Im pricing the Airbag setup for my UC at the moment, very feasable! And allows adjustment of ride height with a good quality firm ride at all heights...
Has anyone done this to their torry?? Anyone know of anyone??
What's everyone's verdict on it?? I may be the first UC with it (street legal - that is)!
Keith
Airbag Suspension
Started by
_Keithy's_UC_
, Jan 11 2006 11:37 PM
20 replies to this topic
#2
MRLXSS
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Posted 12 January 2006 - 07:56 AM
I have never heard or seen airbags in a Torry, but i do agree would love to see it!
Also interested in the price involved...
Nice work
Also interested in the price involved...
Nice work
#3
rodomo
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Posted 12 January 2006 - 08:13 AM
Is this the type where the airbag fills the middle of the spring?
RACV MAN
RACV MAN
#4
shanegtr
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Posted 12 January 2006 - 10:07 AM
I think he's refering to a complete air bag to replace the spring. I looked at it for my cruiser, but the cost was just far to expensive.
#5
GML-31
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Posted 12 January 2006 - 01:26 PM
Keith stop watching MTV... you trying to pimp your ride????
#6
LhMusL
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Posted 12 January 2006 - 07:15 PM
I have looked into this and ONE day will do it. Been told that its best to go with "Air Ride Suspension" check out www.airride.com.au.
Given him a call a few times and he has been real helpful. Just gotta find $4000.00 now....
Given him a call a few times and he has been real helpful. Just gotta find $4000.00 now....
#7
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Posted 12 January 2006 - 07:37 PM
The lower control arm shock mounting hole is too small for the commonly used airbag.
Otherwise cost is also high.
Was curious about using them so that i could have street/track ride height adjustment easily.
Otherwise cost is also high.
Was curious about using them so that i could have street/track ride height adjustment easily.
#8
_Baronvonrort_
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Posted 16 January 2006 - 01:44 PM
The only airbags i would fit for street\track use are the polyair bags that fit inside the rear springs so you can run a softer rear spring with no air pressure and stiffen it up by adding air without affecting ride height.
The air springs that replace the coil springs will not improve racetrack performance because it raises the vehicle when air pressure is increased so maximum stiffness occurs at maximum ride height.It will be too soft for the track at the lower ride height.
The air springs that replace the coil springs will not improve racetrack performance because it raises the vehicle when air pressure is increased so maximum stiffness occurs at maximum ride height.It will be too soft for the track at the lower ride height.
#9
_Oldn64_
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Posted 17 January 2006 - 12:58 PM
The other thign that these airbag do is attract the type of people that wish to bonus the car and destroy chassis and panel work. Personally the only thing I see airbags good for is dumping your ride at shows and then being able to legally drive it in the street afterwards. I wouldnt fit them in any of my rides. See no benefit from the fitment...
Cheers
Cheers
#10
_Flamenco_
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Posted 17 January 2006 - 10:50 PM
I was trying to think of a way to make the rear pump-up shocks adjustable without going to a servo to fill up the air valve. I thought if I get one of those $60 12v compressors and have some sort of oneway valve I could do it on the move!
Don't think it'd be legal somehow!
Don't think it'd be legal somehow!
#11
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Posted 18 January 2006 - 12:05 AM
You do have a one way valve that is how you pump them up. Secondly while great in theory the 12v compressors would be so slow that pumping both sides up would become a pain.
Cheers
Cheers
#12
LhMusL
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Posted 21 April 2007 - 11:55 AM
The air springs that replace the coil springs will not improve racetrack performance because it raises the vehicle when air pressure is increased so maximum stiffness occurs at maximum ride height.It will be too soft for the track at the lower ride height.
Just to dig this up, if maximum stiffness occurs at max ride height as stated above in an airbag (replacing springs) setup, would you just be able to get a smaller airbag that doesn't raise the car as much?
What i'm getting at is most airbag setups use an airbag that can raise the car upto standard height, so if you had them pumped up to maximum stiffness=max ride height you handleing is going to suffer as although having stiff ish suspension you ride height is not ideal for handeling high C of G etc. With this setup as stated, to get a good low stance for improved handleing (low C of G) you need to reduce pressure in the bags which leads to a decrease in air bag pressure and handleing due to a softer suspension.
But if you used a bag that when fully inflated (high pressure -> increased stiffness) only raised the car to say just legal 100mm or 1-2' lower than standard do you think you would be able to get decend handeling? not race track performance but a good streeter with the od track day for fun? Or do you think that because air is compressable even at max height/ pressure you won't be able to get hard enough suspension due to the air compressing?
Just thinking out loud here
Thoughts????
Just to dig this up, if maximum stiffness occurs at max ride height as stated above in an airbag (replacing springs) setup, would you just be able to get a smaller airbag that doesn't raise the car as much?
What i'm getting at is most airbag setups use an airbag that can raise the car upto standard height, so if you had them pumped up to maximum stiffness=max ride height you handleing is going to suffer as although having stiff ish suspension you ride height is not ideal for handeling high C of G etc. With this setup as stated, to get a good low stance for improved handleing (low C of G) you need to reduce pressure in the bags which leads to a decrease in air bag pressure and handleing due to a softer suspension.
But if you used a bag that when fully inflated (high pressure -> increased stiffness) only raised the car to say just legal 100mm or 1-2' lower than standard do you think you would be able to get decend handeling? not race track performance but a good streeter with the od track day for fun? Or do you think that because air is compressable even at max height/ pressure you won't be able to get hard enough suspension due to the air compressing?
Just thinking out loud here
Thoughts????
#13
arrimar
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Posted 21 April 2007 - 01:13 PM
one of my LH cars came with polyair bags in the back suspension.they were in about seven seperate pieces.i didnt even neeed to remove the spring to take them out.
when the 'professional' fitted them they cut the top from the bumpstop tower so now i cant put the original bumpstops back in without patching the tower.
when the 'professional' fitted them they cut the top from the bumpstop tower so now i cant put the original bumpstops back in without patching the tower.
#14
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 22 April 2007 - 04:33 PM
sorry to sound a bit dense here, but the weight of the car will always be compressing the air in the bag the same amount. so whether its 20mm or 200mm above the ground wouldent the stiffness be the same?
Edited by Bomber Watson, 22 April 2007 - 04:34 PM.
#15
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Posted 22 April 2007 - 05:11 PM
Ah sorry bomer i see what your getting at, but what i was trying to explane was that during cornering with the weight transfer around the car side to side etc
Would the air compressing during hard cornering (Eg alot of weight on outside tyres?) compress the air (Body Roll) to much for good handleing?
I guess you can put some fairly high pressures in some of these bags so they would compress less, but are the pressures needed to stop the air compressing to much for good handleing within the rages of these airbags?????
Would the air compressing during hard cornering (Eg alot of weight on outside tyres?) compress the air (Body Roll) to much for good handleing?
I guess you can put some fairly high pressures in some of these bags so they would compress less, but are the pressures needed to stop the air compressing to much for good handleing within the rages of these airbags?????
#16
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Posted 22 April 2007 - 07:57 PM
yes lhmusl i was thnking that aswell, i was referring to what some of the other blokes have said about having to pump them up to max to be at there stiffest. i dont think the height would affect it, unless you pumped the car up to max height then kept pumping more air into it...might not be the best idea
#17
dattoman
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Posted 22 April 2007 - 08:04 PM
At what ride height do you do your wheel alignment
Cause every time the height changes up or down so too does the steering geometry
Cause every time the height changes up or down so too does the steering geometry
#18
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 22 April 2007 - 08:07 PM
little hydraulic rams on every adjustment point that automaticaly adjust as you change the ride height.
#19
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Posted 22 April 2007 - 08:34 PM
i liked the idea of this in a later model torana, dont think it would look all the good in an early girl (LC LJ) im a trade suppler for that airbag joint, dont know how that happened, i have never sold nehting, but i get the letters and emails about all their prices and new stuff adressed to me as a trade member....
#20
_Baronvonrort_
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Posted 24 April 2007 - 01:46 AM
Since you quoted my post i will add to it.The air springs that replace the coil springs will not improve racetrack performance because it raises the vehicle when air pressure is increased so maximum stiffness occurs at maximum ride height.It will be too soft for the track at the lower ride height.
Just to dig this up, if maximum stiffness occurs at max ride height as stated above in an airbag (replacing springs) setup, would you just be able to get a smaller airbag that doesn't raise the car as much?
What i'm getting at is most airbag setups use an airbag that can raise the car upto standard height, so if you had them pumped up to maximum stiffness=max ride height you handleing is going to suffer as although having stiff ish suspension you ride height is not ideal for handeling high C of G etc. With this setup as stated, to get a good low stance for improved handleing (low C of G) you need to reduce pressure in the bags which leads to a decrease in air bag pressure and handleing due to a softer suspension.
But if you used a bag that when fully inflated (high pressure -> increased stiffness) only raised the car to say just legal 100mm or 1-2' lower than standard do you think you would be able to get decend handeling? not race track performance but a good streeter with the od track day for fun? Or do you think that because air is compressable even at max height/ pressure you won't be able to get hard enough suspension due to the air compressing?
Just thinking out loud here
Thoughts????
These airbags will not make the car handle any better and the cost and complexity of the system along with the increased weight from the onboard compressor would rule it out in my opinion for all performance applications.
What happens when one of the airbags starts leaking?
Why would you bother spending heaps more money to get no performance gain?
Yes air is compressible and so are springs and what is more important here is the spring rate.If you increase air pressure you will increase the spring rate
I think you would get a much better result for the road/track with some decent springs and if you put some quality shocks in like Bilstein you will get good handling with ride quality at a much cheaper cost.You would probably be able to rebush the thing as well and still have more money in your pocket.
Bmw,Mercedes and those fast german volkswagons all have bilstein shocks and they handle and ride pretty good.
#21
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 24 April 2007 - 07:41 AM
Good question ^. Never given air suspension a 2nd thought......but keen to find out more.
My initial thoughts are that suspension travel will depend on the length of the air bag........unless we are talking about systems that actively change the pressures while the car is in motion.
If no active system is fitted, doubling the force over the bag will halve its volume(subject to how well it releases heat), so the taller the bag the more the car will lean for the same force generated in cornering. This would apply equally if a car was fitted with longer soft springs etc.
This is probably over simplifying it and doesnt take into account the pressure that would be present in an unloaded bag.
My initial thoughts are that suspension travel will depend on the length of the air bag........unless we are talking about systems that actively change the pressures while the car is in motion.
If no active system is fitted, doubling the force over the bag will halve its volume(subject to how well it releases heat), so the taller the bag the more the car will lean for the same force generated in cornering. This would apply equally if a car was fitted with longer soft springs etc.
This is probably over simplifying it and doesnt take into account the pressure that would be present in an unloaded bag.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 24 April 2007 - 07:49 AM.
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