16 replies to this topic

[Heath]

Hey guys,
 
I've got a Holden V8 (VR Commodore block, late model alloy heads) that came with these bits:

• An MSD Dynaforce P/N: '5321' alternator which is described as being a "GM CS130" case. Link here: https://www.ebay.com...0UAAOSws9ZezzWd
• An Aeroflow "Mid Mount" Alternator Bracket which I don't plan on using, but I guess the alternator was bought to match? https://www.ebay.com...LAAAOSwbopZUZ9C
• A long VN type Water Pump
• A Romac balancer

So I'm seeking some advice to install this into my hatchback Torana. 

I should say that I simply want to use the standard V8 Torana alternator bracket.

 

- Can anyone show me where the curved adjuster arm for the alternator attaches at the motor end? Not sure if it's part of the water pump, or onto the timing cover (but that won't work easily on mine due to the billet timing cover)

 

- Should I expect this aftermarket MSD alternator to be like-for-like with the standard alternator bracket geometry? Like pulley positioning etc. 

 

- Do I need to swap the water pump for an early one like a Torana came with (rather than a 90's Commodore)?

 

- What pulleys do I need to source for the water pump and crank pulley? I just want some simple, black, alloy single V belt items.

 

Appreciate the help. Never stuffed around with this stuff.

[76lxhatch]

The adjuster arm does mount to a timing cover bolt next to the balancer (aftermarket balancers sometimes foul) but you can get away with anything in the vicinity, lengthen or shorten the arm if need be. I'd say that mid-mount bracket probably suits Commodore where it can sit a bit lower due to the chassis rail setup.

 

I wouldn't expect too much out of those generic 1-wire alternators (you'll be lucky to get anywhere near 120A especially at low RPM), but it should work OK if it fits inside the bracket. Pulley should be in roughly the same spot as the mounting points are 180 degrees apart but check the pulley diameter as they are just generic/GM/Chevy-style parts and may not be ideal size for Holden.

 

Don't swap the water pump, just use a Commodore pulley (the square nosed, slightly smaller diameter one) and it should line up exactly the same. Can't get the short pump with a proper impeller these days and the bigger bearing is an improvement.

 

Almost any V-belt crank pulley from a Holden will be the same diameter and belt position, might be hard to find a single-V though. Probably cheaper to just buy whatever and cut it down.

 

But we all know you really want to challenge yourself with more than just a basic V belt setup...

[hanra]

There is actually a small cylindrical spacer that sits between the pump housing and arm which is not shown in the parts manual.

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[yel327]

As above, just use the longer pump and a pulley off car it goes with. Not just Commodore though, basically anything from a certain time onwards which includes Holden and Statesman from around 1979 right up until 2000.

Will just need a shorter fan spacer if you run a fan. You may run into issues if it runs a viscous fan though.

[Shiney005]

There is actually a small cylindrical spacer that sits between the pump housing and arm which is not shown in the parts manual.

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[Com_VC]

But we all know you really want to challenge yourself with more than just a basic V belt setup...

 

Loving that serpentine belt setup, is that made using off the shelf parts?

[Statler]

I used the short type water pump & stock pulleys because #1: It works. #2: more room for the thermo fan. 

[76lxhatch]

Plenty of room for the thermo fan with long pump in the four door (although it has a Commodore radiator too with custom mounts). There's only 16mm difference, can't imagine it being a problem with a V8.

 

Loving that serpentine belt setup, is that made using off the shelf parts?

Most were originally off the shelf, but somewhat modified...

http://www.gmh-toran...16#entry1036183

[Com_VC]

Thanks, that's awesome.  I like how everything was repurposed from other vehicles.

[Cook]

Apologies for hijacking the thread but here is my simple serpentine system.  No power steering or air-con to worry about (at present).  Angle of pic seems to show little clearance between thermo fans and pulley but plenty of room.  Still uses original alternator bracket and tensioner arm. Cheers Ron

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[76lxhatch]

Good stuff, we'll have Heath convinced he needs to up his game soon... :-D

[axistr]

The engine in my LH is from a VR Clubsport. It didn't take much effort to convert it to serpentine belt drive. I purchased the four pulleys from Summit racing which all but the crank pully bolted onto the other original accessories. I had to drill the crank pully to take the four bolt Holden harmonic balancer pattern.  Nice and quiet, only adjusted the belts once in the past five years, and no slipping when the A/C compressor cuts in. I hate V belts and its no wonder we just don't see many new vehicles with them any more. How many accessories do you intend on driving? 

 

 

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[hatchssv8]

Heath, my 2 cents worth.

 

VS S3 or VT 5.0 is what you need for a basic set-up

crank pulley- inner multi rib (4PK) is A/C comp, middle multi rib (4PK) is alt & w/pump, outer single V is p/str. Up to 3 belts in total.

 

That is a superior setup compared with using single V pulleys. Then as others have shown you go serpentine, 1 belt only, multi rib (6PK minimum) will drive all.....but it comes at a cost/risk.

If any one of the following fail, its a walk home condition- p/str, a/c comp, idlers or tensioners.

 

Below is a pic of VT setup driving water pump & alt only

 

 

 

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[gtrboyy]

https://www.ebay.com...LwAAOSwONBZBvDX

 

Single groove crank pulley...roadstar is lighter...most factory single pulleys have wear marks cut into them by belts but if can find good factory one grab it.

 

long nose water pump can use efi 304 single groove pulley or later model twin groove pulley

 

much prefer to use short nose waterpump,heaps more room,looks neater & easier to work on engine just make sure cast impellor to avoid cavitation issues

 

short nose waterpump pulley can also be bought from roadstar but noticed they're larger diameter over factory version but probably work well for high reving engine.

 

If alternator is suited for chev then will work in torrie alternator bracket...lowe fab & bliss custom sell nice aftermarket brackets that tuck them in tighter.You could probably buy alternator bracket kit from atracing dirt cheap then fab up your own.

 

1 wire alternator can apparently be converted to 2 wire if you want to keep charge light...120a-160a alternators will slip the belt & screech like a mofo due to extra load they need or not getting belt tight enough.

 

Most my cars are efi 304 engines...short nose pumps & factory single groove w/pump pulley with roadstar crank pulley & vn-s efi v8 85a alternator...au fans bu last few had vs v6 thermofan & vs v8 s3 radiators

[Heath]

Now I'm in a bind. Should have only asked one person, lol.

 

Did a fair bit of asking and can't find any VT 304 pulleys for sale currently.

I don't like the look of the Reidspeed water pump pulley for my car. Don't like anything non-purposeful with a cover plate or higher than necessary moment of inertia, lol. Alloy would be preferred though.

I've never had an issue with a V-Belt personally.

[Com_VC]

I'm actually surprised no one has suggested a Gilmer belt drive setup yet. lol

[Heath]

Just as a follow-up, since last posting I decided to use a VT 5.0 setup as per one of the recommendations here. They use the 4PK Multi-Rib design.

Arthur found me a crank and water pump pulley from a friend of his.

That crank pulley is a monster... 3.66kg of cast iron with the air con and power steering pulley sections on there. I elected to remove this, and keep things super simple... and I think there's an argument that I could have gone even simpler with a set of alloy pulleys and a V-Belt, but anyway here we are. Some of this copied out of my build thread for anyone reading here.



Took the front V section off to begin with:

Flipped it over to remove the rear 4PK section:


Turned it back around and tapered the bore out:


Fitted to my Romac balancer spigot like so.


And the cast iron water pump pulley remained unchanged mostly, but I just took a little material off the inside on the lathe and drilled another set of holes in both pulleys to lose a few grams.


Crank pulley lost about 1.7kg at least.

Picked up a VT Alternator pulley which is machined steel. A bit different to my 'V' pulley that my aftermarket alternator (apparently GM CS130 dimensions) came with:


The offset could be corrected by either moving a spacer in the bracket, or machining about 4.5mm off the back of the pulley, I did the latter because I felt it looked better, and tapered the inside and back of it while on the lathe to drop a few more grams.



Mock-up on the motor:


And painted up in some engine enamel:

Edited by Heath, 13 July 2020 - 03:50 PM.