Howdy,
Got my LX SLR 5000 dynoed for the first time yesterday since buying her.
Had no receipts for the motor work done to it but the owner i bought it off (only had it for 12 months) told me when he bought the car the motor was only a couple of thousand kilometers old (now done approx. 4,000kms) & that Ian Tate in Melboure had built it.
It's very street driveable pulls like a 14 year old & is excellant on fuel. What i do know is it has L34 type heads, some sort of work done to the standard carby, elec ignition, roller rockers, alluminiun flywheel, cam, blue printed & balanced.
Anyway got it dynoed & it was doing 330 fwhp. Bloke who dynoed it said that whoever built the motor had done a top notch job & he told me not do do anything to it as it was running sweet. I asked him roughly how much a motor like that would be worth. He said approximately without pulling the motor done to see - $10,000. I thought no shit and then asked him how much horsepower a 308 can produce without supercherger/stroking etc. He said around 350 fwhp depending on diff types/gearboxes etc as they are a relatively small cubic inch motor & there is only so much you can do to them (without doing the above). I was wondering if this was true.
Any info would be great.
Glenn
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Started by
_hux454_
, Jan 19 2006 07:22 PM
18 replies to this topic
#2
Heath
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 07:36 PM
No, that isn't true. 308s have a lot of potential, I know of two 450HP 308s, one approaching 500HP and one with 600HP (Glenn may be bringing it up to the 650 mark in the near future, not sure though). They are all naturally aspirated engines that don't have tunnelrams etc.
On the other hand, 330fwhp is still a very powerful 308 and anything much over 400 is a just asking for you to spend far more on the rest of your driveline (diff, transmission, cooling and rear rubber - possibly even mini-tubbing). Consider yourself very lucky; a lot of people would kill for a car like that.
On the other hand, 330fwhp is still a very powerful 308 and anything much over 400 is a just asking for you to spend far more on the rest of your driveline (diff, transmission, cooling and rear rubber - possibly even mini-tubbing). Consider yourself very lucky; a lot of people would kill for a car like that.
#3
Tiny
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 09:00 PM
Topic moved.. please post in the correct section!
#4
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 09:16 PM
OH and to answer your question with L34 type heads and a smallish cam, i think you got a VERY good horsepower reading!
Any N/A V8 engine making 1.2-1.3Hp per cubic inch is a VERY well built engine.
308s suffer a MAJOR restriction in the design of their heads, and the only way to overcome this is to go to the late style VN heads ( thats why its such a popular conversion). THey flow SO much better its phenominal and even though yours are the better type of early head.. theyre still early heads.
I think you should be happy with your result from what i read above, but 308s can now be made into killer engines with the new gear thats around for them.
Cheers!
Any N/A V8 engine making 1.2-1.3Hp per cubic inch is a VERY well built engine.
308s suffer a MAJOR restriction in the design of their heads, and the only way to overcome this is to go to the late style VN heads ( thats why its such a popular conversion). THey flow SO much better its phenominal and even though yours are the better type of early head.. theyre still early heads.
I think you should be happy with your result from what i read above, but 308s can now be made into killer engines with the new gear thats around for them.
Cheers!
#5
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Posted 20 January 2006 - 06:56 AM
My old 308 that was built by Duggen balancing in melbourne wasnt a stroker and had red pre polution heads, crane solid and rolles. Extencive port work was ment to run 380+hp and from what it went like in fully loaded VK calais i dont doubt it did.. TORANR AMORE has now put tunnel rams and better extractors and throwing it in a Hatchback.. Will be very interesting to see what figures it pumps out..
308s have mega potential now, gone are the days were you needed to adopt a SBC to go fast..
John
308s have mega potential now, gone are the days were you needed to adopt a SBC to go fast..
John
#6
Peter UC
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Posted 20 January 2006 - 12:02 PM
Remember Heath some of those engines would definatly be stroked, Glenn's comes to mind.
#7
_77LX253_
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Posted 21 January 2006 - 08:32 AM
Soory to pinch the thread, but is it possible to fid the VN heads to a 253?
#8
Peter UC
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Posted 21 January 2006 - 12:48 PM
You can fit them but you need to deshrowd the block to fit in the valves. However you would have no bottom end torque as the head is too big for the 253
#9
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 21 January 2006 - 12:56 PM
L34 valves aren't that big, maybe 20-30% larger than standard, where YT valves are around double the size. GT350 valves and heads are bigger again!!! Animal valves and heads.
#10
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Posted 21 January 2006 - 02:44 PM
you can run a 2,02's in a old head, L34 are 1,94's. The inlet and exhaust are real closes together with 2,02's in them
#11
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Posted 21 January 2006 - 04:40 PM
VN heads on a 253 isnt a bad option, with decent comp it would have plenty of torque.. A 253 needs more comp to make power and better exhast flo so by using VN heads you sort the flo problem out and run a set of decent pistons with high comp and it should make decent power..
Dont no why you would do it to a 253 tho..
John
Dont no why you would do it to a 253 tho..
John
#12
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 23 January 2006 - 09:46 PM
because a 253 is easily engineered in a lj. i've been playing with the idea of very hot 253's for mine for a few weeks now....
#13
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Posted 24 January 2006 - 07:02 AM
Well sorta SS....
Problem with a 253 is going to be a very small swept volume pulling on a fairly large intake port. This kills air speed, and airspeed is where you get your torque from!
For a 253, stick with mildly ported red heads, aim for 10:1 comp cam around 240@50 and about 520lift @the valve. cleaned up standard 4 barrel intake or edelbrock performer, nice pipes with at least 1 1/2 primaries. For a carb, i'd say a 456 vac sec or 465 mech would do the job well.
A tip... 253's like a bit more ignition lead than a 308.... so start around 34-36degrees total advance.
That motor if assembled carefully should be good for around 280Hp@fly. Will pull like a train from 3000- 6000 and will leave you with change from $2500.
Cheers Greg..
Problem with a 253 is going to be a very small swept volume pulling on a fairly large intake port. This kills air speed, and airspeed is where you get your torque from!
For a 253, stick with mildly ported red heads, aim for 10:1 comp cam around 240@50 and about 520lift @the valve. cleaned up standard 4 barrel intake or edelbrock performer, nice pipes with at least 1 1/2 primaries. For a carb, i'd say a 456 vac sec or 465 mech would do the job well.
A tip... 253's like a bit more ignition lead than a 308.... so start around 34-36degrees total advance.
That motor if assembled carefully should be good for around 280Hp@fly. Will pull like a train from 3000- 6000 and will leave you with change from $2500.
Cheers Greg..
#14
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Posted 24 January 2006 - 07:34 AM
And with 253's you'll find there are heaps of people willing to give them away.
#15
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Posted 24 January 2006 - 08:43 AM
330hp is fairly good, but Ian Tate is a very good engine builder, afterall, he did build HDT's engines from the XU1's to early A9X till he started his own business and built for several teams over the years. I had a mate with a VL Group A that tate built the engine for. It was a nice smooth car to drive, but it sure had some punch. It was putting out 221kw at the rear wheels with stock looking setup. As for 350 hp being about the best you could hope for, even back in Group C days, the 308's were punching out just over 400hp. These days you could get 400hp and be a lot more streetable than a group C engine.
Edited by REDA9X, 24 January 2006 - 08:43 AM.
#16
Heath
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Posted 24 January 2006 - 01:28 PM
82911, interesting discussion about the 253s. I was talking to Makka quite recently and he was telling me about his 253 which sounds pretty nuts, and revs past 7000rpm! Does anyone know any specs on that engine? I haven't talked to Cohen in a while and he's not on MSN but I'd be interested to find out some more on that beast...
#17
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Posted 24 January 2006 - 06:41 PM
roughly how much nitros would this great 253 of yourse handle greg??? with properly strenghened internals naturaly....also i was toying with the idea of a great and noble efi set up for the v8...so this owuld pick it up a bit..
also, is it possible to put one of the larger cranks for a 308 (like the 355 stroker item) into the 253 block??? i know the main journals are different but this can be line bored out....i'm thinking 253 block with largish internals...problem is i would have a motor with a small bore and very long stroke...not so great i suppose.
also, is it possible to put one of the larger cranks for a 308 (like the 355 stroker item) into the 253 block??? i know the main journals are different but this can be line bored out....i'm thinking 253 block with largish internals...problem is i would have a motor with a small bore and very long stroke...not so great i suppose.
Edited by lc boi, 24 January 2006 - 06:43 PM.
#18
Tiny
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Posted 24 January 2006 - 06:52 PM
One thinkg i;d like to add just back on the topic of this thread...
Dont be too worried about the HP output of the engine..
Its the torque curve you REALLY want graphed. Try and get the curve as fat and stead as you can and you KNWO youve got a good engine. It'll pull like a train even if you loose a little up high where the HP numbers count.
(Hp is a function of torque over time and so one will affect the other but ive seen high HP machines with little or no torque, and on the street.. torque is what counts!)
Cheers.
and OH... the 253 greg's talking about is about what i'd like to build for the SLR
Thanks greg!
Dont be too worried about the HP output of the engine..
Its the torque curve you REALLY want graphed. Try and get the curve as fat and stead as you can and you KNWO youve got a good engine. It'll pull like a train even if you loose a little up high where the HP numbers count.
(Hp is a function of torque over time and so one will affect the other but ive seen high HP machines with little or no torque, and on the street.. torque is what counts!)
Cheers.
and OH... the 253 greg's talking about is about what i'd like to build for the SLR
Thanks greg!
#19
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Posted 28 January 2006 - 05:36 PM
I have an article out of a book about energizing the 253 and they had wayne jones of wayne jones engines build up a 253 for a ROH commodore cup team and wayne got the engine to pump out 380HP at the flywheel. Good article too. engine rebuild was in the vicinity of $6000 and the book is from the 90's.
ill give more detail of the engine specs if anyones interested. special billit camshaft produces power from 2000 - 7500 rpm. now who said you couldnt get a 253 cooking.
ill give more detail of the engine specs if anyones interested. special billit camshaft produces power from 2000 - 7500 rpm. now who said you couldnt get a 253 cooking.
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