I'm in the FINAL planning stages of an engine swap in an LC. I'm just trying to put together a sort of checklist as to what to do and what not to do ... and what to be careful of etc.
the engine swap is just from a 2250 to a red 202.
I am thinking of leaving the gearbox attatched and taking it all out as one and then reconnecting the gearbox to the new motor out of the car ... any concearns here?
also taking the old manifolds and exhaust (in the short term) dizzy and other bits and pieces and putting it on the new motor ... any troubles here? Obviously a 202 carby will be in order here.
I think I've exhausted anything I can think of. I'd love input from anyone as to what I should be careful of or ad to my list here
Thanks
-Al
checklist for an engine swap
Started by
_LC2250_
, Dec 20 2005 01:07 PM
30 replies to this topic
#2
to fly
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Posted 20 December 2005 - 04:01 PM
Gday ,
Pull motor out with box is quicker, might need dummy tailshaft or plug in the back of the box, else oils everywhere. Input shaft or clutch alignment tool is good for the refit, but I reckon you can get the box on the new one pretty easy out of the car. Couple of little things,if the new donk was in front of an auto you will need a spigot bush.Check out the clutch plate, might be good time to wack in a new one,Im sure you will get heaps more tips off the forumers, so good luck with it and have fun!!!!
Pull motor out with box is quicker, might need dummy tailshaft or plug in the back of the box, else oils everywhere. Input shaft or clutch alignment tool is good for the refit, but I reckon you can get the box on the new one pretty easy out of the car. Couple of little things,if the new donk was in front of an auto you will need a spigot bush.Check out the clutch plate, might be good time to wack in a new one,Im sure you will get heaps more tips off the forumers, so good luck with it and have fun!!!!
#3
_draglc_
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Posted 20 December 2005 - 04:15 PM
make sure u got stuff like oil, filter, coolant, exhaust gaskets crap like that just to get you going again.
i found it quite difficult to pull the box out with the engine, gotta be able to lift it all pretty high to clear the rad support, and yeh you will need to plug the back of the gearbox or oil will go EVERYWHERE!! or you could try draining it beforehand.
GOOD LUCK!
i found it quite difficult to pull the box out with the engine, gotta be able to lift it all pretty high to clear the rad support, and yeh you will need to plug the back of the gearbox or oil will go EVERYWHERE!! or you could try draining it beforehand.
GOOD LUCK!
#4
_rorym_
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Posted 20 December 2005 - 05:41 PM
Its tough to undo the box off the motor unless you have the right socket set but I like A1 would leave the sucker in.If you go the other way u can get a plastic tailshaft plug for the box from Repco for $10. The alternative is to drop the subframe and lift the body off. Preferred by some blokes like Big Als Army.
R
R
#5
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Posted 20 December 2005 - 07:25 PM
Im with draglc on this one (in regards with what you'll need). Coolant, gaskets, oil and filter (and tranny oil).
You will obviously be taking your bonnet off and radiator out - i would reccommend taking the tranny out with the motor as you can ensure all bolts are tight and it is much easier than getting under your car to locate bolts and line up the input shaft!! Are you replacing your engine mounts too?? Have a look at the condition of all your mounts before you rip the package out to ensure your putting everything back in with good parts behind it! Its also a good time to degrease your tranny if it had any leaks at all! And paint it if you want!!
When i did the engine swap in my UC, i took the time to paint up my crossmember and any areas in my engine bay that looked a bit dull!! And i gave the fresh paint in my engine bay a polish while i was at it (my car was resprayed not long before my engine swap)!!
Other than that - take your time and be patient with that damn tailshaft (i hate those small bolts...!!..!!..!!
Keith
You will obviously be taking your bonnet off and radiator out - i would reccommend taking the tranny out with the motor as you can ensure all bolts are tight and it is much easier than getting under your car to locate bolts and line up the input shaft!! Are you replacing your engine mounts too?? Have a look at the condition of all your mounts before you rip the package out to ensure your putting everything back in with good parts behind it! Its also a good time to degrease your tranny if it had any leaks at all! And paint it if you want!!
When i did the engine swap in my UC, i took the time to paint up my crossmember and any areas in my engine bay that looked a bit dull!! And i gave the fresh paint in my engine bay a polish while i was at it (my car was resprayed not long before my engine swap)!!
Other than that - take your time and be patient with that damn tailshaft (i hate those small bolts...!!..!!..!!
Keith
#6
GML-31
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Posted 20 December 2005 - 08:07 PM
gee everyone is overlooking the 3 most important components,
1. a few good mates to help
2. A large packet of patience
3. And a fair bit of alcohol to celebrate when its done...
1. a few good mates to help
2. A large packet of patience
3. And a fair bit of alcohol to celebrate when its done...
#7
surfmaster
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Posted 20 December 2005 - 08:11 PM
While the radiator is out have it serviced/cleaned out, it may have worked Ok with the old engine but a bigger motor puts out more power which means more heat. If the old radiator is gunked up it may overheat.
The swap is a fairly straight forward one, don't forget to mark the position of the hinges on the bonnett when you take it off (pencil or felt pen traced around the hinge face where it meets the bonnett, this will save you having to readjust the bonnett when you throw it back on.
The swap is a fairly straight forward one, don't forget to mark the position of the hinges on the bonnett when you take it off (pencil or felt pen traced around the hinge face where it meets the bonnett, this will save you having to readjust the bonnett when you throw it back on.
#8
_LC2250_
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Posted 21 December 2005 - 10:02 AM
I am awed at how many responses I've got here thank you all so very much ...
now to go through these
to fly:
The clutch is only a about 2000km old so hopefuly it'll be right ... but prolly better safe than sorry to check it
and it's going to be behind an m20.
draglc:
When you say difficult to clear with the box ... is it impossible or will I need to be jacking the front up a bit?
I have very vivid memories from when I changed the old 3speed for an m20 in the driveway of a lot of oil went everywhere ... oops
a dummy tail shaft piece might be in order ... would a tarp or garbage bag around the end with rubber bands do the trick just as well?
rorym:
got a very complete socket kit ... but I do remember it being a bitch getting that top drivers side bolt off last time.
Also what exactly do you mean by " The alternative is to drop the subframe and lift the body off. Preferred by some blokes like Big Als Army." you talking about the whole car there?
Keithy's_UC:
I wanted to kill someone/something when I was fiddling around lining up the input shaft last time ... man that was frustrating.
I would like to assume that the engine mounts are in good condition considering the previous owner of this car and the meticulous care that was taken in preserving it ... but better to be safe. What exactly should I be looking for in regards to wear and tear on these mounts? Paint sounds like fun ... if time permits I'll definitely clean the bay up ... maybe paint ...
gml-31:
don't you worry, they are all definitely covered ... hopefuly we have bought enough patience ... but definitely the last will not be in short order
surfmaster:
what should I look for in cleaning the radiator ... obviously using a high pressure hose through the thing will bend the baffles up ... any special way to do this?
Thanks all for your input
-Al
now to go through these
to fly:
The clutch is only a about 2000km old so hopefuly it'll be right ... but prolly better safe than sorry to check it
and it's going to be behind an m20.draglc:
When you say difficult to clear with the box ... is it impossible or will I need to be jacking the front up a bit?
I have very vivid memories from when I changed the old 3speed for an m20 in the driveway of a lot of oil went everywhere ... oops
a dummy tail shaft piece might be in order ... would a tarp or garbage bag around the end with rubber bands do the trick just as well?rorym:
got a very complete socket kit ... but I do remember it being a bitch getting that top drivers side bolt off last time.
Also what exactly do you mean by " The alternative is to drop the subframe and lift the body off. Preferred by some blokes like Big Als Army." you talking about the whole car there?
Keithy's_UC:
I wanted to kill someone/something when I was fiddling around lining up the input shaft last time ... man that was frustrating.
I would like to assume that the engine mounts are in good condition considering the previous owner of this car and the meticulous care that was taken in preserving it ... but better to be safe. What exactly should I be looking for in regards to wear and tear on these mounts? Paint sounds like fun ... if time permits I'll definitely clean the bay up ... maybe paint ...
gml-31:
don't you worry, they are all definitely covered ... hopefuly we have bought enough patience ... but definitely the last will not be in short order
surfmaster:
what should I look for in cleaning the radiator ... obviously using a high pressure hose through the thing will bend the baffles up ... any special way to do this?
Thanks all for your input
-Al
#9
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Posted 21 December 2005 - 10:54 AM
What car is the 202 out of?, the sump may be different. If the 202 is out of a LH-X the bump will be at the back, BUT still not correct for an LC. Sit both motors side by side and compare sumps. You may well have to swap em over. So go get a sump gasket kit.
#10
surfmaster
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Posted 21 December 2005 - 05:20 PM
I would get the radiator professionally done - have it flushed at the very least. The insides have to be clean as well as the crap between the cooling fins. Not sure on the cost though......
#11
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Posted 21 December 2005 - 05:35 PM
Yeah, you lift the car OFF the subframe leaving the engine on the front wheels. While u are at it you can do nolathene rubbers too. Much of a muchness...The mates thing is a given, dont do this alone. Alchohol optional!
R
R
#12
_LC2250_
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Posted 21 December 2005 - 08:47 PM
I have a strong feeling that the 202 is out of an LJ but has a sump off a HQ ... so I'll prolly have to put mine on (the sump). I'll have a go at cleaning out the radiator ... someone will be able to help with that properly.
Just one last annoying question ... I've heard good things about these nolathene bushes ... but what do they actually do that is so good or better than standard?
Cheers
-Al
ps. alcohol is definitely not optional ... sure my temperament will be well and truly burnt out by the end of this
Just one last annoying question ... I've heard good things about these nolathene bushes ... but what do they actually do that is so good or better than standard?
Cheers
-Al
ps. alcohol is definitely not optional ... sure my temperament will be well and truly burnt out by the end of this
#13
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Posted 23 December 2005 - 11:04 PM
i did an engine swap on my LJ a few months ago and it wouldnt of been possible without MATES!!
im really interested in the droping the sub-frame, got a few questions on how its done though...
after unbolting the subframe, can you lift the body up with a trolly jack and a pair of stands or do you need a hoist? then im guessing that you roll the motor and box forward, swap it over with your new motor and then roll it back. how high does the body need to be lifted. im thinking that the rear bar on a LX is going to be on the ground?? do i have the correct procedure?
cheers
im really interested in the droping the sub-frame, got a few questions on how its done though...
after unbolting the subframe, can you lift the body up with a trolly jack and a pair of stands or do you need a hoist? then im guessing that you roll the motor and box forward, swap it over with your new motor and then roll it back. how high does the body need to be lifted. im thinking that the rear bar on a LX is going to be on the ground?? do i have the correct procedure?
cheers
#14
_draglc_
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Posted 23 December 2005 - 11:15 PM
dont get nolathane mate.. get superpro, its a dark blue colour. Best stuff i reckon, pretty cheap too.
A1
A1
#15
_Keithy's_UC_
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Posted 24 December 2005 - 07:06 AM
Hey man, things you should look for on your engine mounts are cracks in the rubber (or in the metal plate), look to see if it's 'squashed', check if it's twisted or bent. Also make sure the bolts in the engine mounts are there, and if they are, ensure they are tight when they go back on!!
You dont need much paint to do your crossmember area! I did my whole crossmember, steering rack, control arms and stabiliser bar too! Didnt even use half a tin of black paint!! Food for thought really!
I've got a question for you now... Is the 202 reco'd? Has it any mods (headwork, cam, forgies)???
Nolathene bushes are better than standard rubber ones, but poly-urethene ones are better still! The way they are developed is to have the 'movement' characteristics of a rubber bush, but with the strength characteristics of something a lot harder! I use poly bushes in the UC, havent changed them in about 5years - and they're still going strong!!
You dont need much paint to do your crossmember area! I did my whole crossmember, steering rack, control arms and stabiliser bar too! Didnt even use half a tin of black paint!! Food for thought really!
I've got a question for you now... Is the 202 reco'd? Has it any mods (headwork, cam, forgies)???
Nolathene bushes are better than standard rubber ones, but poly-urethene ones are better still! The way they are developed is to have the 'movement' characteristics of a rubber bush, but with the strength characteristics of something a lot harder! I use poly bushes in the UC, havent changed them in about 5years - and they're still going strong!!
#16
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Posted 24 December 2005 - 09:35 PM
I pulled my engine out a couple of months ago, i found that it is better to take the rocker cover off first as it hits on the shelf where the heater box sits, i pulled the engine out by myself, but left the box in and removed it later, having some people to help is a must when putting the engine and box in together as someone needs to get the back of the box over the nose cone. I found it easier to jack the rear of the car up and leave the front on the ground. Also remember to remove the clutch linkages of the side of the box and remove the shifter. A good idea is to fit a new water pump if you dont know how long the other one has been on there.
#17
_82911_
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Posted 25 December 2005 - 12:16 PM
For LJ and LC 6 cylinder..This is my list...
1:Rocker cover off.
2:Bellhousing and clutch on
3:Water pump off.
4:Back off car 2' off the ground and stands under it.
5:Bonnet off, unless your hinges are stuffed, then you can just prop it up a bit further with a broomstick!
Bit of angle on the engine and in she goes!
For LJ /LC V8 drop the crossmember and motor transmission then lift the body off and rollit away, Don't forget the brake lines!
Cheers Greg..
1:Rocker cover off.
2:Bellhousing and clutch on
3:Water pump off.
4:Back off car 2' off the ground and stands under it.
5:Bonnet off, unless your hinges are stuffed, then you can just prop it up a bit further with a broomstick!
Bit of angle on the engine and in she goes!
For LJ /LC V8 drop the crossmember and motor transmission then lift the body off and rollit away, Don't forget the brake lines!
Cheers Greg..
Edited by 82911, 25 December 2005 - 12:16 PM.
#18
_LC2250_
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Posted 26 December 2005 - 10:53 AM
The rocker cover definitely did hit against the heater box ... no matter ... it's out now.
The motor that is going back in is a reco'ed bottom end ... nothing to special but it has a rebuilt head.
One thing I never realised until we tried to put it on the new one ... the flywheel from the 138 is different to the one from a 202.
Is this supposed to be like this? It was a lot of fun figuring that out ... luckily a mate had a spare 202 one which needs a bit of a machining.
The old clutch still has a fair bit of life left in it ... is that going to fit onto this new flywheel? Or do I need a whole new clutch ... grrr ...
Oh yeah, and my engine mounts are fine ... they look quite new actually.
Cheers
-Al
The motor that is going back in is a reco'ed bottom end ... nothing to special but it has a rebuilt head.
One thing I never realised until we tried to put it on the new one ... the flywheel from the 138 is different to the one from a 202.
Is this supposed to be like this? It was a lot of fun figuring that out ... luckily a mate had a spare 202 one which needs a bit of a machining.The old clutch still has a fair bit of life left in it ... is that going to fit onto this new flywheel? Or do I need a whole new clutch ... grrr ...
Oh yeah, and my engine mounts are fine ... they look quite new actually.
Cheers
-Al
#19
surfmaster
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Posted 26 December 2005 - 11:08 AM
Why is the flywheel different - can you describe the differences - i wouldnt be putting an old clutch plate onto a newly machined flywheel - better to mate up two new surfaces than a new one and a worn one if you get my drift - unfortunately that means replacing the pressure plate too :( - at the end of the day its your hard earned sheckels, although i think its better to do it right once than have to pull the box out again to replace the clutch.
Edited by surfmaster, 26 December 2005 - 11:13 AM.
#20
_LC2250_
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Posted 26 December 2005 - 11:26 AM
the bolt pattern that connects the flywheel to what I think is part of the crank ... maybe this has a different crank or something ... I hope it is supposed to be like this ... could the clutch be slightly machined to make it suit ... the clutch is quite new (1000km'ish) I'd rather not have to pay for a new one but if I have to I have to I guess.
#21
surfmaster
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Posted 26 December 2005 - 11:33 AM
If I remember corrrectly the flywheel only goes on one way, turn it to see if the bolt holes line up that way - (i think i am reading the problem right?) With the clutch - if the clutch has wear on it it will wear the flywheel chewing out the newly machined surface. If the clutch plate only has 1k on it you may get away with it it does seem a shame to waste a near new clutch. Make sure the bronze spigot bush is in the crank on the new motor or the front bearing in your gear box is gonna cop a hammering and die young.
#22
_Keithy's_UC_
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Posted 26 December 2005 - 01:58 PM
Ive never heard of the flywheel being different sizes!! Its news to me! Anyway, regarding the clutch, there's a rule. New motor, new clutch. That applies to any car at any age.
Sometimes flywheels can be difficult to manouvre into place, try getting a brick or something under it while you line up at least 2 bolt holes! I had fun getting the 179 pressure plate back on! I thought there was something seriously wrong until i jiggled it around a bit and all bolts went on without drama!
Keith
P.S. Have you found any problems so far that your gonna run into?? If so, ask away, we'll all help you out!
Sometimes flywheels can be difficult to manouvre into place, try getting a brick or something under it while you line up at least 2 bolt holes! I had fun getting the 179 pressure plate back on! I thought there was something seriously wrong until i jiggled it around a bit and all bolts went on without drama!
Keith
P.S. Have you found any problems so far that your gonna run into?? If so, ask away, we'll all help you out!
#23
_LC2250_
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Posted 26 December 2005 - 02:37 PM
I'm getting a bit concearned about this flywheel business ... the flywheel definitely doesn't fit on the new one and yes that is correct that it only fits on one way (there are marks to line up to help). I wonder if this crank is from another motor or something ...
So in conclusion here ... the old flywheel does not fit on the new 202 block ... the other flywheel that I have (in need of machining) does fit on the new block but I am concearned that the flywheel that is to be machine will not suit my old clutch ... I'm not concearned about having to buy a new clutch but it would be nice to at least order the right one to suit the flywheel etc.
Oh yeah, that spigot bush was a bitch to get in right ... ended up putting a big flat piece of wood on the end and hitting it with a rubber mellet.
Thanks again all for your ongoing help
-Al
So in conclusion here ... the old flywheel does not fit on the new 202 block ... the other flywheel that I have (in need of machining) does fit on the new block but I am concearned that the flywheel that is to be machine will not suit my old clutch ... I'm not concearned about having to buy a new clutch but it would be nice to at least order the right one to suit the flywheel etc.
Oh yeah, that spigot bush was a bitch to get in right ... ended up putting a big flat piece of wood on the end and hitting it with a rubber mellet.
Thanks again all for your ongoing help
-Al
#24
_IPRALC4Door_
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Posted 27 December 2005 - 07:29 AM
As I understand it, the standard rubber bushes can wear and flex. Depending on where the bush actually is, this means you can get slight geometry changes while cornering, for example, with the resulting detrimental effects on handling. The Nolathane ones are harder, and dont allow this flexing to happen as readily, so you get better handling.Just one last annoying question ... I've heard good things about these nolathene bushes ... but what do they actually do that is so good or better than standard?
That's how I've had it explained to me, anyway. Suspension and so on's not my strong point.
#25
_bones_
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Posted 27 December 2005 - 07:53 AM
Check to see if the engine has had the steel welsh plugs replaced, if not spend the time and money to do it with the engine out. The steel ones rust out. Brass ones last for ages.
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