Can someone explain flowcoating to me , im painting acrylic metallic silver using a HVLP gun and im getting a very dry look about it and when i block it back there tiny pinholes it the paint which when i rub them out theres nearly no paint left on the panel.
What pressure should i use with this gun , my compressor is a 13cfm FAD gun has pressure adjuster aswell.
Dave
Flow coating
Started by
_monaroman68_
, Jun 02 2007 06:45 PM
15 replies to this topic
#2
_Pete_
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Posted 02 June 2007 - 08:47 PM
The term "Flowcoating" is often a little understood, which is usually what happens when people talk about paintwork. The problem is everyone has a different way/opinion on how to acheive an outcome, you need to find what works for you.
I'll start with the definition of Flowcoating. It is the process used to acheive a final "off the gun" finish that in theory should be flawless in gloss and "peel". It requires the colour on the car be it a Solid Paint like a yellow/white/red etc or a metallic/pearl to have complete coverage (ie. its not "see through). Metallics/Pearls have Clearcoats applied over the metallic/pearl as they are only a Basecoat with no Gloss or UV protections and will break down very fast if left un-cleared.
Now, The applied paint is then rubbed down with fine sandpaper so any imperfections are removed and any "Orange peel" texture to the surface is perfectly flat. Then a very "wet" application of Clear is painted on. Usually only 2 coats if your using Two-Pack paint. The aim is to try and have flawless gloss and the paint surface to be level with no Peel or Dry areas.
Now to get a solution to your problem which sounds completely unrelated to Flowcoating.
A few questions need to be answered, What brand of Paint and Thinners are you using, What is your Paint mixture, What is your Air Regulator set at on the compressor, What brand of Gun are you using and what are its available adjusting knobs, Where are your painting.
I'm guessing its a combination of Gun/Compressor setup, Thinners, Application. All of which aren't going to be simply sorted out on the internet. Some more trial and error is going to be needed on test panels to sort out your set-up.
Around 40-45psi at the Compressor regulator should be enough to get you painting ok, then adjust your air pressure at the gun.
To paint an Acrylic metallic Silver I like to use the following process;
Four to five wet heavy coats of colour to ensure you get coverage and also help keep the metallic sitting down and not "Hairy Looking".
Two Light "Dusting" coats of a thinner mix of colour to get your colour even and uniform looking with out "Tiger" stripes, Spray these on from a further distance away from the panels and use a less regimented approach to your spraying. Use more thinner mix of paint.
Then after its "Flashed" off, use a Tack Rag to remove any overspray dust from the colour. Flash off times should be on the side of your paint can but it will usually be between 10-15mins.
Then paint your clear coats on, with Acrylic you can put on as much paint on as you like as long as you let it flash off enough between coats. I'd start with 4-5 coats of Clear, then let it cure overnight, unmask the car, rub the clear down with 1500 wet so its flat. Re-mask the car, clean down with Prepsol, Then spray another 4-5 "wet" coats of Clear.
Allow to cure for a couple of weeks, rub down again with 1500 wet sandpaper and then Buff/Polish it up to a gloss.
I'll start with the definition of Flowcoating. It is the process used to acheive a final "off the gun" finish that in theory should be flawless in gloss and "peel". It requires the colour on the car be it a Solid Paint like a yellow/white/red etc or a metallic/pearl to have complete coverage (ie. its not "see through). Metallics/Pearls have Clearcoats applied over the metallic/pearl as they are only a Basecoat with no Gloss or UV protections and will break down very fast if left un-cleared.
Now, The applied paint is then rubbed down with fine sandpaper so any imperfections are removed and any "Orange peel" texture to the surface is perfectly flat. Then a very "wet" application of Clear is painted on. Usually only 2 coats if your using Two-Pack paint. The aim is to try and have flawless gloss and the paint surface to be level with no Peel or Dry areas.
Now to get a solution to your problem which sounds completely unrelated to Flowcoating.
A few questions need to be answered, What brand of Paint and Thinners are you using, What is your Paint mixture, What is your Air Regulator set at on the compressor, What brand of Gun are you using and what are its available adjusting knobs, Where are your painting.
I'm guessing its a combination of Gun/Compressor setup, Thinners, Application. All of which aren't going to be simply sorted out on the internet. Some more trial and error is going to be needed on test panels to sort out your set-up.
Around 40-45psi at the Compressor regulator should be enough to get you painting ok, then adjust your air pressure at the gun.
To paint an Acrylic metallic Silver I like to use the following process;
Four to five wet heavy coats of colour to ensure you get coverage and also help keep the metallic sitting down and not "Hairy Looking".
Two Light "Dusting" coats of a thinner mix of colour to get your colour even and uniform looking with out "Tiger" stripes, Spray these on from a further distance away from the panels and use a less regimented approach to your spraying. Use more thinner mix of paint.
Then after its "Flashed" off, use a Tack Rag to remove any overspray dust from the colour. Flash off times should be on the side of your paint can but it will usually be between 10-15mins.
Then paint your clear coats on, with Acrylic you can put on as much paint on as you like as long as you let it flash off enough between coats. I'd start with 4-5 coats of Clear, then let it cure overnight, unmask the car, rub the clear down with 1500 wet so its flat. Re-mask the car, clean down with Prepsol, Then spray another 4-5 "wet" coats of Clear.
Allow to cure for a couple of weeks, rub down again with 1500 wet sandpaper and then Buff/Polish it up to a gloss.
#3
_monaroman68_
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Posted 02 June 2007 - 09:47 PM
Brand of paint PPG Group2 Acrylic Colour is Silver Mink HK GTS colour.
Not using clear if i dont have to, as its on a HK GTS original resto.
Tinners is Motorspray .
Gun is called Grip HVLP max 45psi Has 4 adjustments 1isfan 2 is trigger amount 3 is air supply bottom of handle and 4 is pressure gauge with 45psi max.
Paint mix is 1:1.5 of thinners
Painting is a 18mx6m shed in widebay QLD.
Not using clear if i dont have to, as its on a HK GTS original resto.
Tinners is Motorspray .
Gun is called Grip HVLP max 45psi Has 4 adjustments 1isfan 2 is trigger amount 3 is air supply bottom of handle and 4 is pressure gauge with 45psi max.
Paint mix is 1:1.5 of thinners
Painting is a 18mx6m shed in widebay QLD.
#4
_Pete_
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Posted 02 June 2007 - 10:08 PM
The Colour will require Clear, PPG Acrylic metallics are Basecoat only, the paint requires clear not only to give it gloss and protection but also its true colour.
Are you finding the Motorspray thinners are evaporating really fast? I prefer Wattyl or Spartan C3 laquer Thinners, you can also add a small amount of Wattyl Retarder Thinners to help slow the drying times and help the paint flow out of the gun.
The Grip gun, What size tip is it?, ideally for Acrylic you will need a 2.0mm fluid tip. 1.8 will also work ok if you can work it.
Your mix of 1:1.5 is fine, all I'd do is go for maybe 1:2 of thinners for your dusting coats to even out your metallic.
Shed wouldn't be the issue, I asked as some people like to paint outside in the wind and sunshine and wonder why they're paint is not reaching the panel or drying before it hits.
Are you finding the Motorspray thinners are evaporating really fast? I prefer Wattyl or Spartan C3 laquer Thinners, you can also add a small amount of Wattyl Retarder Thinners to help slow the drying times and help the paint flow out of the gun.
The Grip gun, What size tip is it?, ideally for Acrylic you will need a 2.0mm fluid tip. 1.8 will also work ok if you can work it.
Your mix of 1:1.5 is fine, all I'd do is go for maybe 1:2 of thinners for your dusting coats to even out your metallic.
Shed wouldn't be the issue, I asked as some people like to paint outside in the wind and sunshine and wonder why they're paint is not reaching the panel or drying before it hits.
#5
_monaroman68_
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Posted 02 June 2007 - 10:53 PM
Its a 2 mm tip
The bloke at the paint shop told me it would be ok not use clear but would take a lot of colour sanding and buffing work to get it right.
I started this about a year ago and prepped the body on a rotisasory which took six months doing it all by myself.Then about six months ago i painted it and it was like i said before very dry looking . But after many many hours of sanding and buffing and repainting cause i rubbed it too thin in places butit came up very very good and even had a painter mate checkit out and he thought i used clear but i told him no i didnt its all colour.
After all that work i thought there is no way that im doing this right as i used so much paint and was so time consuming that i lost interest for a while and started back about 2 months ago preping the bolton panels and the subframe. All panels are now prepped and i just done the bonnet and its turned out the same as the body did before all that rubbing . I no i can get it up as i did with the rest but i want to improve on what skills i have and make life a bit easier for myself.
I have painted plenty off cars in solid colour and never had this problem before and when i rang the paint guy in the begining of all this he just said thats metallic acrylic for you and said it just all going to be hard work to get up.
Listening to you Pete it sounds like i've been talking to the wrong guy.
If its supose to have clear why wouldnt he tell me that from the beginning as i'm now at 8 liters of colour having with 2 liters left.
Dave
The bloke at the paint shop told me it would be ok not use clear but would take a lot of colour sanding and buffing work to get it right.
I started this about a year ago and prepped the body on a rotisasory which took six months doing it all by myself.Then about six months ago i painted it and it was like i said before very dry looking . But after many many hours of sanding and buffing and repainting cause i rubbed it too thin in places butit came up very very good and even had a painter mate checkit out and he thought i used clear but i told him no i didnt its all colour.
After all that work i thought there is no way that im doing this right as i used so much paint and was so time consuming that i lost interest for a while and started back about 2 months ago preping the bolton panels and the subframe. All panels are now prepped and i just done the bonnet and its turned out the same as the body did before all that rubbing . I no i can get it up as i did with the rest but i want to improve on what skills i have and make life a bit easier for myself.
I have painted plenty off cars in solid colour and never had this problem before and when i rang the paint guy in the begining of all this he just said thats metallic acrylic for you and said it just all going to be hard work to get up.
Listening to you Pete it sounds like i've been talking to the wrong guy.
If its supose to have clear why wouldnt he tell me that from the beginning as i'm now at 8 liters of colour having with 2 liters left.
Dave
#6
TerrA LX
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Posted 02 June 2007 - 11:14 PM
I've never heard of spraying metallic properly with out clear coat.
#7
_Pete_
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Posted 03 June 2007 - 11:11 AM
G'day Dave, Maybe try painting a spare panel with your colour and then shoot it with clear and then buff the clear. I think you'll be pleasantely suprised.
#8
LS1LX
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Posted 03 June 2007 - 05:20 PM
Silver mink metalic needs a clear coa, I think you should find yourself a new paint shop.
I have never seen a car painted in metalic without a clear finish, it would just be a real matt finish, the Hk's used a clear on all the metalics I dont care what that goose in the paint shop recommends.
Spend some $$ and buy some clear, thats probably the reason your paint looks so dry and boring. Put the clear on and cut the clear back and watch it shine, if you dont want it like glass then dont cut it back and buff it.
I have never seen a car painted in metalic without a clear finish, it would just be a real matt finish, the Hk's used a clear on all the metalics I dont care what that goose in the paint shop recommends.
Spend some $$ and buy some clear, thats probably the reason your paint looks so dry and boring. Put the clear on and cut the clear back and watch it shine, if you dont want it like glass then dont cut it back and buff it.
#9
_monaroman68_
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Posted 03 June 2007 - 09:39 PM
It only looks matt off the gun it cuts back and the shine is unreal but with with so much work to get it that way. It look fantastic thats why i asked the question on flow coating to see if i could reduce the amount of work needed rubbing and cutting.Silver mink metalic needs a clear coa, I think you should find yourself a new paint shop.
I have never seen a car painted in metalic without a clear finish, it would just be a real matt finish, the Hk's used a clear on all the metalics I dont care what that goose in the paint shop recommends.
Spend some $$ and buy some clear, thats probably the reason your paint looks so dry and boring. Put the clear on and cut the clear back and watch it shine, if you dont want it like glass then dont cut it back and buff it.
I sprayed some clear today over the bonnet and some small pieces but still is very furry looking and dry ,maybe it thew gun as i have a lot of paint coming out but im not seeing the shiny wet looking section as it sprays and ends up like a course grit sandpaper.I've tried more paint less paint more fan less fan more pressure and then less pressure but it seems to not make any difference.
Checked the gun and cleaned it well . Previously i only used suction feed guns and solid colours and never had a problem before.
The body has been in colour now for 6 months , it compounded and is a very very good shinny finish(not noing how long the shine would last out in the conditions outside Not having clear coat) How come if its a base coat that i did get it to buff up so good ?
can i just knock it back with 1000 then clear coat it or will i have to add colour to the body again?
Dave
#10
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 03 June 2007 - 09:56 PM
I am not an expert but it sounds like you have to much pressure and the paint is drying before it hits the panel or it may be that you are moving the gun to fast.
When you spray acrylic it should look wet immediately after spraying and dry to a smooth finish. If the finish looks and feels like sand then the paint was too dry when it hit the panel.
When you spray acrylic it should look wet immediately after spraying and dry to a smooth finish. If the finish looks and feels like sand then the paint was too dry when it hit the panel.
#11
_monaroman68_
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Posted 03 June 2007 - 10:02 PM
Yes ls2lxhatch thats seems to be the problem , even with the paint trigger fully out its still dry looking straight away and even moving the gun very very slow, i'm feeling the guns tip might be a dud .
#12
_SSL31_
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Posted 03 June 2007 - 10:08 PM
You have to be a bloody good painter to flow coat properly...
#13
_monaroman68_
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Posted 04 June 2007 - 05:36 PM
Repaced the tip today and hey bingo sprays a treat.
Even got it shine straight off the gun , i'm liking that very much.
Dave
Even got it shine straight off the gun , i'm liking that very much.
Dave
#14
_Herne_
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Posted 04 June 2007 - 05:46 PM
According to the 'experts' at House of Kolor they say a good paint job doesn't need flow coating, I was told flow coating is for people who cannot spray properly.You have to be a bloody good painter to flow coat properly...
I am not qualified one way or the other to argue with them.
Herne
#15
_Pete_
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Posted 04 June 2007 - 07:25 PM
Everyone in the industry certainly has heard various opinions of House Of Kolor too.... But as always everyone has a different opinions of right and wrong in every corner of the paint and panel industry.
It's true you need to be a gun painter to paint a coat of paint without any imperfections at all. I know of one maybe two (not me) that would be able to paint a complete respray and not have any "issues" to make it "perfect".
But as always everyone has a different opinions of right and wrong in every corner of the paint and panel industry.It's true you need to be a gun painter to paint a coat of paint without any imperfections at all. I know of one maybe two (not me) that would be able to paint a complete respray and not have any "issues" to make it "perfect".
#16
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 04 June 2007 - 07:31 PM
A good 2 pack enamel job does not need flow coating. A show quality 2 pack enamel paint job can only be achieved with flow coating.
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