35 replies to this topic

[Marks LXTorana]

Hi everyone,

 

I will try not to ask the questions that have been asked 1000 times before! I have searched threads but looking for input from anyone with the knowledge.

 

I am changing the front springs from what I believe are standard height (on the right) to Lovells lowered which are approx 275mm free length. I have verified both springs on other threads as being typical options for the LX. The lovells are 2-3mm thicker diameter and have 8 full coils compared to the standard springs with 8.5 coils (approximately). Why? because the front end has always been very soft (as well as low) and it dives under brakes. I am hoping the Lovells stiffen it up, which i bought at a good price.

 

 

1) Anyway, I am using the opportunity to clean up the front end and noticed the K-frame (spring tower?) looks to have been modified with a corner piece cut out and re-welded, based on how the paint has been removed and the welding around the rectangular plate. Can anyone shed some light on this as to whether it is a typical modification?

2) Also, the subframe c-channel (just underneath the O2 sensor in the above picture) appears to have been boxed in just forward of where the sway-bar mounts. Is this square welded plate standard or is this a mod to strengthen the frame?

3) Has the upper control are been trimmed around the outer edge or do they just look like that?

4) Fourth and final, I have noticed in a number of forum threads that people have highlighted the need to ensure the front springs are "seated" properly although there is nothing to seat the springs into, either in the K-frame spring tower, or the lower control arm. They both seem to have a flat surface and nothing to match the spring profile. I am asking this because the standard springs I removed have both ends "cut" whereas the Lovells springs have one end tapered off so they stand flat and vertical on the ground. I assume the tapered flat end sits on the lower control arm and not up in the K-frame?

 

Thanks in advance for any input!

[Toranamat69]

Hi Mark,

 

1. Someone has modified your bumpstop - most likely to clear a non standard brake caliper.

2. This is standard on all front subframes

3. I don't think that control arm has been trimmed - looks like it may have been dented in a little for clearance though from the photo

4. The flat bit of the spring goes to the top and there is a raised ridge about 10 mm high which goes inside the spring.  The bottom control arm isn't flat, there is a formed part where the cut end of the spring goes - from memory there is a drain hole drilled in that spot.  I would have to go and check a set of standard springs but I though they too had the flat bit on 1 end.

 

Matt

[A9X]

Hello Mark
Welcome
Your k frame appears to be heavily modified
The cut corner is a modification to suit bigger calipers
Can't make out the boxed in subframe on my phone screen sorry
The uppercontrol arms appears trimmed and I'm guessing for the same reason
Finally your guess on the lovells spring is wrong
The flat tapered end is the upper or top. It sits over four pressed fingers that point down into the spring thereby locating the spring
The bottom of the spring needs to be rotated to align the spring end with the groove and hole in the lower control arm
Happy to provide pics
I personally am a fan of lovells over kings although some here say both springs come from the same foundry

[A9X]

just got the pic on the iPad.

 

i agree with Matt. ( who know shiploads more than me ) the sub fame boxing you see is standard, and i'm still thinking that upper arm has been messed with. bad angle for judgement anyway.

looks like we were typing at the same time

[A9X]

 

so this is a pic of the bottom of the lower control arm. it was taken for a thread on opening the shock absorber hole up. so don't fuss.

Identify the two shock absorber bolt holes

 

directly above that in the photo is the drain hole referred to above. You can see that there is a circle for the spring to sit in. The end of the spring sits over that hole

[A9X]

another pic 

[A9X]

and just for you, here is an unmolested k frame[/URL]

 

Edited by A9X, 18 January 2014 - 11:49 AM.

[A9X]

last one

 

[Marks LXTorana]

Hey thanks all of you for the responses. Sorry I have been in the garage cleaning parts.

 

So the mod is to suit the bigger brake calipers, which are Girlock (HX from memory). This is a view of the driver side.

 

 

Thanks also for the advice on spring fitment. I guess I was expecting to see a more moulded shape to seat the spring but I can now see how the spring end will fit in near the drain hole. At least now I will fit it right side up!!

 

Much appreciated!

[ls2lxhatch]

Lovells Fitting Instructions

 

Leave 1/4" to 1/2" space between the end of the coil and the spring seat pocket. This will help prevent spring noise when encountering large bumps.

[Marks LXTorana]

Thanks for that but I am having trouble understanding the "gap" reference? Does this mean if i am looking down at the lower control arm, rotating the spring anti-clockwise a few degrees so that the spring end has up to 1/2" gap from end of the seat?

 

Another (dumb?) question, there were no rubber rings or pads either top or bottom when i removed the springs. I have noticed some people refer to them to reduce noise. Are they common/recommended? I know they will increase the ride height by the final crushed thickness of the rubber.....

[A9X]

no such thing as a dumb question.

 

yes on the gap,

 

you will not notice any discernible difference in using the insulators, but they do cut down on some road noise.

[S pack]

Mark

 

Just so you know for future reference the front spring insulators (top of spring only) are made of Nylon not rubber.

 

Cheers

Dave.

Edited by S pack, 19 January 2014 - 10:55 PM.

[A9X]

http://www.kingswood...ker-bush/W71477

 

http://www.gmh-toran...r-rear-springs/

 

http://www.ebay.com....g-/300833518557

[mika03au]

Hi Mark,

 

1. Someone has modified your bumpstop - most likely to clear a non standard brake caliper.

2. This is standard on all front subframes

3. I don't think that control arm has been trimmed - looks like it may have been dented in a little for clearance though from the photo

4. The flat bit of the spring goes to the top and there is a raised ridge about 10 mm high which goes inside the spring.  The bottom control arm isn't flat, there is a formed part where the cut end of the spring goes - from memory there is a drain hole drilled in that spot.  I would have to go and check a set of standard springs but I though they too had the flat bit on 1 end.

 

Matt

 

 

Hello Mark
Welcome
Your k frame appears to be heavily modified
The cut corner is a modification to suit bigger calipers
Can't make out the boxed in subframe on my phone screen sorry
The uppercontrol arms appears trimmed and I'm guessing for the same reason
Finally your guess on the lovells spring is wrong
The flat tapered end is the upper or top. It sits over four pressed fingers that point down into the spring thereby locating the spring
The bottom of the spring needs to be rotated to align the spring end with the groove and hole in the lower control arm
Happy to provide pics
I personally am a fan of lovells over kings although some here say both springs come from the same foundry

Hoping not to high jack this thread...

 

Is always the way, you read a post after just finishing a task.

Engine and k frame just completed reassembly and reinstallation into car.

This discussion has made me take a second look at my spring installation.

I noted that my springs are about a quarter of a turn away from the " spring end divit" on the lower control arm.

 

Do we know how much this may effect ride height and if the spring will perhaps settle after time into this "divit"?

 

Car is still on jacks so havent lowered it onto the ground to see, still some work to do underneath.

Would be a horses butt if I need to drop the control arms out again to spin the springs around this quarter turn, though I havent fitted the upper insulators (none were fitted on disassembly) so might have to any way to fit these.

Edited by mika03au, 20 January 2014 - 03:49 PM.

[Marks LXTorana]

Not thread jacking, glad my questions can help others also!

 

Based on reading other posts/threads it seems the "insulators" are often left out when people change springs so i wouldn't go to the trouble of pulling everything apart for that. If you have already torqued everything up you may as well go for a drive around the block to settle the springs and see what sort of ride height you have.

 

The Lovell springs I am putting in are a bit of an unknown so I may need the insulators to raise the height a bit, but it is all part of the love of owning an old beast, so i can keep pulling it apart and putting it back together!

[warrenm]

Hoping not to high jack this thread...

 

Is always the way, you read a post after just finishing a task.

Engine and k frame just completed reassembly and reinstallation into car.

This discussion has made me take a second look at my spring installation.

I noted that my springs are about a quarter of a turn away from the " spring end divit" on the lower control arm.

 

Do we know how much this may effect ride height and if the spring will perhaps settle after time into this "divit"?

 

Car is still on jacks so havent lowered it onto the ground to see, still some work to do underneath.

Would be a horses butt if I need to drop the control arms out again to spin the springs around this quarter turn, though I havent fitted the upper insulators (none were fitted on disassembly) so might have to any way to fit these.

My advise would be to, lower the control arm & rotate the springs to the correct position. That's probably not what you want to hear.

[mika03au]

My advise would be to, lower the control arm & rotate the springs to the correct position. That's probably not what you want to hear.

May be able to just pop one ball joint enough to allow me to spin the coil.

The king spring isnt under a massive preload.

See how I go...off to the shed....

[Marks LXTorana]

OK so back to my original thread!

 

I have had a real discovery journey just replacing front springs (nothing is ever that simple!). Firstly, everything went back together easily after giving it all a coat of paint, and I used the opportunity to understand what is there. It looks like some thought went into building the front end, with the modified cross member, rear mounted HX calipers, A9X (same as HZ?) stub axles, RTS LX upper control arms and gas pressurised (made in Australia) shocks. It also appears the floor has been modified for extra tyre clearance when on full lock (this appears a common problem when running 15" wheels or bigger).

 

My only problem is that it is REALLY low... There is plenty of suspension travel although the front wheels sit under the gaurds and just looks like it will attract the boys in blue. I haven't measured the clearance to the sump/cross member although I am sure it would not be enough..

 

I may take the springs back out or possibly insert spacers to lift it a little. I removed the caliper piston on one side and it had all sorts of rubbish in it so I will be removing both calipers (seal kits arrived today). I noticed the nut on the driver side brake line has been burred and has teeth marks from using multi-grips so I need to replace that line while it is apart. Anyone have a spare brake line that runs from the proportioning valve to the the front driver side flexible line? Roughly 8-12 inches long..

Edited by Marks LXTorana, 29 January 2014 - 03:59 PM.

[dattoman]

So what Lovells srping did you use ?

Did you just got with LX ones or A9X ones to suit the dropped stub axle ?

[Marks LXTorana]

Hi Lazarus, are HQ stubs the same as HZ and A9X? I found a good reference page through Google which had all the part numbers listed for each stub axle etc. So this confirmed the HZ/A9X stub axle although the calipers are definately rear mounted!

 

Dattoman I bought the Lovells srpings off fleabay so I have very limited info. The owner said they were on a 6 cylinder hatch although there was no mention of modified stubs (in fact he did say the car was generally stock but scrapped due to cancer). So your point is very valid and something I had not considered. With revised stub axles the springs need to counter this with a slightly higher compressed height. Also being off a 6 cylinder I have even more compression due to the extra weight.

 

So there may be a set of lowered Lovells (front and rear) up for sale soon!

[A9X]

i'm a big fan of Lovells and here is a couple of comparison pics.

 

My LX sedan. 308, A9X stubs and lovells V8 HD Standard height front, 225 50 's on 15 inch rims , rears are Lovells standard V8 HD , front wheels on in this pic

 

 

my son's LH sedan, 202 , HZ Stubs but standard discs, Lovells 6 cylinder inch low front springs , 205 13's all round, inch low rear springs.

 

LX Hatch, 253 standard stubs, Lovells V8 Standard height fronts 195 14's, unknown kings on the arse, but believed to be inch low.

 

 

and finally, the old girl,

 

LX Hatch, 308, A9X stubs and in this photo , Lovells inch low V8 HD front an rear, front wheels are 225 50 15's and rear 295 40 15's.

 

we ended up going through 4 separate spring types while chasing a decent set-up and can tell you we never went below standard height again on the front. 

 

The HZ A9X type stub will give you an inch drop all on its own.

 

forgot the pic

Edited by A9X, 30 January 2014 - 10:52 PM.

[Marks LXTorana]

Yep I agree A9X, I think I will be putting standard height Lovells rather than lowered. It was sitting nice before I started although my main concern was how "floaty" the front end was. I haven't driven the car yet as I was waiting for the caliper seal kits to arrive. I will rebuild the calipers and bring it for a drive on the weekend to see how it drives first.

 

This is how it currently sits. A bit too low in the front or too high in the rear....

Edited by Marks LXTorana, 31 January 2014 - 12:11 AM.