i have everything from a vs commo and it wont go good. it wont start....the radio works wat shud i check first....it has had a bit of front right damage
my engine wont start!!!
Started by
_twinturbotorana_
, Jan 19 2006 02:11 AM
34 replies to this topic
#2
rodomo
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 07:30 AM
A bit more info would be good.
You have bought a damaged VS and it won't start?
Does the engine crank over?
We're happy to help but clear discriptions of faults will bring quicker results.
RACV MAN
You have bought a damaged VS and it won't start?
Does the engine crank over?
We're happy to help but clear discriptions of faults will bring quicker results.
RACV MAN
#3
Tiny
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 09:35 AM
Well... we know all the important bits work... the radio... 
Sorry.. i couldnt help myself! As rodomo said, more info please! I'm sure someone will be able ot help...
Sorry.. i couldnt help myself! As rodomo said, more info please! I'm sure someone will be able ot help...
#4
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 11:32 AM
I remember we had a VS Commo, and it didnt start once cos of a flatish battery, the radio did still work, but insted on turning over it just ticked, we prob need a bit more info if we are going to be able to work out your problem! lol
#5
_twinturbotorana_
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 12:39 PM
ok, it doesnt even tick, it has a brand new battery now radio still works, it was damaged on the front right
because it dpesnt tick would this mean that there is some mystery wire thats not connected properly,
at the end of the trrottle cable there is a mechanism and it leads onto another cable which i think goes to a sensor, should this other cable be reconnected, im not sure if thats where it should go?
because it dpesnt tick would this mean that there is some mystery wire thats not connected properly,
at the end of the trrottle cable there is a mechanism and it leads onto another cable which i think goes to a sensor, should this other cable be reconnected, im not sure if thats where it should go?
#6
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 12:41 PM
is there any websites with very detailed pics of where everything should go in the engine bay, wires ect
also when i turn the ignition on.....it comes up with an engine light with "!" on it
also when i turn the ignition on.....it comes up with an engine light with "!" on it
#7
MRLXSS
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 12:46 PM
If it doesnt tick, this may mean that maybe there is a wire missing somewhere, now i have never dealt with a vs engine before, i am going off the same logic on my carby few engine, now first of all there should be a wire going to the solanoid on your starter motor, if this is connected the engine should at least turn over i believe, so maybe check the starter motor, i take it, its an auto, so a roll start is out of the question. i suppose u must check the basics first! maybe go to hte local library and borrow a book on vs commodore, they normally have common problems and diagnostics etc in there.
I really have no idea bout how the fuel injected engines work as i have only ever worked on carby few engines, but the bottom ends are pretty much identical anyway, and if it doesnt start i would say the problem would be electrical
I really have no idea bout how the fuel injected engines work as i have only ever worked on carby few engines, but the bottom ends are pretty much identical anyway, and if it doesnt start i would say the problem would be electrical
#8
_twinturbotorana_
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 01:14 PM
i checked it and it seems to be as you described and connected but still didnt tick, i will be getting an auto electriction out to my house thursday and then i will giv an update
#9
_LXChev366_
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 01:34 PM
you still havent told us the info we need... is it a six or V8 ???? this helps... especially when you start saying ...a wire near this part etc...
are you using your old ignition (key) barrel...as VS needs to read the key when ignition is on (or by pressing unlock button on remote) to unlock BCM (Body Control Module) to get it all happening. If you havent got the BCM happening, you will get the symptom you describe.
Put down as much info as you can in regards to what you have done to fit it to your car.... ie ignition etc...
Once bcm is unlocked (unlock button pressed) with key not in barrel you only have @ 20 seconds before it self locks (imobiliser). Another thing you can do is leave ignition on for @ 40 mins, this will also unlock BCM, which will allow cranking of the engine.
BTW...this works on VR up to VT series one..the VR @ 40 Mins - VT @ 2 hours.
VT2 onwards dosent work....see holden dealer!!
is it a six or V8 ???? this helps... especially when you start saying ...a wire near this part etc...are you using your old ignition (key) barrel...as VS needs to read the key when ignition is on (or by pressing unlock button on remote) to unlock BCM (Body Control Module) to get it all happening. If you havent got the BCM happening, you will get the symptom you describe.
Put down as much info as you can in regards to what you have done to fit it to your car.... ie ignition etc...
Once bcm is unlocked (unlock button pressed) with key not in barrel you only have @ 20 seconds before it self locks (imobiliser). Another thing you can do is leave ignition on for @ 40 mins, this will also unlock BCM, which will allow cranking of the engine.
BTW...this works on VR up to VT series one..the VR @ 40 Mins - VT @ 2 hours.
VT2 onwards dosent work....see holden dealer!!
Edited by LXChev366, 19 January 2006 - 01:41 PM.
#10
_twinturbotorana_
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 03:04 PM
hi, it is a 5L v8, the remote does not work anymore, i put a new batter in it and stil didnt work, i will try leaving it in for 40 mins, its a 1997 vs v8 by the way
#11
_twinturbotorana_
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 03:10 PM
it is using the same ignition aswell
#12
gtrboyy
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 03:59 PM
If the transponder no longer works,leave it on accessories for 47 minutes,make sure the security light isnt flashing in the middle of the dash then it will crank/fire assuming everything is ok/connected.When you turn the car off disconect the battery straight away so that next time you want to start it you wont have to wait.
#13
_twinturbotorana_
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 04:25 PM
i just finished trying it for 45 mins and it didnt start after that
#14
_J&S Racing_
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 04:37 PM
Do the ignition lights come on when you turn the key to ignition?
Did it start doing this after it was hit in the front?
Silly question but is the auto in Park? I have seen some left in Drive......
Did it start doing this after it was hit in the front?
Silly question but is the auto in Park? I have seen some left in Drive......
#15
gtrboyy
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 04:51 PM
Was the security light flashing,if it stops flashing after you use the key or have waited long enough for it to stop flashing then you have a fault elsewhere.Not being able to see the car makes it hard for everyone to help though so you wil have to go through it starting with the basics.
#16
_LXChev366_
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 05:17 PM
just finished trying it for 45 mins and it didnt start after that
as much as I know this is frustrating...it is for us also...
when you say "it didnt start"...
1. did it crank ?
2. Did it crank and not fire?
3. did it crank, tried to fire but didnt get there...
4. can you hear the fuel pump running (primes for 2 secs) when ignition is switched on??
5. If the engine cranks ...do you have spark, do you have injector pulse, do you have fuel pressure...
6. If it dosent crank...do you hear a clicking noise from the starter?
7. after @45 mins...did you get ignition lights coming on?
8. after 45 mins did the check engine light go out?
9. after 45 mins did the BCM (imobilisor) light go out...because if it is not out with Ign on....nothing will happen.
10. If it is an auto...try moving gear lever slowly through D N R N D N R( back and forth)as you try to crank the engine...sometimes the inhibitor switch wont work when in P or N....but may work just either side of this spot. (N)
I think that the fact you have the check engine light flashing and no crank at all, I would be checking all the fuzes and the relays under the small black plastic cover where the battery normally is.
do the next check one at time and then check if it cranks...there is nothing worse than fixing something and you dont know how you did it...
Under the cover there are 6 small fuzes. The Engine and F/Pump ones are the ones to check (even if you swap one from another place say the headlight one etc)
then you have @ 11 large square relays. The EFI, Fuel Pump and Start relays are the ones to check ..once again swap one from another place (making sure you fit one with the same amout of pins, some have 4 and some 5, trying them one at a time. get a pencil and mark them from 1 to 11 so you know where they started from.
Do you have a multimeter ?? Do you have a test light ?
if you do I can help you...
you have to be exact in what you are saying....
now I have a VR V8 with me at the moment and I am an ex Holden Mechanic....so type away and one of us will help you out...ask as many questions as you like...but please be exact in what you have done/experiencing.
#17
_LXChev366_
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 05:21 PM
If the transponder no longer works,leave it on accessories for 47 minutes,make sure the security light isnt flashing in the middle of the dash then it will crank/fire assuming everything is
sorry but this is wrong..it must be "Ignition" not accesories
#18
gtrboyy
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 06:20 PM
Yeah I should have have typed "ignition" as its a bad habit of mine saying accessories.
#19
_twinturbotorana_
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 07:54 PM
msg to lxchev366
it does not crank at all, makes no noises when i turn the key, i cant hear a fuel pump running either, i cant hear a clicking noise from the starter
the ignition lights come on...is that the ones that have the small seatbelt light ect?
the engine light stayed on after 45 mins
where is the BCM light
it is an auto
i will check all the fuses over in the morning cant see anything right now
yes i have a multimeter, no test light tho...
let me test all your ideas out and i will post some more about what happens in the morning
it does not crank at all, makes no noises when i turn the key, i cant hear a fuel pump running either, i cant hear a clicking noise from the starter
the ignition lights come on...is that the ones that have the small seatbelt light ect?
the engine light stayed on after 45 mins
where is the BCM light
it is an auto
i will check all the fuses over in the morning cant see anything right now
yes i have a multimeter, no test light tho...
let me test all your ideas out and i will post some more about what happens in the morning
#20
_LXChev366_
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 10:22 PM
also check ALL the fuses and relays that live under the steering column...
BCM immobiliser light on a VS is the little red led light that blinks just below where the radio is normally fitted for Exec, Acclaim, Equip and SS models and near the upper A/C vents on dash fascia for a Berlina or Calais.
The BCM light looks like a normal Alarm LED (@ 3mm diameter), it must not be flashing for engine to crank and fire up.... so when you leave the ignition on APPROX (it varies) 45 mins you are waiting for this LED to go out.
Once the led stops flashing you can switch Ign on and off and on again, but if you leave it off the LED will come back on again @ 20 seconds...so once you have the light off...leave Ign ON. and of course try and start the engine.
ok....well you have 2 problems.....one...the BCM is not being unlocked (no fuel pump sound) or Fuel pump fuse/relay is not working or fuel pump is dead, but is most likely BCM.
two ... the starter is not being energised.
The starter motor has 2 wires going down to it. A Large cable (positive from Battery) and a small wire. the small wire is the wire which energises the starter motor whilst cranking (solenoid)
If you can get someone to help you...place the multimeter to Volts DC and place one wire to the small terminal at the Solenoid (small wire) and the other to an earth... and while in the cranking position (key) there should be 12 volts at this terminal (whilst cranking) if not ...there is the "no crank" problem. ( I will get back to this later once you check all the fuses/relays)
you will only hear the fuel pump run (2 sec cycle) when key is rotated to "IGN On" (but not crank) ie if you rotate key off then on (5 secs) off then on (5 secs) you should hear fuel pump work each time.... this will only happen if the BCM LED is not flashing.
ok normally when you start the engine you just turn the key and crank the engine....what you dont realise is..in the background the BCM will run the fuel pump for 2 secs(to help fuel rail get to @ 35PSI) and when computer sees the engine running it powers up the fuel pump continuously....
I am trying to give you understanding of how the system works so you have a better chance of trying to fix it...
BCM immobiliser light on a VS is the little red led light that blinks just below where the radio is normally fitted for Exec, Acclaim, Equip and SS models and near the upper A/C vents on dash fascia for a Berlina or Calais.
The BCM light looks like a normal Alarm LED (@ 3mm diameter), it must not be flashing for engine to crank and fire up.... so when you leave the ignition on APPROX (it varies) 45 mins you are waiting for this LED to go out.
Once the led stops flashing you can switch Ign on and off and on again, but if you leave it off the LED will come back on again @ 20 seconds...so once you have the light off...leave Ign ON. and of course try and start the engine.
it does not crank at all, makes no noises when i turn the key, i cant hear a fuel pump running either, i cant hear a clicking noise from the starter
ok....well you have 2 problems.....one...the BCM is not being unlocked (no fuel pump sound) or Fuel pump fuse/relay is not working or fuel pump is dead, but is most likely BCM.
two ... the starter is not being energised.
The starter motor has 2 wires going down to it. A Large cable (positive from Battery) and a small wire. the small wire is the wire which energises the starter motor whilst cranking (solenoid)
If you can get someone to help you...place the multimeter to Volts DC and place one wire to the small terminal at the Solenoid (small wire) and the other to an earth... and while in the cranking position (key) there should be 12 volts at this terminal (whilst cranking) if not ...there is the "no crank" problem. ( I will get back to this later once you check all the fuses/relays)
you will only hear the fuel pump run (2 sec cycle) when key is rotated to "IGN On" (but not crank) ie if you rotate key off then on (5 secs) off then on (5 secs) you should hear fuel pump work each time.... this will only happen if the BCM LED is not flashing.
ok normally when you start the engine you just turn the key and crank the engine....what you dont realise is..in the background the BCM will run the fuel pump for 2 secs(to help fuel rail get to @ 35PSI) and when computer sees the engine running it powers up the fuel pump continuously....
I am trying to give you understanding of how the system works so you have a better chance of trying to fix it...
yes...the last bit before the crank position "All reds on"the ignition lights come on...is that the ones that have the small seatbelt light ect?
Edited by LXChev366, 19 January 2006 - 10:24 PM.
#21
_LXChev366_
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 10:37 PM
if all the fuses check ok...try the wiggle test...get someone to try and crank the engine and someone else wiggles every wire at the battery and fuze box area etc (my brothers VR had a crook wire in this place which stopped his from going)
#22
rodomo
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 10:41 PM
If it is a hard hit, try shifting the "T" bar through its stroke as you hold the key to crank. The engine may have moved on its mounts. Has the steering column been attacked? E.g stolen recovered? If so the little shiney knob in the end of the key must engage the stainless steel spring loaded rim on the ignition barrel to start. I have been to V series commodores with flat batteries in the key pad and have got them to start by pushing the unlock button on the keypad while turning the key. The battery in the keypad is spotwelded in and can only be seviced by holden. There would be a way around it but would take hours to nut out.
RACV MAN
RACV MAN
#23
rodomo
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 10:56 PM
Go to the relay box behind the battery and replace the START relay with the HORN relay. If it starts it is a faulty relay. If it doesn't start look on the bottom of the relay that is out & locate terminal no.30 and terminal no.87. With the start relay out bridge the corresponding holes in the relay holder. If it cranks and wont start the car is immobilised.
RACV MAN
RACV MAN
#24
_LXChev366_
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 11:05 PM
With the start relay out bridge the corresponding holes in the relay holder. If it cranks and wont start the car is immobilised.
good test that one...that narrows down the crank problem.
looks like you and I have been typing away madly coming up with good ideas...at the same time.. between both of us we should get to the bottom of it. RACV & Holden Mech.
#25
rodomo
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Posted 20 January 2006 - 12:34 AM
Diagnosis for a living, not like working in a workshop. No offence, been there done that hate the monotomy.
RACV MAN
RACV MAN
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