Surely some of you have put a T5 in before! Any help / comments / thoughts greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
T5 Conversion
Started by
_oikurtman_
, Dec 26 2006 06:54 PM
32 replies to this topic
#2
_Toranamuk_
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Posted 26 December 2006 - 08:56 PM
If Kaz can come & take some pics & post them i've got one on my hoist now.
When/if she posts the pics i'll run you through the clutch pedal mods as well.
When/if she posts the pics i'll run you through the clutch pedal mods as well.
#3
_oikurtman_
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Posted 26 December 2006 - 09:20 PM
Oh please do! And if you could talk me through the tunnel and shifter clearances too that'd be awesome! 
Cheers.
Cheers.
#5
_oikurtman_
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Posted 28 December 2006 - 09:15 PM
NICE WORK!
A few questions for you Craig...
1) Where did you get the cross member from?
2) How far back did you need to bring the hole in the floor?
3) When you cut the hole in the floor, did you actually cut into the arch support or only the thin stuff?
4) Was that engine a tight fit at the back?
5) What extractors have you got? Are they a custom VN / Torana style or are they just standard torana ones? (not sure if the exhaust ports in the heads are the same or not).
Cheers!
A few questions for you Craig...
1) Where did you get the cross member from?
2) How far back did you need to bring the hole in the floor?
3) When you cut the hole in the floor, did you actually cut into the arch support or only the thin stuff?
4) Was that engine a tight fit at the back?
5) What extractors have you got? Are they a custom VN / Torana style or are they just standard torana ones? (not sure if the exhaust ports in the heads are the same or not).
Cheers!
#6
_JNR_ATE_
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Posted 29 December 2006 - 11:59 AM
That crossmember looks like its a CRS crossmember, same as mine to suit TH350.
Yeah, any info on the clutch linkage setup and pics would be good, cable or hydraulic.
Whats the box out of?
Cheers
JNR_ATE
Yeah, any info on the clutch linkage setup and pics would be good, cable or hydraulic.
Whats the box out of?
Cheers
JNR_ATE
#7
_Toranamuk_
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Posted 29 December 2006 - 11:16 PM
The engine & T5 G/Box is from a VQ commy ute.
I didn't fit the engine & g/box, a local panel beater fitted it, i just have to wire it & fix up fitment problems.
The engine has the wrong engine mount brackets fitted (HQ), which caused extra problems with the extractors. The engine sits lower & further forward then it does with the original Torana V8 mounts. This causes the extractors to sit on or touch the outrigger leg on the X-member.
Pacemaker did the extractors, took several reworks, but eventually they fitted.
The bell housing needs to be cut away for the extractors to pass through.
The gearbox X-member is from CRS, & to fit the T5 in, the sub frame brace needs to be cut & boxed, approx 40mm in from the spot welded seam.
Kaz's photo's shows it fairly well. Thanks Kaz.
Use the stock VN type cable clutch bell housing & the clutch pedal from a 6cyl Aussie 4sp UC torana. The clutch pedal needs to be modified to suit the longer V8 clutch fork to get the pivot ratio correct. Use a std UC 6cyl aust 4sp clutch cable.
I'll ask Kaz nicely to take some more pics of the modified clutch pedal & dash panel next week. Then I'll explain some more about it.
I'll try to be back on line over the weekend, if not, it;ll be during next week.
I didn't fit the engine & g/box, a local panel beater fitted it, i just have to wire it & fix up fitment problems.
The engine has the wrong engine mount brackets fitted (HQ), which caused extra problems with the extractors. The engine sits lower & further forward then it does with the original Torana V8 mounts. This causes the extractors to sit on or touch the outrigger leg on the X-member.
Pacemaker did the extractors, took several reworks, but eventually they fitted.
The bell housing needs to be cut away for the extractors to pass through.
The gearbox X-member is from CRS, & to fit the T5 in, the sub frame brace needs to be cut & boxed, approx 40mm in from the spot welded seam.
Kaz's photo's shows it fairly well. Thanks Kaz.
Use the stock VN type cable clutch bell housing & the clutch pedal from a 6cyl Aussie 4sp UC torana. The clutch pedal needs to be modified to suit the longer V8 clutch fork to get the pivot ratio correct. Use a std UC 6cyl aust 4sp clutch cable.
I'll ask Kaz nicely to take some more pics of the modified clutch pedal & dash panel next week. Then I'll explain some more about it.
I'll try to be back on line over the weekend, if not, it;ll be during next week.
#9
antelopeslr5000
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Posted 30 December 2006 - 07:19 AM
Hi Toranamuk.
I'm actually quite suprised the modifications needed to get the T5 to fit into the Torana. I would have thought it would have been a more straight forward fit (no cutting of the bellhousing & cut and boxing of the subframe).
Is there any reason for using HQ mounts? Does it give you more bonnet clearance for the 5 litre EFI or is there another reason you're not using Torana V8 mounts?
The fitted gearbox looks the goods! Well done.
I'm actually quite suprised the modifications needed to get the T5 to fit into the Torana. I would have thought it would have been a more straight forward fit (no cutting of the bellhousing & cut and boxing of the subframe).
Is there any reason for using HQ mounts? Does it give you more bonnet clearance for the 5 litre EFI or is there another reason you're not using Torana V8 mounts?
The fitted gearbox looks the goods! Well done.
#10
_Toranamuk_
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Posted 30 December 2006 - 02:09 PM
The engine should have the Torana engine mount brackets fitted.
It would have helped with extractor clearance, but made clearance at the back of the motor worse.
Theres some pics of how i normally modify the heater box to obtain the extra clearance at the back of the engine.
It would have helped with extractor clearance, but made clearance at the back of the motor worse.
Theres some pics of how i normally modify the heater box to obtain the extra clearance at the back of the engine.
#11
antelopeslr5000
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Posted 01 January 2007 - 07:00 AM
I fitted a T56 to my LX awhile back. Pretty straight forward fit.
I didn't need to modify the extractors and I didn't have to cut the bell housing for extractor clearance.
Also the sub frame brace didn't need to be cut and boxed.
I was able to retain the same shift location of the M21.
A custom cross member had to be fabricated and the clutch was changed to a hydraulic setup.
I didn't need to modify the extractors and I didn't have to cut the bell housing for extractor clearance.
Also the sub frame brace didn't need to be cut and boxed.
I was able to retain the same shift location of the M21.
A custom cross member had to be fabricated and the clutch was changed to a hydraulic setup.
#12
_oikurtman_
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Posted 02 January 2007 - 08:57 AM
WOW!
Antelope...
Where did you get your bellhousing, cross member etc ?
What engine have you got in front of it?
What clutch assembly are you running?
How did you go with your reverse lights?
Cheers.
Antelope...
Where did you get your bellhousing, cross member etc ?
What engine have you got in front of it?
What clutch assembly are you running?
How did you go with your reverse lights?
Cheers.
#13
_bodallafella_
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Posted 02 January 2007 - 11:26 AM
The photo above looks like the one that Mal Wood sent me when he was trying to convince me to use a T-56 instead of a TKO. The crossmember is from Castlemaine Rod shop and he told me he used a late model commodore slave cylinder but he didn't make it sound so straightforward. In fact he said he had the car for three months and the conversion cost around $10K. In the end I bought a TKO from elsewhere for nearly half the price he quoted as I found some of Mal's advice to be a bit dodgy. For example, he told me that the T-56 handles more torque than the TKO but a quick visit to the Tremec website shows that this is false. I got the impression that he makes more profit on a T-56 so that is what he pushes.
#14
_bodallafella_
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Posted 02 January 2007 - 11:47 AM
Sorry last post should say master cylinder, not slave.
#15
fuzzypumper
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Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:29 PM
It seems that if youre over 6 foot tall the new shifter position on the T5 conversion wouldnt be a problem. Otherwise it might feel like your reaching into the back seat to change gears, the posture position might be very wrong.
#16
_rorym_
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Posted 03 January 2007 - 04:01 PM
Careful with the T5 also...I looked at it until I worked out that first gear was 3.29 or something stupid.
R
R
#17
antelopeslr5000
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Posted 04 January 2007 - 06:07 AM
Hi bodallafella.
You're correct! Mal Wood did install my T56. Although expensive, (it wasn't quite $10K) it did included more than just the gearbox.
The gearbox isn't the standard T56 variety, it is a rebuilt T56 rated to 800 ft-lb (do a Google search for G-Force T56 or click here).
Also a new Ford 9" 3.7 ratio LSD diff was fitted.
Although I kept the same extractors, the exhaust system was modified for clearance.
So the total price included...
* The rebuilt T56 gearbox
* New 9" diff
* Exhaust mods
* New clutch and hydraulic clutch setup
* New lightweight flywheel and starter motor
* Short throw shifter and gear knob
* Tilt tray costs
* All labour
As for dodgy advise, Mal and his staff could not have been more helpful. He kept me up to date with the progress with emails, pictures and phone calls (and I'm living in the UK by the way so they wouldn't of been cheap calls!). As I was in no rush for my car, it was a side project for Mal and he would work on it when he had spare time, hence the reason it took 3 months. Basically he used my car as a test mule to develop a kit for fitment of the T56 into a LH/LX.
I must admit, Mal loves to do the job right, no expense spared! That may not sit well with some people but I have the same philosophy.
The quaility of workmanship is great, it looks like the Torana left the factory with the T56 as a fitment option.
You're correct! Mal Wood did install my T56. Although expensive, (it wasn't quite $10K) it did included more than just the gearbox.
The gearbox isn't the standard T56 variety, it is a rebuilt T56 rated to 800 ft-lb (do a Google search for G-Force T56 or click here).
Also a new Ford 9" 3.7 ratio LSD diff was fitted.
Although I kept the same extractors, the exhaust system was modified for clearance.
So the total price included...
* The rebuilt T56 gearbox
* New 9" diff
* Exhaust mods
* New clutch and hydraulic clutch setup
* New lightweight flywheel and starter motor
* Short throw shifter and gear knob
* Tilt tray costs
* All labour
As for dodgy advise, Mal and his staff could not have been more helpful. He kept me up to date with the progress with emails, pictures and phone calls (and I'm living in the UK by the way so they wouldn't of been cheap calls!). As I was in no rush for my car, it was a side project for Mal and he would work on it when he had spare time, hence the reason it took 3 months. Basically he used my car as a test mule to develop a kit for fitment of the T56 into a LH/LX.
I must admit, Mal loves to do the job right, no expense spared! That may not sit well with some people but I have the same philosophy.
The quaility of workmanship is great, it looks like the Torana left the factory with the T56 as a fitment option.
#18
_AGGRO_
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Posted 04 January 2007 - 01:01 PM
Ahhh so urs was the LH with the T-56 and hydraulic set up that Mal kept tellin me about! and i couldnt agree more, Mal gave me great advice and help, always very helpful and does a brilliant job, all his parts that he makes are top quality! and he even helped me locate a TKO 600 wen he knew i couldnt afford a brand new one and he even paid for the freight costs to get it from canberra up to his shop then he stripped it down for me free of charge!
#19
_bodallafella_
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Posted 04 January 2007 - 04:25 PM
I didn't realise the price included the diff so it does seem a bit more reasonable now but I got my TKO600 for $1500 less than Mal quoted me for the same box so his prices are definately inflated. I suspect he may have exaggerated the price of the TKO to make his T-56 look like a better deal.
Is your T-56 an actual G-Force box or is it one of Mal's modded boxes? The box he wanted to sell me was a Commodore type unit that he rebuilds with a different gear set. He wasn't very forthcoming with technical specs either. When I asked him how much torque it would handle he said "Pfftt.. more than a TKO" and left it at that.
But the main reason I posted was that I thought your original post suggested that you had done the conversion yourself and you made it seem a lot simpler than it really is. To be honest, I was wondering how a "straight forward" conversion could possibly cost so much and take so long.
cheers,
Nick
Is your T-56 an actual G-Force box or is it one of Mal's modded boxes? The box he wanted to sell me was a Commodore type unit that he rebuilds with a different gear set. He wasn't very forthcoming with technical specs either. When I asked him how much torque it would handle he said "Pfftt.. more than a TKO" and left it at that.
But the main reason I posted was that I thought your original post suggested that you had done the conversion yourself and you made it seem a lot simpler than it really is. To be honest, I was wondering how a "straight forward" conversion could possibly cost so much and take so long.
cheers,
Nick
Edited by bodallafella, 04 January 2007 - 04:32 PM.
#20
_rorym_
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Posted 04 January 2007 - 10:01 PM
I dont know if dodgy is the right word for Mal but I just finished reading the first edition AMC which has an article on him fitting a T56 to a WB ute. He goes on about Over Speed Overload when using 5th and 6th gear below 100kph and wanted to fit a 4.3 diff to make the 2 top gears be actually in the right spacings as he says.(My VY SV8 works just fine with them I need to add and I drive around in 5th and 6th under 100kph MOST of the time without any dramas) My problem with all his theory is....I am pretty sure a multi billion $ company like GM might know what they are on about a bit more than a gearbox rebuilder in Warwick Country Qld.
Just my 2c.
R
Just my 2c.
R
Edited by rorym, 04 January 2007 - 10:03 PM.
#21
antelopeslr5000
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Posted 05 January 2007 - 08:33 AM
I think it's very clever marketing from GMH (taller gearing/better fuel economy figures). Especially when Ford were only offering a 5 speed variety.
The 5.7 Gen III has plenty of torque so the the wide ratio gearing really isn't a problem for normal suburban driving. However, and this is only my opinion, the T56 Holden offers is basically a 5 speed gearbox with an extra overdrive. I can reach top speed in 5th gear in my VY SS.
The difference between the T56 in the VY SS and the LX is quite remarkable! Shifting between gears in the Torana is so smooth, effortless and precise., they are light years apart. Although the T56 in the SS is a good box it pales in comparison. The close ratio 6 speed box (again, in my opinion!) is a better performer. The closer ratios are just more usable.
The 5.7 Gen III has plenty of torque so the the wide ratio gearing really isn't a problem for normal suburban driving. However, and this is only my opinion, the T56 Holden offers is basically a 5 speed gearbox with an extra overdrive. I can reach top speed in 5th gear in my VY SS.
The difference between the T56 in the VY SS and the LX is quite remarkable! Shifting between gears in the Torana is so smooth, effortless and precise., they are light years apart. Although the T56 in the SS is a good box it pales in comparison. The close ratio 6 speed box (again, in my opinion!) is a better performer. The closer ratios are just more usable.
#22
_L31SLR_
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Posted 05 January 2007 - 08:58 AM
I thought that you had to modify the transmission tunnel to fit the T56 into a Torana. Are any tunnel mods required? If not the T56 sounds like a great idea for someone that lives 1500kms from the nearest Hungry Jacks!
Charlie L31SLR
Charlie L31SLR
#23
_Toranamuk_
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Posted 05 January 2007 - 10:31 PM
antelopeslr5000,
Can you please put up some more detailed pics of your T56 conversion, like the spacer between the bellhousing & engine, shifter housing mods, which master cyl etc etc.
The reason i ask is that i have 4 brand new T56 6sp gearboxes & 1 S/H 6sp sitting in my workshop right now, & they're a lot bigger & longer than the T5 5sp gearboxes i have sitting next to them.
2 of the boxes are suppost to be the export ratio 5th & 6th, apparently not as tall in both overdrives ??? i'll check them when i start fitment.
I have spoken to Mal Wood about the spacer required to obtain the correct input shaft depths, but i got a mixed answer as to the shifter position mods.
I am a bit off before i start to fit 2 of the new g/boxes, 1 is going in a 1 tonner & 1 into a VL walkinshaw (mockup) as a Tarmac rally car. Both stroker 308's.
I will post some pics shortly of the clutch pedal mods for the cable setup very soon, i have to pull the pedal back out & then ask Kaz nicely to take some more pics.
Craig
Can you please put up some more detailed pics of your T56 conversion, like the spacer between the bellhousing & engine, shifter housing mods, which master cyl etc etc.
The reason i ask is that i have 4 brand new T56 6sp gearboxes & 1 S/H 6sp sitting in my workshop right now, & they're a lot bigger & longer than the T5 5sp gearboxes i have sitting next to them.
2 of the boxes are suppost to be the export ratio 5th & 6th, apparently not as tall in both overdrives ??? i'll check them when i start fitment.
I have spoken to Mal Wood about the spacer required to obtain the correct input shaft depths, but i got a mixed answer as to the shifter position mods.
I am a bit off before i start to fit 2 of the new g/boxes, 1 is going in a 1 tonner & 1 into a VL walkinshaw (mockup) as a Tarmac rally car. Both stroker 308's.
I will post some pics shortly of the clutch pedal mods for the cable setup very soon, i have to pull the pedal back out & then ask Kaz nicely to take some more pics.
Craig
#24
_L31SLR_
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Posted 08 March 2007 - 02:44 PM
I'm not trying to get this thread going in the wrong direction but can anyone tell me if you have to do trans tunnel modifications to get a T56 into a Torana? Can someone that has done this conversion post up some step by step pics? Maybe I should start a new thread for T56 into Torana? If I can get one into the LH without cutting and shutting I think I would like to go that way.
Cheers
Charlie L31SLR
Cheers
Charlie L31SLR
#25
_Toranamuk_
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Posted 08 March 2007 - 11:40 PM
With the mods to the subframe that is needed to fit a T5, a T56 will require a lot more tunnel & subframe reworking.
The shifter position(s) are further back, & the extension housing is larger around the shifter housing area.
I will not be back until monday week (19th), but i will line up an Aussie 4sp, Supra 5sp, Turbo Supra 5sp, T5 & a T56 so that you can all see the difference in size of the gearboxes & shifter locations.
I am suppost to be converting a 1 tonner & a Tarmac Rally VL Walky mock up soon to T56's,, but this maybe 6 to 8 months away.
Craig
The shifter position(s) are further back, & the extension housing is larger around the shifter housing area.
I will not be back until monday week (19th), but i will line up an Aussie 4sp, Supra 5sp, Turbo Supra 5sp, T5 & a T56 so that you can all see the difference in size of the gearboxes & shifter locations.
I am suppost to be converting a 1 tonner & a Tarmac Rally VL Walky mock up soon to T56's,, but this maybe 6 to 8 months away.
Craig
Edited by Toranamuk, 08 March 2007 - 11:42 PM.
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