Jump to content


Tuned Length - Introduction to Finite Pressure Waves


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1 _oldjohnno_

_oldjohnno_
  • Guests

Posted 05 October 2016 - 06:56 PM

We’ve already had a brief look at airflow, one of the foundations upon which we build horsepower. There are others of course - combustion efficiency and harnessing pressure wave activity being the main ones - but we’ve introduced the way that air behaves and looked at what we need to do to maximise mass flow. Let’s leave flow for the time being and have a look at finite pressure wave activity.
 
Before we discuss what it is, let’s look at what it can do and why we’d might want to use it. Basically we can only get so much air into (or out of) a cylinder using the pressure differential created by the descending piston. Once we’ve reduced the losses in the intake tract to zero (or as near to zero as practicable) then we might as well hang up the die grinder - there’s nothing left in it. But there are other possibilities for further improvements in cylinder filling and harnessing finite pressure waves is one.
 
Ever played with a “slinky”, one of those kids toys that are basically just a long steel spring? If you haven’t, go steal one from a kid now because they give a good clear look at wave behaviour.
 
slink.gif
 
Grab each end of the slinky and bounce some waves from end to end. The waves that have the coils all bunched together are compression waves, those with the coils spread further apart are called rarefaction waves. Sometimes they’re referred to as positive and negative waves. Now let’s pretend the slinky is the air in the intake tract of an engine and the slinky coils represent the air molecules. Can you see how getting a compression wave to enter the cylinder just before the valve closes can significantly increase the mass of the trapped charge?
 
Keep in mind that the waves will travel through the medium - whether it’s air or a slinky - regardless of whether it is stationary or moving at some speed. So if the wave is travelling in the same direction as the air flow the absolute speed of the wave will be the sum of the air speed plus the speed of the wave through the medium. If that doesn’t make sense think of this: you’re at the back of a bus travelling at 10kmh. You are capable of running at 15kmh. If you run from the back of the bus to the front  your absolute speed while you’re running is 10+15=25kmh. 
 
Of course the opposite is true too; if the wave is travelling in the opposite to the air flow then the absolute speed of the wave will be the air speed minus the wave speed. Back in the bus we’d represent this by running from the front to the back while the bus is travelling forwards. Again, if the bus was doing 10kmh and we ran at 15kmh then our absolute speed would be 10-15=-5kmh. The minus sign indicates that the direction of travel is the opposite of the direction of air flow (or bus travel).
 
We’ve mentioned the speed of the wave relative to the medium, but what is that exactly? In a lot of ways these finite pressure waves behave very much like sound waves, and you might even hear wave tuning referred to as sonic tuning. Finite pressure waves basically travel at the speed of sound. Or more accurately, the “local” speed of sound.
 
What’s the local speed of sound? The speed of sound in a gas isn’t a fixed value; it varies according to a number of factors, the main one being temperature. So when we talk about the local speed of sound in an intake or exhaust tract for example we are referring to the speed of sound as it exists in that tract. A simpler way of referencing this is to use the term “Mach number”. If you have a flow velocity of 0.5 mach then it is travelling at 0.5 times the local speed of sound.
 
Now, one of my pet hates, the word “harmonic”. It’s hard to imagine a more misused or misunderstood term than this one. Racers and engine builders use it to refer to damn near any high frequency vibration, and there’s a whole sticky thread on this forum about harmonics that aren’t harmonics at all. In reality a harmonic is a mathematical multiple of a fundamental frequency.
 
If you’ve been working with machinery for a while you’ll realize that everything is a spring, or more accurately, everything is a tuning fork. The crankshaft, camshaft, the block itself, the air in the intake tract, even the string of electrons in the ignition coil circuit. All these things have a natural frequency at which they vibrate if they are excited in some way.
 
If you hang a crankshaft from a string for example, and hit it with a hammer it’ll ring or chime at a certain frequency, let’s call it 600hz for this example. So 600hz then is the natural or fundamental frequency of the crankshaft. If the crank is somehow exposed to forces of around that frequency in the engine it’ll vibrate or oscillate at its natural frequency.
 
What’s this got to do with harmonics? A harmonic is a multiple or a fraction of that frequency. So for our 600hz crankshaft it would have harmonics at 1200hz, 1800hz, 2400hz and so on. The crank would also vibrate if exposed to forces at these harmonic frequencies.
 
A harmonic then is nothing more than a multiple of a particular frequency. Remember this because it’s important in regard to pipe tuning.
 
Now, before we can make use of a pressure wave we first have to create it. With a slinky we just grab one end of it and give it a quick jerk to create a wave. If we pull the end of the slinky we get a rarefaction wave and if we push it we get a compression wave. It’s exactly the same within an engine - if we pull sharply on the end of the intake tract with a descending piston for example, then we create a rarefaction wave that travels out towards the carb bellmouth. And if we crack open an exhaust valve and release gas under high pressure we create a compression wave.
 
Here’s the interesting bit: if a wave travels along a tube and encounters an open end (like a bellmouth) or even just an increase in cross-sectional-area (like a collector), it’s reflected back in the opposite direction and in the opposite sign. In other words a rarefaction or negative wave would be reflected back from the bellmouth as a compression or positive wave. This is the useful part; if we get everything timed just right then we can trap a nice dense slice of mixture in the cylinder just before the intake valve closes.
 
The opposite is also true; if a wave travels through a duct and encounters a closed end or a reduction in cross-sectional-area then that wave will be reflected back in the same sign. Ie. a negative wave will be reflected back as a negative, a positive as a positive.
 
We can also create waves with the exhaust system - when the exhaust valve opens we send a positive wave out that’s reflected back as a negative when it reaches the collector. We can use this negative wave to pull mixture into the chamber. And when this negative wave reaches the bellmouths then it’s reflected back as a positive, and this positive can jam some extra air/fuel into the cylinder as the valve is closing.
 
Here’s where harmonics come into play: let’s say you’re building an engine and you want to make maximum torque at a particular rpms - we’ll say 4000rpm. So you do the sums and calculate how long your intake tract needs to be to get that positive wave into the cylinder at just the right time. But it works out to be something like a metre or more long. Shit. How are you going to fit that much runner under the bonnet, and how are you going to keep the fuel suspended over such a long distance? Thanks to harmonics you don’t have to.
 
And here’s how it works: when a wave is jerked into existence and sent out the intake tract it doesn’t just bounce back once and then disappear. It keeps on bouncing from end to end, losing a little energy each time until eventually there’s nothing left of it. If you drop a hard rubber ball on the concrete you don’t have to catch it after the first bounce, you could catch it on the second or third. And this is exactly what we do with our pressure waves.
 
So if a metre long runner is out of the question we could make it half a metre long and catch that wave on the second bounce, or make it a third of a metre long and catch it on the third bounce. In other words we are harnessing the second or third harmonic.
 
There’s a catch to this though: with each round trip the waves lose some of their energy; just like the bouncing ball. Which explains why very high output engines like ProStockers use long runners in the tunnel ram manifolds that catch the second harmonic, even though they spin some serious rpms. Ditto for classes that use long mechanical injection stacks. But in other applications where limiting the overall engine package size is more important than peak output the pipes will be tuned to use the third or fourth harmonic.
 
Which leads to another myth that’s begging to be busted. This one says that for low rpm torque you make your runners longer and for top end you make them shorter. It makes good logical sense but many of us have found out the hard way that as often as not it just doesn’t work like that. Or maybe you’ve wondered why the SU manifolds that give the best top end power seem to have the longest runners. It just doesn’t add up.
 
It does add up actually. Let’s say your engine currently makes peak torque at 6000rpm and you’d like to increase that rpm number somewhat. Popular wisdom says to cut an inch or two of runner length, so you do that but find that the car is still slower than the competition with longer runners. How does that work?
 
What probably happened was that shortening the runner did indeed move the tuned length closer to the desired dimension for the third harmonic. But making the runner longer may have worked even better if the new length coincided with the stronger second harmonic. Longer doesn’t always mean low rpms; shorter isn’t always best for high rpms.
 
I guess the moral of this story is if you want to modify your torque curve by changing the tuned length, you first need to know which harmonic (if any) is being used at present and which harmonic you wish to use after the changes.
 
Very high output naturally aspirated engines nearly always rely heavily on pressure wave action to produce the big numbers. So it’s very tempting to use these waves in all sorts of applications but before you get too excited you need to know that there’s a definite downside. Unlike port work, which tends to improve the output over a wide rpm range, pressure wave tuning tends to raise peaks in some parts of the torque curve while creating equally big dips at other speeds. For every gain there’s a loss, and sometimes the losses can be very serious. If you don’t have enough gear ratios to keep the engine in its powerband the car can easily end up being slower. Highly tuned N/A engines tend to be very peaky. For a daily driver you might even want to suppress wave activity as much as possible for a nice, flat torque curve.
 
To illustrate just how high and how peaky the torque curve can be made we’ll take a look at one of the most remarkable racing engines ever: the Norton Manx produced from the late 40’s to the early 60’s. The Manx was a single cylinder 500 with a two-valve hemi head and DOHC; nothing too unusual. What made the engine unusual was its output - it had a BMEP higher than any other engine of the era. BMEP (or brake mean effective pressure) is a calculation of average cylinder pressure based on cylinder capacity and torque output. In other words the higher the torque output per cubic inch the higher the BMEP. Another way to look at BMEP figures is as an indication of cylinder filling or breathing - the better the fill, the more torque it makes and the higher the BMEP.
 
What really makes the Manx special (apart from all its racing successes) is that not only was its BMEP unmatched back in the day, it’s still unmatched even now. It was only made uncompetitive when the Italian four cylinder bikes were eventually able to outpower the Norton single by virtue of the much higher rpm capability of the short-stroke fours. The Gileras and MVs still couldn’t fill their cylinders as well as the Manx, but they could make up for this by having many more firing strokes in a minute.
 
Even without pressure wave aids the Manx breathed very well, but at some stage it was discovered that it responded very well to the use of a megaphone exhaust. This diverging cone reflected a negative wave back to the chamber and from there back through the intake duct during the overlap period (these engines used long-overlap, long duration cams). They soon discovered that a short, wide-angle megaphone created a stronger wave and a bigger torque boost than a long, gently tapered cone, so if you wanted to be competitive that’s what you had to run.
 
It wasn’t all roses though. When “on the pipe” the engine pulled extremely strongly. At other rpms though it ran very poorly indeed. When the rpms were out of phase with the pipe then you could have a positive wave pushing backwards through the engine and out of the carb. When this happened the air received a triple dose of fuel - once on the way in, again when it was blown back out and again on the way back in. The resulting mixture might be so rich it simply wouldn’t fire at all and plug-fouling was a problem. Riders tried all sorts of things like fanning the clutch or even jamming the toe of their boot into the megaphone to try to get the engine through the troublesome rev range. It became known as “megaphonitis” and made the bikes very unpleasant to ride. The trouble was that if you didn’t run a megaphone then you wouldn’t be able to keep up with those that did.
 
What made the engine breath so well was the combination of these: the megaphone exhaust, the long cam overlap, a very well breathing head with a valve angle that encouraged cross-talk from exhaust to intake and a very clean, tuned length intake tract. They were so concerned with keeping the intake free of anything that might disrupt the flow or wave action that even the metering needle was housed off to one side of the Amal GP carb, so that with the throttle open the entire tract including the carb was nothing more than an open tube.
 
I hope that this story of the Manx shows two things; one, that pressure wave tuning can make very significant contributions to engine power. And two, that these boosts come at a price - raised torque peaks balanced by deeper troughs. If you have enough gear ratios this mightn’t be a problem at all. Or it could be a show-stopper. There are ways to extend the positive effects of finite pressure waves over a wider rpm range though, and we’ll look at those in a later installment. For now though we’ve had a quick look at what finite pressure waves are and what they can do. Next time we’ll look at the practical side of making them work for us.

 



#2 fenz

fenz

    Forum Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 220 posts
  • Name:Aaron
  • Location:South Australia
  • Car:LJ 2 door and UC V8 4door
  • Joined: 26-July 09

Posted 05 October 2016 - 07:37 PM

Well written.

I don't think a lot of people understand the sometimes negative effects that vibration can have on rotating machinery.

 

I work in the paper industry and we have a lot of large industrial fans that can run up to 3000 RPM and we have to test to see what the natural frequency of the fan assembly is with a bump test before installation.

If the fan runs in this frequency it can do some really detrimental things to the fan and bearings.

 

If the fan or structure cracks this will then change the natural freq. and can leave you chasing your tail sometimes when trying to diagnose faults.



#3 RallyRed

RallyRed

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,841 posts
  • Name:Col
  • Location:NSW
  • Car:LC GTR etc
  • Joined: 02-October 11

Posted 05 October 2016 - 08:50 PM

bloody hell O.J...my head hurts!!!..good stuff indeed, from what I can understand.

 

I read your other post on airflow last time......still does my head in that air can be made to accel and decel. that quickly ...its obviously been going on for years, but still amazing you can pull and push and stop ,start it like that.

 

Thanks for the insight


Edited by RallyRed, 05 October 2016 - 08:56 PM.


#4 _Bomber Watson_

_Bomber Watson_
  • Guests

Posted 05 October 2016 - 08:51 PM

Good read. 

 

Was rather upset when I reached the end. 



#5 _oldjohnno_

_oldjohnno_
  • Guests

Posted 05 October 2016 - 09:07 PM

....still does my head in that air can be made to accel and decel. that quickly ... amazing you can pull and push and stop ,start it like that.

 

That's the thing - it isn't made to stop and start that quickly, at least not all at once. Nearly all the particles of air are moving at different speeds and some of them never stop. If that doesn't make sense try this corny analogy: jerking a 20kg crowbar up and down is bloody hard work and you'll raise a sweat pretty quickly. But jerking the end of a 20kg slinky up and down is much easier because you don't have to accel/decel the entire mass at once. And just like the air in the port, not all of the coils of the slinky move at the same speed and some will never stop. Get the speed just right and it'll take hardly any effort at all.



#6 RallyRed

RallyRed

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,841 posts
  • Name:Col
  • Location:NSW
  • Car:LC GTR etc
  • Joined: 02-October 11

Posted 05 October 2016 - 09:14 PM

Ta mate....excellent explanation.

I had pictured it as a ""solid block"" of air. Even though it is air, I figured it must have some inertia, and thus didnt get how it could be yanked around so easily.



#7 rodomo

rodomo

    To advertise here, call 13TORANA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,999 posts
  • Name:R - O - B Dammit!
  • Location:Way out west of Melbourne Awstraylya
  • Joined: 10-December 05

Posted 05 October 2016 - 09:53 PM

Lost me with this bit? "We’ve already had a brief look at airflow, one of the foundations upon which we build horsepower" :fool:

I more like a "goes like shit off a shovel" or it doesn't type of guy :spoton:



#8 TK383

TK383

    Forum Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 76 posts
  • Name:Tony
  • Location:SA
  • Car:Blue one
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 06 October 2016 - 08:25 AM

Wave tuning is for the last 1-2% of HP/TQ to be extracted from an engine, we probably should have a discussion about inertia ram - which if done correctly can achieve a far greater inprovement in cylnder fill than wave tuning.

It's a bit more involved than just having the right effective runner length tho.

 

Basically it's about developing as much velocity/inertia in the intake charge through the intake runner as possible (without getting into a velocity choke condition) in the early/mid part of the intake cycle - using the time though max piston speed to pull as hard on the intake as you can whilst exposing it to minimal resistance to flow & discharging it into the chamber in an orderly manner.

Once you get something moving it doesn't want to stop, the more velocity it has the greater it's inertia & the longer it'll keep moving.

 

So when you get to the last part of the intake stroke when piston speed has dropped, then stopped & then started coming back up the bore that inertia built earlier in the intake stroke can keep the charge flowing into the cylinder.

 

If it's done in conjunction with effective chamber shape to produce good pressure recovery & the highest pressure in the chamber is closer to the piston crown than the head that incoming charge can keep flowing 60,70,80 degress of crankshaft rotation past BDC (depending on engine rpm etc) when the piston is well on it's way back up the bore on the compression stroke.

 

Done right volumetric efficiency (VE% - the amount of charge in the chamber compared to what it'd hold at atmospheric pressure) can reach levels over 120% - if you want to think of it this way, that's the equivalent of 2-3psi boost into a motor already running at 100%VE.  Compared to a street engine running at 90%VE it's more like 4-5psi boost.

 

Where wave tuning comes into it is at the very start & very end of the intake & exhaust strokes, jamming that last bit of intake charge in as the valve closes, giving that pull on the intake charge as the intake valve opens to get things moving early (through exhaust wave tuning developing a low pressure spike in the chamber through the exhaust valve during overlap).



#9 LC-GTR-1969

LC-GTR-1969

    Shed tinkerer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,162 posts
  • Location:New South Wales
  • Car:Which one?
  • Joined: 09-March 14
Garage View Garage

Posted 06 October 2016 - 08:38 AM

This is a fantastic thread- extremely interesting! this forum is extremely fortunate to have such well informed contributors. 



#10 _STRAIGHTLINEMICK_

_STRAIGHTLINEMICK_
  • Guests

Posted 06 October 2016 - 03:26 PM

Two excellent explanations of often misunderstood engine theory and how they can work together.
With this in mind you can imagine how little a 202 garage port and large volume manifold will benefit from this inertia effect.
Has anyone seen a perkins slide manifold and modified vn heads,this is a great example of manifold and port design and taking advantage of the inertia effect.

Edited by STRAIGHTLINEMICK, 06 October 2016 - 03:30 PM.


#11 _STRAIGHTLINEMICK_

_STRAIGHTLINEMICK_
  • Guests

Posted 06 October 2016 - 05:43 PM

Two excellent explanations of often misunderstood engine theory and how they can work together.
With this in mind you can imagine how little a 202 garage port and large volume manifold will benefit from this inertia effect.


Oops , meant to say how the 202 will NOT benefit from the inertia effect due to the larger area causing lower airspeed.

#12 Bigfella237

Bigfella237

    Socially Distant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,374 posts
  • Name:Andrew
  • Location:Far South Coast of NSW
  • Car:(s) not as many as I'd like but more than I've got space for!
  • Joined: 31-October 14

Posted 06 October 2016 - 05:52 PM

you’re at the back of a bus travelling at 10kmh. You are capable of running at 15kmh. If you run from the back of the bus to the front  your absolute speed while you’re running is 10+15=25kmh.

 

But what if the bus is travelling at the speed of light? B)

 

smiley_offtopic.gif That reminds me of something I saw on TV, did you know the world record for the longest golf putt is 9.2 miles! The putt was made down the isle of the Concorde whilst travelling at 1,270 MPH.



#13 _Bomber Watson_

_Bomber Watson_
  • Guests

Posted 06 October 2016 - 09:41 PM

But what if the bus is travelling at the speed of light? B)

 

I recon if we can work out how to make air and fuel travel at the speed of light, and control it, A lot of our current issues would be gone haha. 



#14 RallyRed

RallyRed

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,841 posts
  • Name:Col
  • Location:NSW
  • Car:LC GTR etc
  • Joined: 02-October 11

Posted 07 October 2016 - 09:36 AM

The above make me ask ---

 

...Ive often pondered this...............

 

Force fed applications ( turbos and S/C,) both rely on the fact that the forcing is driven by something connected to engine speed.Thus the volume of airislinked to hat the engine requires at varius rpm.

 

Being an electrical kind of person,Ive often pondered if it could be done electrically. not sure if step response time for various engine revs Vs. electric fan forced air  revs could be achieved? ( lets be honest, if it was easy , cars would be running around with it now).

 

Thus, what if the fan just ran at the best speed  response time it could ( or just ran flat out all the time and bled over any excess pressure), and it just pressurised a big air box that went to the carbies? ( sort of like an accumulator in a hydraulic system). 

 

May run out of pressure for extended WOT stuff, but for everyting else it would provide forced air.

 

If this is a goer, I'll  give 10% profits to the forum admins.to keep the forum going..........not holding my breath (pardon the pun)



#15 _Bomber Watson_

_Bomber Watson_
  • Guests

Posted 07 October 2016 - 10:25 AM

The problem is the sheet amount of power you need to drive the fan.

When you consider a 200hp engine is probably putting 70hp of potential energy out of the exhaust, you start to realize how much power a turbo can hold for example.

Whens the last time you saw a 70hp dc electric motor that could be packaged neatly in an engine bay hehe.

#16 RallyRed

RallyRed

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,841 posts
  • Name:Col
  • Location:NSW
  • Car:LC GTR etc
  • Joined: 02-October 11

Posted 07 October 2016 - 11:41 AM

never......but who said its 12v?

Nah, you are correct, its not a goer, otherwise it would have been done.

 

Having said that, who'd have thought Commodores would have drive by wire electric  steering ?



#17 S pack

S pack

    Scrivet Counter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,541 posts
  • Name:Dave
  • Location:Luggage Point
  • Car:73 LJ
  • Joined: 25-January 10

Posted 07 October 2016 - 12:11 PM

never......but who said its 12v?

Nah, you are correct, its not a goer, otherwise it would have been done.

 

Having said that, who'd have thought Commodores would have drive by wire electric  steering ?

Not quite drive by wire yet Col. The steering rack has electric power assistance in leiu of hydraulic assistance. The rack & pinion is still mechanically connected to the steering column shaft.



#18 RallyRed

RallyRed

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,841 posts
  • Name:Col
  • Location:NSW
  • Car:LC GTR etc
  • Joined: 02-October 11

Posted 07 October 2016 - 12:58 PM

never trust a salesman...I just bought one, and old mate told me there was no shaft ( I havent bothered to look)...doh



#19 Bigfella237

Bigfella237

    Socially Distant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,374 posts
  • Name:Andrew
  • Location:Far South Coast of NSW
  • Car:(s) not as many as I'd like but more than I've got space for!
  • Joined: 31-October 14

Posted 07 October 2016 - 01:08 PM

I can't find it again now but if memory serves there's some clause in the ADRs restricting vehicles without a mechanical steering system to a top speed of 11km/h (or something like that)?



#20 _STRAIGHTLINEMICK_

_STRAIGHTLINEMICK_
  • Guests

Posted 07 October 2016 - 03:18 PM

Let's get back on topic blokes

#21 _Matt_

_Matt_
  • Guests

Posted 18 October 2016 - 06:16 PM

Hi Oldjohnno, ive read this as well as some of your elsewhere info on exhausts and found you to be informative.

I have a 202 engine (now 208) in a HQ which ill be racing next year for the first time in the HQ class. These motors are basically stock but the exhaust we are free to do as we like. Cam is controlled, slightly upped from stock version by only a whisker. Manifold and carby is stock.

So i would like your opinion if you would on how i should go about this, considering ill be making my own exhaust including the extractors.

Peak power i think should be made at around 4500 rpm and be as flat as possible. Revs can be as low as 3000 rpm and up to 6000 rpm. Im looking to make this system a 6-2-1 setup.

 

These engines usually produce about 130-140 hp at the wheels so im guessing from your info that 1.5 inch primaries are the go. But what length should i run?

The collectors. Should they be 2 inch dia? Im unsure what is the best length for my rpm?

The collectors im planning on a tapered version from small to large, 2 inch to 2,5 inch exiting into the exhaust pipe. Is this a good idea as i could get megophonitis?

The exhaust will exit just in front of the near side rear wheel. Should i make a large radiused curve in the pipe after the collector to the side of the vehicle or at the collector point?

Is a sharper but earlier curve followed by a long straight pipe to the exit or a more radiused but further down the pipe with less straight sections  better in order to direct gasses to the side of the vehicle?

 

Thanks for your reply in advance if any. All info i can gleen from you will be very appreciated. :) Any additional info you can tell me in regards to my needs would be a fantastic bonus for me.

Thanks bud, Matt. :)



#22 TK383

TK383

    Forum Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 76 posts
  • Name:Tony
  • Location:SA
  • Car:Blue one
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 21 October 2016 - 12:13 PM

I've done a LOT of work with the HQ race guys, including a whole bunch of testing with different headers including customs.

What you want is plain old pacemaker 1.5" primary off the shelf pipes, nothing else made significantly more than them, some moved the power band around a little, but not by much.

The old genie headers were also good.

They are so badly head/intake/carb/cam limited that exhaust pulse tuning is pretty much innefective.



#23 _STRAIGHTLINEMICK_

_STRAIGHTLINEMICK_
  • Guests

Posted 21 October 2016 - 01:57 PM

Yup the pacemakers are a good off the shelf pipe .My fj uses a set with a 2.5" collector fitted .

#24 biga064

biga064

    Forum Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 195 posts
  • Name:Adam
  • Location:North coast NSW
  • Car:EH Holden
  • Joined: 13-September 09

Posted 21 October 2016 - 06:23 PM

I've done a LOT of work with the HQ race guys, including a whole bunch of testing with different headers including customs.

What you want is plain old pacemaker 1.5" primary off the shelf pipes, nothing else made significantly more than them, some moved the power band around a little, but not by much.

The old genie headers were also good.

They are so badly head/intake/carb/cam limited that exhaust pulse tuning is pretty much innefective.

 

What about a engine with all the appropriate head work etc etc surely a decent set of pipes would work wonders ??      Pacemaker genie whoever are made too suit standard manifolds so your getting standard gains on basicly a stock motor !!!  Ever done any testing on TK383   on something more radical  ? Cheers !!



#25 _Inj gtr202_

_Inj gtr202_
  • Guests

Posted 28 October 2016 - 01:14 PM

Haven't been on the forums for ages and I come across this straight up.

Happy days.

Thanks for all the info guy's.

Great reading,

 

ps. good to see tk383 on here.

The 12 port head you did for me is still going strong :spoton:


Edited by Inj gtr202, 28 October 2016 - 01:16 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users