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Largest legal Engine size


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#1 STEVO

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 08:00 PM

G'day everyone old member but been away from the forum for a fair while but I'm back now
I was wandering what's the biggest legal engine size to fit in a torana slr5000 in Victoria
I want it to be a big block and have found a small 348 cube big block so any info would great
Cheers in advance

#2 Bigfella237

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:41 AM

There is no definitive answer to that question, it varies with each engineer's interpretation of the "rules". The following table is from the NCOP...

 

Table_LA1.jpg

 

...but the emphasis is on the word "Recommended". There are a few examples just on this forum alone of vehicles that fall way outside of those recommendations, but be prepared for some major chassis, driveline, brake & suspension upgrades to go along with it.

 

I guess you could say the table above could be considered a 'bolt-in' conversion guideline?

 



#3 Lima31

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:12 AM

Square bodies weigh about 1300 kg according to WA transport last time I checked, so that is 6.5 L (396 cu.in) NA or 3.9 L boosted.



#4 axistr

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:14 AM

I don't think any SLR or hatches weighed in at 1,300kg. Going by Holden factory specks the heaviest Toranas V8 auto topped out around 1,240kg. My engineer said 383ci aren't legal but 380ci 6.2lt just makes it, but it really depends on the engineer if he recommends chassis and brake mods to satisfy him, it's there licence on the line. Some will sign off and some won't. If you read and do your sums going by the NCAP chart posted above a heap of conversions out there aren't legal.

 

You also have to keep in mind the engine block casting date. If the block date is older than the Torana your trying to fit it to it may not comply with pollution regs. It doesn't matter  what speck the engine is built to or which vehicle it was sourced from the engineer has the right to reject it.  



#5 Shiney005

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:45 AM

DOT in WA are on a big power trip at the moment and are making up the rules as they go along. They are no longer using the national code of practice (VSB14). They will not pass any LS motor in any Torana.

The pics are from a bloke who was building a 327 EK following the VSB14 guidelines and had it rejected before he could even get it to an engineer. There is NO appeal process either.

 

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#6 Redslur

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:11 PM

I had a lot to do with the introduction of the NCOP in 2006 in ACT.  It is very sad to see that a lot of States are ignoring a very reasonable code of practice.



#7 Bigfella237

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:17 PM

To the best of my knowledge, Gerry, NSW (along with SA) never officially adopted the NCOP, we're still using the NSW LVCOP, which is even more out-of-date.

 

~ The pics are from a bloke who was building a 327 EK following the VSB14 guidelines and had it rejected before he could even get it to an engineer. There is NO appeal process either. ~

 

Seriously, what a pack of bastards!

 

It sounds like this bloke already had approval (presumably in writing) and he was just asking for a time extension, now he's got nothing? You would think any existing approvals should be grandfathered.

 

I bet he's kicking himself now, should've just laid on a couple of slabs for a heap of lads and had a working bee, get it done in a week, passed and approved under the original approval.

 

Anyway, that's all moot since Stevo is in Victoria.

 

In the end it's all about finding the right engineer and doing whatever it takes to get his or her approval. As an example, have a read of LoHla's build thread:

 

http://www.gmh-toran...ic/77664-lohla/

 

I've seen some weird and wonderful things happen with club rego too 'south of the border', not sure what the inspection process is at the club level in VIC but that may be another option?



#8 myss427

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:30 PM

Zagari Engineering in SA,  so I believe took rego to court and one, allowing vehicles to be engineered with big motors and wheel tubs. Have a look at there Facebook page, some pretty amazing cars that are registered.



#9 Redslur

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:08 PM

Yes NSW think of themselves as the only ones who count and make their own rules.  Can be very difficult to deal with and don't like be told what they can and can't do.

ACT has had some doozy arguments with them over the code over the years....

 

To the best of my knowledge, Gerry, NSW (along with SA) never officially adopted the NCOP, we're still using the NSW LVCOP, which is even more out-of-date.

 

 

Seriously, what a pack of bastards!

 

It sounds like this bloke already had approval (presumably in writing) and he was just asking for a time extension, now he's got nothing? You would think any existing approvals should be grandfathered.

 

I bet he's kicking himself now, should've just laid on a couple of slabs for a heap of lads and had a working bee, get it done in a week, passed and approved under the original approval.

 

Anyway, that's all moot since Stevo is in Victoria.

 

In the end it's all about finding the right engineer and doing whatever it takes to get his or her approval. As an example, have a read of LoHla's build thread:

 

http://www.gmh-toran...ic/77664-lohla/

 

I've seen some weird and wonderful things happen with club rego too 'south of the border', not sure what the inspection process is at the club level in VIC but that may be another option?



#10 cameron

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 12:03 AM

DOT in WA are on a big power trip at the moment and are making up the rules as they go along. They are no longer using the national code of practice (VSB14). They will not pass any LS motor in any Torana.

The pics are from a bloke who was building a 327 EK following the VSB14 guidelines and had it rejected before he could even get it to an engineer. There is NO appeal process either.

 

It's all about protecting their a_s if the vehicle is involved in any accident (even minor). My understanding from inside is that there is a strong push within DOT to remove all old cars from the road and clamp down hard on all illegal performance modified cars. The bee under their bonnet has been a new 20yr detailed accident analysis/report.

 

With the strict new car safety laws (getting very advanced) the studies on accidents have indicated that older cars are a big public safety issue. DOT certainly are making things almost impossible even though we have current approval. I have jumped through all the hoops, have crossed our t's and dotted our i's but even the engineer said it's ridiculous that they can change the rules 2yrs into an approved project. No common sense within Welshpool. If they think they can chop and change with the wind they are very wrong. It's stupidity to have to go to court because you followed their agreement, rules, timeline but I guess in most cases people just walk away regardless of the facts.

 

Cameron



#11 Shiney005

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 08:56 AM

I had forgotten about your build Cameron. Have you gone through the courts yet or is that still coming? How far along is the Torana?



#12 cameron

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 12:43 PM

It has been given over to the lawyers whom are awaiting august date options (I am done talking to DOT) . They have sent our case (spelt it out) to DOT and given them 30 days in a hope we can get some sensible response in an 11th hour bid to avoid the large court costs. Not what I want or need but they have gone rouge and not following the rules. Too much money involved and its a very long project that has stalled so not happy is an understatement.

 

Cameron



#13 Brenno304

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 02:31 PM

G'day all,

haven't been on here for a while, working, saving and buying parts have been consuming most of my time. I was about to lodge an application to fit an L77 6 litre in my torana, having purchased a donor wreck for the process... looks like I may have to re-think... 

 

I've spoken to 2 engineers and 2 licencing centres about this and although complying with vsb 14, they've said "no go"... 180kw / tonne max..

 

I've already converted front and rear suspension to series 3 Jaguar, which they are fine with as long as engineer approves, but wont allow the engine.. 

 

Any ideas for next step?



#14 Shiney005

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 03:04 PM

Seeing as you are in WA your options are limited. With an LX hatch the donor motor will have to be less than 221KW as it left the factory. Late model 308 is the easiest. Build a good strong bottom end and heads, then change the cam and intake after it has passed.



#15 Brenno304

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 03:59 PM

Thanks Shiney,

 

I was hoping to have a decent chance of using the 6 litre on merits of economy with the d.o.d gear, but if DOT would rather me use an old cast iron guzzler (that sounds better anyway), I guess I'll have to go that direction.... 

 

Funny that licencing said a 235kw ls1 is acceptable, based on 1308kg, but not the d.o.d 6 litre with a slush box....

 

You think I could get a 355 stroker under the 220kw and do cam and intake after?


Edited by Brenno304, 11 July 2018 - 04:04 PM.


#16 Shiney005

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 07:43 PM

Easy. But I didn't know that they would allow an LS1. If you were set on the L77 then maybe LS1 is the go. No D.O.D. but still a good motor. However I am still a fan of the old 308. The last one I built was a VT block and heads, Motec, roller cam, harrop intake and Injection Perfection throttle body. It made great horsepower and was still easy to get along with. 






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