anyone know of any rods that can fit a holden 6 that can withstand 8000+rpm?
something like H beam chev rods i was thinking, any ideas of toughening up the bottom end? im going to add a main cap girdle to help.
8000+ RPM holden 6
Started by
_why-psi_
, Feb 26 2007 09:40 PM
29 replies to this topic
#2
_82911_
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Posted 26 February 2007 - 09:47 PM
If you are seriously considering going nuts on a holden 6 and want to do it properly.. PM me
Cheers Greg..
Cheers Greg..
#3
Dangerous
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Posted 28 February 2007 - 06:57 PM
8,000 plus is also gunna be fun keeping the head on, isn't it?
#5
makka
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Posted 28 February 2007 - 07:58 PM
^:+1: I have gotta start screwing one together for dad, you will have a PM coming your way soon Greg
#6
_70rey_
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Posted 28 February 2007 - 08:02 PM
can i ask why u wanna rev her about 8 grand mate???
#7
_why-psi_
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Posted 28 February 2007 - 10:22 PM
a mate of mine had a white lj with a 208 stroker, that thing went to 8500 and a few times it went higher. the sound was unbelievable. my current Cam makes power till 7500 but i never rev it over 5000 as the motors pretty tired. i want a bottom end to handle 8000 so i can use the whole cam safely and reliably
#8
_runna_202_
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Posted 28 February 2007 - 10:56 PM
can i ask what type of cam shaft you are using, it must have some megga duration, sounds like its a wade or an ivan tighe to need a rev range like that.
runna 202
runna 202
#9
_why-psi_
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Posted 28 February 2007 - 11:03 PM
its a heatseeker stage 5. think its got around 308deg duration, 47/78. lost the cam card so not sure of all the specs
#10
_82911_
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Posted 28 February 2007 - 11:41 PM
Heat seeker were Watson cams..
long gone now.
308 adv dur probably around 250@50 take off a bit because it will most likely be a hydraulic as most of the heatseekers were hydraulic if i remember correctly.
lift in the area of .500" I'd say it would be all over red rover by around 7000rpm tops.
On the subject of 8000rpms.. you don't need that sort of engine speed.. SERIOUSLY....
The heads don't flow the air to need those sorts of engine speeds.. well unless you are trying to make 300hp on a 149 red bottom end.Then it is possible that you would need to turn it that hard to use the avaliable airflow.
There is a direct relationship between airflow potential of the head and RPM versus engine displacement...
My opinion is that you shouldn't listen to all you have heard from mates, and mates of mates
Cheers Greg..
long gone now.
308 adv dur probably around 250@50 take off a bit because it will most likely be a hydraulic as most of the heatseekers were hydraulic if i remember correctly.
lift in the area of .500" I'd say it would be all over red rover by around 7000rpm tops.
On the subject of 8000rpms.. you don't need that sort of engine speed.. SERIOUSLY....
The heads don't flow the air to need those sorts of engine speeds.. well unless you are trying to make 300hp on a 149 red bottom end.Then it is possible that you would need to turn it that hard to use the avaliable airflow.
There is a direct relationship between airflow potential of the head and RPM versus engine displacement...
My opinion is that you shouldn't listen to all you have heard from mates, and mates of mates
Cheers Greg..
#11
_runna_202_
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 12:24 AM
i've got a solid crow cam in my engine, its got about 253 dur and about 530''lift
i was recommended it by and engine builder due to the charteristics of the cast iron heads. it makes as its power at about 6800-7000, he recons the cylinder heads fall over after that kind of rpm.
i was recommended it by and engine builder due to the charteristics of the cast iron heads. it makes as its power at about 6800-7000, he recons the cylinder heads fall over after that kind of rpm.
#12
lakeside
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 10:29 AM
because they can, but it kills them. Can tell you all about it. I'm 99% sure the cam in my 300hp 202 has a duration of 340can i ask why u wanna rev her about 8 grand mate???
Edited by lakeside, 01 March 2007 - 10:30 AM.
#13
_Drag lc_
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 05:25 PM
why-psi
may i ask what sort of head you are using, is the current head on a red or blue/black bottom end?
thanks Hayden
may i ask what sort of head you are using, is the current head on a red or blue/black bottom end?
thanks Hayden
#14
_Drag lc_
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 05:47 PM
Lakeside, i gather you had one that revvved right out?, did it let go?
Thanks Hayden
Thanks Hayden
#15
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 06:04 PM
Hey Lakeside.. how many degrees in a full revolution mate?
answer is 360 buddy....
If you had 340 degrees of seat to seat duration on the cam that only leaves 20 degrees of rotation in which to fire the thing and generate downward pressure on the piston crown.
Take from the 20 degrees the 7 or so degrees that the piston dwells at the top of the stroke and you are now down to 13 degrees....
Ignition lead time for a petrol engine is typically 30degrees BTDC to account for the burn rate of gasoline fuel.
Fairly sure most of your still burning charge is going to be coming out the exhaust mate....
Still i could be wrong...
Sorry for the dictatorial lesson in the limits of the otto 4 cycle engine, just all this mine is bigger than yours shit gets a bit much after a while
IT IS ALL ABOUT THE COMBO PEOPLE NOT THE SIZE OF THE COMPONENTS...
can we process the facts please...
Cheers Greg..
answer is 360 buddy....
If you had 340 degrees of seat to seat duration on the cam that only leaves 20 degrees of rotation in which to fire the thing and generate downward pressure on the piston crown.
Take from the 20 degrees the 7 or so degrees that the piston dwells at the top of the stroke and you are now down to 13 degrees....
Ignition lead time for a petrol engine is typically 30degrees BTDC to account for the burn rate of gasoline fuel.
Fairly sure most of your still burning charge is going to be coming out the exhaust mate....
Still i could be wrong...
Sorry for the dictatorial lesson in the limits of the otto 4 cycle engine, just all this mine is bigger than yours shit gets a bit much after a while
IT IS ALL ABOUT THE COMBO PEOPLE NOT THE SIZE OF THE COMPONENTS...
can we process the facts please...
Cheers Greg..
#16
_why-psi_
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 06:21 PM
cheers greg 
makes it all a bit clearer.
the head on it now is a ported red (can reach in and grab the valves) and its on a red bottom end with black crank.
the new motor will have a 12 port head on a blue bottom end
makes it all a bit clearer. the head on it now is a ported red (can reach in and grab the valves) and its on a red bottom end with black crank.
the new motor will have a 12 port head on a blue bottom end
#17
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 07:23 PM
Greg, it works. It makes 300hp on dyno, it's run the times at Calder to prove the dyno was right. When i sent the cam in to checked it's spec, the bloke told me it will never work in a street car, he's wrong and it runs good.
I sent my lc gtr in to have a 1/4 painted before selling(and he f*ck it ), drove home and put in shed. Started the gtr the next day and it broke. I were playing with the carbs and reved it and a funny noise started. I found the cam retainer broken with the 2 screws still tight in the block.
I sent my lc gtr in to have a 1/4 painted before selling(and he f*ck it ), drove home and put in shed. Started the gtr the next day and it broke. I were playing with the carbs and reved it and a funny noise started. I found the cam retainer broken with the 2 screws still tight in the block.
#18
lakeside
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 07:30 PM
sorry greg, it's 322
#19
_Drag lc_
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 08:01 PM
[QUOTE]Greg, just all this mine is bigger than yours shit gets a bit much after a while.
i totaly agree here no matter how hot your motor is, there is bound to be some hot holden 6 powered machine hiding somewhere bigger & better than the last one. 
why-psi, did you find out whitch bottom end to use.
Thanks Hayden
i totaly agree here
no matter how hot your motor is, there is bound to be some hot holden 6 powered machine hiding somewhere bigger & better than the last one. why-psi, did you find out whitch bottom end to use.
Thanks Hayden
Edited by Drag lc, 01 March 2007 - 08:07 PM.
#20
_why-psi_
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 09:40 PM
no havent found out yet. probably a black crank, ARP main studs, main cap girdle, but unsure of what rods to use
#21
_82911_
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 09:52 PM
psi... who is building it for you?
Colin.... 322 degrees sounds better....still a 7/11 grind though (open all hours)
Cheers Greg..
Colin.... 322 degrees sounds better....still a 7/11 grind though (open all hours)
Cheers Greg..
#22
_rorym_
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 10:01 PM
Psst!..Listen closely..He knowd what he be talking about Bwanna!Hey Lakeside.. how many degrees in a full revolution mate?
answer is 360 buddy....
If you had 340 degrees of seat to seat duration on the cam that only leaves 20 degrees of rotation in which to fire the thing and generate downward pressure on the piston crown.
Take from the 20 degrees the 7 or so degrees that the piston dwells at the top of the stroke and you are now down to 13 degrees....
Ignition lead time for a petrol engine is typically 30degrees BTDC to account for the burn rate of gasoline fuel.
Fairly sure most of your still burning charge is going to be coming out the exhaust mate....
Still i could be wrong...
Sorry for the dictatorial lesson in the limits of the otto 4 cycle engine, just all this mine is bigger than yours shit gets a bit much after a while
IT IS ALL ABOUT THE COMBO PEOPLE NOT THE SIZE OF THE COMPONENTS...
can we process the facts please...
Cheers Greg..
R
#23
_why-psi_
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 10:16 PM
no-one is building it yet, still gathering bits for it. was thinking maybe EZE10S performance. his 499hp holden 6 stays together, cant go wrong.
#24
_mikek73xu1_
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Posted 02 March 2007 - 07:30 AM
Just in case anyones interested i thought i'd post my cam spec's and dyno figures [ off a Dynapack hub mounted dyno ]. This is a black bottom end with a flowed 12 port with 3 x 45 webers. Max kw 187 @ 5500 rpm & Max torque 373nm @ 4175 rpm.[ these are @ eng figures given by dyno ]. In the old money this is about 250 eng hp , I regularly have guys commenting on how well my car goes and they tell me they have 300 hp ..... [I do circuit racing so comparitive performance is pretty obvious.]
This is a hyd cam and rocker ratio is 1.5:1
In. Ex.
Camlift: .322" .327"
Valve lift 1.5:1 ratio .487" .490"
Duration at .050" camlift 230 deg 236 deg
Lobe centreline- [ maxlift ] 105 deg atdc 111 btdc
Lobe separation 108 deg
This info is off my cam card and description given is : power range 2900 - 6400 rpm, strong mid range with good top end.
And to drive thats exactly how it is. I could go for a bigger cam and pull more revs but this is a really reliable combo that has enough grunt to have some fun. Plus my budget doesnt allow for engine rebuilds every 5 minutes !
This is a hyd cam and rocker ratio is 1.5:1
In. Ex.
Camlift: .322" .327"
Valve lift 1.5:1 ratio .487" .490"
Duration at .050" camlift 230 deg 236 deg
Lobe centreline- [ maxlift ] 105 deg atdc 111 btdc
Lobe separation 108 deg
This info is off my cam card and description given is : power range 2900 - 6400 rpm, strong mid range with good top end.
And to drive thats exactly how it is. I could go for a bigger cam and pull more revs but this is a really reliable combo that has enough grunt to have some fun. Plus my budget doesnt allow for engine rebuilds every 5 minutes !
Edited by mikek73xu1, 02 March 2007 - 07:39 AM.
#25
_nibbsy_
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Posted 04 March 2007 - 01:41 AM
most things i read say that the old holden 6 is going pretty good if they can rangle 300hp out of it. the head is the worst place for power so i heard, no flow at all.
the latest street machine has an article on how to make a 300hp 202 and its pretty full on. Just hope you have a fair wad of cash or know someone who knows someone.
Although a 300hp 202 in an lj would be awesome fun!!!
Horsepower is horsepower no matter where it comes from!!!!!!!!
nibbsy
the latest street machine has an article on how to make a 300hp 202 and its pretty full on. Just hope you have a fair wad of cash or know someone who knows someone.
Although a 300hp 202 in an lj would be awesome fun!!!
Horsepower is horsepower no matter where it comes from!!!!!!!!
nibbsy
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