512 replies to this topic

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

Thats the same tyre used on the 1973 cars B70H13. The only difference between your car and the one i,ve posted is your car is 1 of 100 5/5V cars produced to homologate the 3.55 diff ratio and the one i,ve posted is 1 of 200 5/5V cars produced to homologate the cam, springs & flywheel. 300 5/5V cars in total......
100 for (3.55 diff ratio)
200 for (Cam, springs & flywheel)

So we are left with P48 and 5(175 SR 13 RADIAL PLY). Could a 175 be used on a 6 inch rim ?

Does anyone else have a broadcast sheet for a 1972 XU-1 ?????

and what the hell is P48..................

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

^^^^^^ This is a photo of Bondy at Surfers Paradise,s opening round of the South Pacific touring car series on Sunday the 6th of February 1972. Im all most certain this was the reason Holden fudged there production numbers and to fast track homologation 3/3V (Wheel Spacers & Track). Both Bazza & myself have verified that Holden only produced 200 cars in the months of January & February 1972.



Cheeky devils !!!!!!!!!!!

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

1972 LJ GTR XU-1 PRODUCTION FIGURES

These production figures have been verified by both Bazza & myself.

January (H2-3)
February
200

March (3/3V)
April
May
June
July (1/1V)
400

August (2/2V)
200 (Including the 9 Adelaide built cars completed on Friday 1-9-1972)

September (5/5V)
October (Up to & including L216000 & H250907)
300

October (4/4V)
November
December
306

GRAND TOTAL 1406

Minimum number required 1300

H2-3 200
1/1V 200
2/2V 200
3/3V 200
4/4V 200
5/5V 300




Of these cars :

March (3/3V)
April
May
June
July (1/1V)
400

It is my belief that the last of the 200 3/3V cars were completed on Wednesday 17-5-1972. (Oddly enough this was the date that the new head was cast E172) With the first of the 1/1V cars rolling off the lines on Thursday 18-5-1972.

So this myth that Bathurst XU-1,s are 8th & 9th month plated cars is just that A MYTH. We only have to travel back to 1971 with the 300 CK LC Bathurst XU-1,s. These 300 cars were built in the months of September, October, November & December 1971.

Cheers, B.

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

Thanks for the heads up, Rory We certainly have had a few differing opinions over time but thats nothing new for XU-1 torana enthusiasts. Very touchy subject at times !!!!!!!!!
I,ve noticed Glenn (ultrabluea9x) is thinking about selling his Lone Oranger 06-72 LJ XU-1. (Price Check)






We now know that Holden produced 600 LJ XU-1,s from January to the end of July 1972. In this time there were 3 homologations H2-3, 3/3V & 1/1V with each homologation requiring a minimum of 200.
(Ultrabluea9x) Glenns car comes under homologation 1/1V.



In my opinion this car should be classed as a Bathurst XU-1.

Whats your opinion on this one R ?

B.

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

(LOL)

Got outa that one easy 3

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

Seriously though.................

I think that all that is left to be done now is to work out which homologations were for which batches of cars................

1972 Production 1406

Jan
Feb 200

Mar
Apr
May
Jun
Jul 400

Aug
Sep
Oct 500

Oct
Nov
Dec 306


1972 Homologations

H2-3 (Minimum required 200)
1/1V ( " " 200)
2/2V ( " " 200)
3/3V ( " " 200)
4/4V ( " " 200)
5/5V ( " " 300)

Total minimum required 1300


The thing that has me a little worried in all this is did homologation 3 (3/3V) come before homologation 1 (1/1V) & 2 (2/2V) ? One thing for sure, the H2-3 cars were built in January & February.
Im hoping Dr Terry may be able to wave his magic wand over this and make sence of it all. If it did go in order 1 (1/1V) Detroit Locker & 2 (2/2V) Sprintmasters then the scene would have been set for holden to produce another 200 LJ XU-1,s with V8,s in them around July, August and away they go ...................

But we all know what happened on Friday, June the 30th 1972 dont we .........................

We are so, so close with the only thing now to be known is which batch of cars were for which homologations .......................








B.

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

To fully understand what a 1972 Bathurst XU-1 is we must go chasing the facts rather than reading fiction................

The facts that will tell us what a 1972 Bathurst is, are

1 : C.A.M.S Rules
2 : C.A.M.S Homologations
3 : Holden Production Figures (Vin Disc)
4 : Holden Production Broadcast Sheets

I will attempt to bring you as many facts as i can. Ill start with 1 : The 1972 C.A.M.S Rules

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

2 : Eligibility and the C.A.M.S Homologations


H2-3 (Eligibility)


Holden letter to C.A.M.S. stating the 5 Homologations


Homologation 1/1V (Detroit Locker)


Homologation 2/2V (Sprintmaster Rim & Track)


Homologation 3/3V (Track For Nibless Rims)


Homologation 4/4V (Track For Sprintmaster Rims)


Homologation 5/5V (Cam, Springs, Flywheel & 3.55 Diff Ratio)


So if i have red the C.A.M.S. Rules & the C.A.M.S. Homologations correctly, That would mean that Holden had to produce a minimum of 1300 LJ XU-1,s in 1972. (Correct ???)

H2-3 : 200
1/1V : 200
2/2V : 200
3/3V : 200
4/4V : 200
5/5V : 300 (200 for cam etc, 100 for 3.55)

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

3 : Holden Production Figures (Vin Disk)

According to the Holden vin disk, Bazza & myself, Holden produced a total of 1406 LJ XU-1,s in 1972.

From January to the end of July they produced 600 LJ XU-1,s.
From August to the end of December they produced 806 LJ XU-1,s

[WhiteA9XS]

so fly , are you now saying gmh produced 1300 bathurst xu1,s ?

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

No, not at all 830hp. What i am suggesting is that according to the CAMS Rules & the CAMS Homologations the minimum number of XU-1,s that needed to be produced in 1972 was 1300.

From January to the end of July Holden had produced a total of 600 LJ XU-1,s. These cars may well of covered

H2-3 Eligibility (3-2-1972) 200
3/3V Track (3-2-1972) 200
1/1V Detroit Locker (1-7-1972) 200

From August to the end of December Holden had produced a further 806 LJ XU-1,s with perhaps the required minimum being 700 in this time frame.

2/2V Sprintmasters & Track (10-8-1972) 200
4/4V Errata Track (10-8-1972) 200
5/5V Cam, Springs, Flywheel (29-8-1972) 200 3.55 Diff Ratio 100

Thus suggesting the 1972 Bathurst run may well of consisted of 700 LJ XU-1,s needing to be built. Not all August built XU-1,s recieved the sprintmaster rims..............

From the 15th of August till the end of December 1972, Holden had produced a total of 699 LJ XU-1,s with a question mark still hanging over 1 which would give us a total of 700 LJ XU-1,s built in this time frame.





^^^^^^^^^ Typo ????? Certainly all the cars being built around this time were XU-1,s.

It would be interesting to hear from the guys that own August built XU-1,s letting us know when there car was completed and what rims were originally fitted to there cars.

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

Any xu1 built from the 1st sept 72 would have a different vin plate. C=73 and would be classed as a 73 car by GM. I'm not sure if CAMS would regard these cars as 72 or 73 production.
BoB

I can see were your coming from BoB, but it was,nt until the 10/72 plated cars started rolling off production lines that the new vin plates began. Even though you will find the paperwork had the new system in use for September built cars.



From January up until the new vin system was fitted to the 10/72 plated cars Holden had produced a total of 1100 LJ XU-1,s. 600 from January till the end of July & a further 500 8th & 9th month plated cars. Im assuming these 500 8th & 9th month plated cars were built to cover Homologations 2/2V (Sprintmasters) 200 & 5/5V (Cam, Springs, Flywheel, 3.55 Diff Ratio) 300. Leaving only the Homologation 4/4V (Track) cars to be completed in the following months.

From when the new vin plates were introduced until the end of December 1972 Holden had built a further 306 LJ XU-1,s (Maybe 307 ?)

October 41
November 223
December 42

Total 306

To my knowledge the original self locating sprintmaster rims came in 2 batches. The first batch being dated 6/72 and the second batch being dated 11/72. I have only a photo of the first batch rim dated the 6/72.



So why the extra 106 cars ? Maybe it was a case of win on Sunday sell on Monday.......................

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

G/Day CK
Im only guessing but could it be that D = Day as it is above the month & year........



ie 20-6-1972 ? sorta makes sence ?


Anyone got a pic of a genuine 11/72 sprintmaster rim ?

Edited by FLY_AGAIN_XU-1, 13 May 2008 - 11:42 PM.

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

Quote : (Para 4) Recognition

Such additional forms shall be accepted only if at least 50% of the required minimum number of cars have been sold. (See para. 3, supra)

End Quote :



Quote : (Para 3) Minimum Production and Sales

(i) If manufactured or assembled in Australia, they shall be one of at least 200 basically identical units which have been sold in Australia.

End Quote :


What this is saying is that before CAMS would consider a homologation, 50% (100 cars) of the required minimum (200 cars) needed to have been all ready sold.

As for a 1972 car being classed as a 1973 car im unsure. All these cars were fitted with 1972 ADR plates, had 1972 chassis numbers, all were built in 1972 with the majority also being sold in 1972. Then theres all ways this section in paragraph 4 Recognition........

Quote : (Para 4) Recognition

Whenever the scrutiny of a car shows complete compliance of it with its recognition or acceptance form, the year of manufacture shall be immaterial.

End Quote :


I hope this has cleared up a few things





Thanks for the pictures of the November 1972 dated sprintmasters UFO............

[yel327]

Motoring News..July 14th 1972..

Quote: " The whole deal was cancelled not so much because of media hysteria but the acting managing director rang the US head office after this newspaper article came out to ask advice on the ' racing car ' GM-H were builiding. As GM officially had a no race corporate policy at the time you can imagine the response."

Okay so if the V8 XU1 was cancelled because of the no racing policy then why did GMH produce firstly a Bathurst Monaro (327 & 350) and then the XU1. Surely the no racing policy would have prevented these cars being produced in the first place. Without the media hype and more importantly the ultimatum put to GMH, Ford and Chrysler by the transport Minister of the time these cars would have gone into production. The whole supercar scare was brought about by Evan Green writing his infamous newspaper article which started the whole thing rolling. The threat of losing government fleet sales was the main reason the V8 XU1 one was caned.

I know this is an old post but it raises an interesting question. Holden made what we now call the Bathurst HK and HT Monaros (ie HK 1837 and HT 1837 manual) in order to HIDE them from GM. At the time the factory high performance stuff were option codes on existing models eg L88 Camaro. Evidence suggests the HK GTS327 Monaro (or HK 1837) was to simply be a GTS (ie 737) with engine option L34. This is indeed how the V8 (307) examples of all other HK vehicles were treated eg 737 was standard with 186S or optional with L30 (307). So once it became clear that the 307 wasn't going to be good enough to beat Ford in the new Monaro range GM-H made a new model altogether - 1837, which happened to come standard with the 327, and there were no powerful engine options there to attract attention from the USA.
This remains as a little piece of Holden history in that (ignoring one of the Brabham Toranas) the HK-HQ 1837 GTS Monaros are the only "prenium performance" Holdens to be a "model" in their own right, and not an optioned up lesser spec vehicle. For example an XU-1 of any calibre is an option on a GTR, an L34 on an SLR5000 (which in turn is an optioned SLR) etc etc.

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

Fly
I have been given copy of a letter to a Xu1 owner from Gmh regarding his 11 mth 72 xu1 stating that it is an example of one of their 73 cars.
Also the body plates changed in 12/72 and the upgrades for the new adr's started to come in at that time. Amber blinkers, bumpers ect.

This is a letter i got from holden for a 04-08-1972 built LJ XU-1. (Note) Build 1972.



This is a letter i got from holden for a 18-09-1972 built LJ XU-1. (Note) Build 1973.

As we know Holdens new system began from the 1st of September 1972. (8D11PC) but was,nt used on the cars vin plate till October 1972. This was just holdens new system and a stupid one at that...............

The real key to determining weather you have a 1972 or 1973 car is simple :

ALJ Chassis number and 16 ADR,s = 1972
BLJ Chassis number and 21 ADR,s = 1973