers properly you do have to modify them to a top entry brake hose.
#12
dattoman
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Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:56 PM
Doesn't happen
Not cheaply
The bumpsteer is introduced with the HQ stub as the inclination angle is different (also lowers the car)
To compensate you have to do some fancy wheel aligning to get the wheels from laying in too far
Couple that with the wrong steering arms and things get heavy
Especially with big tyres
There are ways to do it properly... but they cost alittle more
Basically you need to reproduce the A9X front end
Which means buying Harrops steering arms
Or just fit up the HQ stuff and deal with the heavy steering and bump issues
Or buy a kit to suit your Torana stubs and wheels to clear it
Not cheaply
The bumpsteer is introduced with the HQ stub as the inclination angle is different (also lowers the car)
To compensate you have to do some fancy wheel aligning to get the wheels from laying in too far
Couple that with the wrong steering arms and things get heavy
Especially with big tyres
There are ways to do it properly... but they cost alittle more
Basically you need to reproduce the A9X front end
Which means buying Harrops steering arms
Or just fit up the HQ stuff and deal with the heavy steering and bump issues
Or buy a kit to suit your Torana stubs and wheels to clear it
#13
Posted 03 June 2010 - 07:09 AM
The HX two piece PBR caliper has an alloy main body and a bolt-on cast iron pad carrier. The UC used the same caliper except with a narrower pad carrier (to suit the disc thickness) and one of the mounting slide pins had an allen head bolt recessed into it for clearance purposes. Using this slide pin on an HX caliper or bolting the HX pad carrier to the UC body will give you a caliper capable of clamping a wider (vented) disc which will clear on the standard Torana stub axle.Can you please elaborate on the UC/HX Combination?, I'm just looking to get HQ type brakes on the LX the easiest way without cutting material off of parts and without creating Bumpsteer or similar probs........
They've neglected to tell you about the UC/HX combination. They fit without mods too. To do HQ calipers properly you do have to modify them to a top entry brake hose.
But then you still have the issue of rotors. You can turn down an HQ-WB disc in diameter to match Torana and bolt it straight on, which will give you a vented disc but without the extra diameter you don't gain a lot of stopping power. If you want full diameter HQ discs then you need to swap stubs still or muck around with adapters which may mean clearance issues again, although I think that perhaps these calipers do clear with HQ stubs still. At the end of the day though, I think most people agree that this type caliper was about the worst of all the HQ-WB options, as I understand it the design just doesn't offer a lot of rigidity and I know the slide pins become a problem. Nothing's ever easy, huh?
If you really think you need better brakes than what it has now, don't cut corners or you'll be disappointed - listen to Datto
#14
yel327
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Posted 03 June 2010 - 07:51 AM
As above^^. The UC/HX PBR caliper combo does clear UC steering arms using HK-WB stubs. This is what I had on my LX with UC upper arms. Aligned and drove fine. Alignment was setup as per UC Torana. The advantage of using the UC PBR caliper body is the hose comes into the top like it is meant to on a Torana. I have also heard they are the worst of the calipers, but they worked fine on a road car and I never had any problems at Amaroo with them. The car was also running HZ rear discs.
#15
_76S.L.R_
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Posted 04 June 2010 - 08:31 PM
Sheesh!!,I now see why the Hopper Stopper kits are so popular! I was planning on saving some money via the HQ Brake set up , seeing as I also need to buy new wheels and tyres( 15" Weld Draglites) but it looks like the Hoppers kit is the required option.............
#16
_rob350hatch_
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Posted 06 June 2010 - 06:53 AM
here here once again you here these stories. it is a very simple effective system.some food for thought just watch steven laceys videos on utube(slacey308) hx front end, torana drums on back he breaks records everywhere was doing 2.38 at bathurst.likewise he never has any "issues".on the heavy steering you are dead right arm breaking but on the track that all goes out the window it feels very safe and predictable.i remember my mum couldnt drive dads hz tonner(he was haappy about that) becuase the steering was too heavy for her it is just the way these vechiles are thats why we love em so muchAs above^^. The UC/HX PBR caliper combo does clear UC steering arms using HK-WB stubs. This is what I had on my LX with UC upper arms. Aligned and drove fine. Alignment was setup as per UC Torana. The advantage of using the UC PBR caliper body is the hose comes into the top like it is meant to on a Torana. I have also heard they are the worst of the calipers, but they worked fine on a road car and I never had any problems at Amaroo with them. The car was also running HZ rear discs.
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