Howdy,
I'm having a few electrical problems at the moment and quite honestly I dont have the confidence to sort them out. For some reason sparky stuff freaks me out (I even freak out when I get static shock!!).
I guess what I want is the name of a good auto electrician in Bris (southside) or simply some encouragement to get me over my sookyness. How badly can I stuff up with electrics? Can I actually fry the whole system or start a fire? I have a multimeter (given to me) that I have no idea how to use. I dont know when to use 10amp wire or 15amp wire. Do I disconnect the battery before playing with sparky stuff? And I have trouble reading wiring diagrams.
My current (pun intended) problems are a bouncing tacho needle (autometer) so probably a bad earth, horn doesnt work (probably fuse as clock is stopped as well but when I put a fuse in it just sparks and blows - short circuit?) and now the windscreen wipers dont work. Starter doesnt crank all the time (every third or forth turn of the key) and I need to wire up the oil pressure guage and the voltometer.
What do autoelecs charge (hahaha, another pun) these days?
Cheers,
Big T
Electrical probs and no confidence to fix them
Started by
_Big T_
, Jun 13 2007 01:46 PM
10 replies to this topic
#2
Dangerous
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Posted 13 June 2007 - 05:52 PM
Have a go yourself, and you'll learn heaps, and save some money.
If you have a multimeter, then learn how to use it. Most meters can measure three things - voltage (AC and DC), current, and resistance. For a car, you're usually only interested in 12 volts DC (so use the 0 to 20 volts DC range), and resistance is handy for figuring out if wires and earths are broken, or fuses and globes are blown. The voltage and resistance ranges are fairly safe to use on a multimeter, and it's pretty hard to blow anything up, but stay away from the current settings for now, as if you short something with the multimeter leads while measuring current, lots of current will flow, smoke will happen, and the meter will probably expire.
The voltage readings require the battery to be connected (obviously), but the resistance readings use a small battery inside the meter, so the car battery can be disconnected while measuring resistance, if you feel safer doing this. Any bit of metal is usually quite a low resistance, so any wire, fuse, switch or globe in a car should read a very low resistance. Use a low setting, eg 0 to 200 ohms, and expect to see 0 to 10 ohms readings for most wiring, fuses or globes if they're OK. For something that uses a lot of power, eg headlight wiring, expect to see close to 0 ohms.
Onto your current problems - aftermarket bouncing tacho needles - can be caused by a high energy ignition system, but is usually more due to a poor earth (either on the tacho, or from teh battery to chassis), dirty or closed up points, or a dud distributor capacitor (condenser).
Horn doesn't work and blowing the horn fuse when the horn button is pressed - usually a shorted horn. Try unplugging the horn and fitting a fuse, and pressing the horn button. If the fuse doesn't blow, then the horn's probably dud, and should be replaced. If the fuse blows straight away when you put it in, it's probably something else on the circuit. If the fuse only blows when you press the horn button, then it's probably the horn itself. Most Toranas if not all have a stop/tail/dome/horn fuse which powers all of these circuits. Usual supects are shorts in the tail lights, and in trailer plug wiring if it's fitted. Others can be the illumination wiring on aftermarket sound systems.
Clock stopped - these are usually dead from old age by now - may be unrelated.
Windscreen wipers - Make sure the switch is tight, and start checking with the multimeter. Yellow wire should be full time 12 volts with the ignition on, and white should be earth when the wiper switch is on, from memory. Also check the small brass strip on the wiper motor which runs from one of the motor mounting screws to the motor itself - this is the motor earth.
Starter - could be solenoind or starter switch. Does the solenoid click each time the key is turned, or not? The purple wire to the starter motor solenoid should go from 0V to 12V when the ignition is turned to start. If it doesn't then it's probably ignition switch or wiring. If it does, then it's probably a crook starter solenoid.
There you go - a weekend of fun for you
If you have a multimeter, then learn how to use it. Most meters can measure three things - voltage (AC and DC), current, and resistance. For a car, you're usually only interested in 12 volts DC (so use the 0 to 20 volts DC range), and resistance is handy for figuring out if wires and earths are broken, or fuses and globes are blown. The voltage and resistance ranges are fairly safe to use on a multimeter, and it's pretty hard to blow anything up, but stay away from the current settings for now, as if you short something with the multimeter leads while measuring current, lots of current will flow, smoke will happen, and the meter will probably expire.
The voltage readings require the battery to be connected (obviously), but the resistance readings use a small battery inside the meter, so the car battery can be disconnected while measuring resistance, if you feel safer doing this. Any bit of metal is usually quite a low resistance, so any wire, fuse, switch or globe in a car should read a very low resistance. Use a low setting, eg 0 to 200 ohms, and expect to see 0 to 10 ohms readings for most wiring, fuses or globes if they're OK. For something that uses a lot of power, eg headlight wiring, expect to see close to 0 ohms.
Onto your current problems - aftermarket bouncing tacho needles - can be caused by a high energy ignition system, but is usually more due to a poor earth (either on the tacho, or from teh battery to chassis), dirty or closed up points, or a dud distributor capacitor (condenser).
Horn doesn't work and blowing the horn fuse when the horn button is pressed - usually a shorted horn. Try unplugging the horn and fitting a fuse, and pressing the horn button. If the fuse doesn't blow, then the horn's probably dud, and should be replaced. If the fuse blows straight away when you put it in, it's probably something else on the circuit. If the fuse only blows when you press the horn button, then it's probably the horn itself. Most Toranas if not all have a stop/tail/dome/horn fuse which powers all of these circuits. Usual supects are shorts in the tail lights, and in trailer plug wiring if it's fitted. Others can be the illumination wiring on aftermarket sound systems.
Clock stopped - these are usually dead from old age by now - may be unrelated.
Windscreen wipers - Make sure the switch is tight, and start checking with the multimeter. Yellow wire should be full time 12 volts with the ignition on, and white should be earth when the wiper switch is on, from memory. Also check the small brass strip on the wiper motor which runs from one of the motor mounting screws to the motor itself - this is the motor earth.
Starter - could be solenoind or starter switch. Does the solenoid click each time the key is turned, or not? The purple wire to the starter motor solenoid should go from 0V to 12V when the ignition is turned to start. If it doesn't then it's probably ignition switch or wiring. If it does, then it's probably a crook starter solenoid.
There you go - a weekend of fun for you
#3
_Squarepants_
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Posted 13 June 2007 - 06:25 PM
Nice work, Dangerous!
Big T, I'm in exactly the same boat as you are, but seeing as my old man is an Auto-Electrician, I don't really have to worry. I'll PM ya the name of a dude I know is West Brisbane, he used to work for my old man so I know he's ok.
Otherwise, best of luck if you're gonna try it yourself!
Big T, I'm in exactly the same boat as you are, but seeing as my old man is an Auto-Electrician, I don't really have to worry. I'll PM ya the name of a dude I know is West Brisbane, he used to work for my old man so I know he's ok.
Otherwise, best of luck if you're gonna try it yourself!
#4
_Big T_
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Posted 13 June 2007 - 06:28 PM
Ow my head hurts......
Nah seriously, thanks for all the info Dangerous. You have explained it in such a way that I can grasp what you are saying, thanks for that!! I'll actually read the manual for the mutlimeter and start to play around with some of the wiring. I guess I avoid it for the same reason I avoid playing with routers/switches at work. Hundreds of wires and hard to tell what goes where.
Looks like Im gunna have a fun weekend !!!
BTW- I should have mentioned the Torana in question is a UC. Same prinicals should apply though hey?
Another post to print and add to my GMH-Torana.com manual........
Edit - Cheers squarepants, local knowledge and contacts are always a good thing!!
Nah seriously, thanks for all the info Dangerous. You have explained it in such a way that I can grasp what you are saying, thanks for that!! I'll actually read the manual for the mutlimeter and start to play around with some of the wiring. I guess I avoid it for the same reason I avoid playing with routers/switches at work. Hundreds of wires and hard to tell what goes where.
Looks like Im gunna have a fun weekend !!!
BTW- I should have mentioned the Torana in question is a UC. Same prinicals should apply though hey?
Another post to print and add to my GMH-Torana.com manual........
Edit - Cheers squarepants, local knowledge and contacts are always a good thing!!
Edited by Big T, 13 June 2007 - 06:30 PM.
#5
Dangerous
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Posted 13 June 2007 - 08:15 PM
Yep, same principles apply. Even the same coloured wires too, from memory. Electrically, about the only thing different to any major degree between LX and UC is the indicator/wiper stalk on the UC.BTW- I should have mentioned the Torana in question is a UC. Same prinicals should apply though hey?
Stick with measuring voltage and resistance with your meter until you're confident with it, and you'll be fine.
#6
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 13 June 2007 - 08:52 PM
Big T, as I posted a while ago for you, the UC has a separate fuse for the clock and horn, which is not shown in the Gregory's manual!. If the fuse is shorting, as soon as you install it(without pushing the horn)......then you only have to look for problems in the wires going to these two items.Most Toranas if not all have a stop/tail/dome/horn fuse which powers all of these circuits.
The horn relay or wiring to is the most likely culprit with a slim possibility of the clock.
Starting at the horn relay 1st, remove the 3 wire plug that goes to it. Try inserting the fuse, if it doesnt short then there is an internal short in the relay.........or shorts in both the horn push wire and the wire going to the horn(unlikely).There is the possibility that the horn push jammed on in a previous life(and is still jammed) and burnt the horn out causing a short too.
If the short remains, then the prob is with the wire going from the fuse panel to the horn relay or indeed the clock........disconnect the wire going to the clock next....
Another possibility is that there is another "mystery" wire connected to the fuse terminal(maybe a previous owner ran an accessory of here) and the other end of the wire has gone south and is causing the short.
All advice ^ with multimeter is good, do stay away from trying to measure currents with them.........it will eventually end in tears.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 13 June 2007 - 09:06 PM.
#7
_Big T_
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Posted 14 June 2007 - 09:05 AM
Cool, thanks Devils. I will consult the Max Ellery manual for the location of the horn relay etc. Shouldnt be too hard to find. I read your post regarding the fuse for horn and clock and sure enough the clock is stopped as you suggested it should be with no fuse. Upon further investigation I noticed that the horn wire has been squashed. Previous owner has rerouted alot of wires through the guards etc and in the process the horn wire has been jammed in the front bumper bar mounting bracket. It has been squashed flat and I suspect this may be causing a short however no bare wire is exposed. I also removed the after market steering wheel and there are no wires connecting the horn button to the plate that activates the horn. I will hook these up, cut out the squashed bit of wire and see if I can get the fuse to hold and go from there.
I read the multimeter manual last night and the one I have is specifically for telephone lines (has loop back, line noise etc settings). It also has a mutlimeter. I also had a look at the Digital Engine Analyser I picked up a while ago. This seems like it is better suited to my purposes. A bit more searching around the net and I should have all the info I need to trouble shoot wiring problems. I am a total layman with this topic so I need something that says "connect the black probe and touch it on the wire to test etc"
I will get there, thanks to the responses Ive had so far and little bit more research....... Once again, cheers fellas, you help is appreciated.
I read the multimeter manual last night and the one I have is specifically for telephone lines (has loop back, line noise etc settings). It also has a mutlimeter. I also had a look at the Digital Engine Analyser I picked up a while ago. This seems like it is better suited to my purposes. A bit more searching around the net and I should have all the info I need to trouble shoot wiring problems. I am a total layman with this topic so I need something that says "connect the black probe and touch it on the wire to test etc"
I will get there, thanks to the responses Ive had so far and little bit more research....... Once again, cheers fellas, you help is appreciated.
#8
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 14 June 2007 - 09:30 AM
The horn relay 'should be' on the front guard, near the washer reservoir.
#9
surfmaster
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Posted 14 June 2007 - 09:32 AM
It's really important with wiring not to let the smoke out of them, once the smoke gets out wires don't work anymore.
#10
rodomo
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Posted 14 June 2007 - 06:02 PM
I have a Scientific Publications/Gregory's manual for Torana and a Max Ellery's manual for Commodore. The Max Ellery's wiring diagrams are much easier to read. The S.P./Gregory's virtually have the whole cars wiring loom on one page where the M.E has separate pages and diagrams for separate circuits. Kinda like comparing a Melways to an old U.B.D street directory. 
A whole diagram and whole wiring loom can be daunting. Think of it as all separate circuits. Draw your problem circuit off the diagram and follow that if it makes it easier.
Good luck!
A whole diagram and whole wiring loom can be daunting. Think of it as all separate circuits. Draw your problem circuit off the diagram and follow that if it makes it easier.
Good luck!
Edited by rodomo, 14 June 2007 - 06:03 PM.
#11
Dangerous
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Posted 18 June 2007 - 12:24 PM
Ta for the correction, DA - still learning more about UCs.Big T, as I posted a while ago for you, the UC has a separate fuse for the clock and horn, which is not shown in the Gregory's manual!.Most Toranas if not all have a stop/tail/dome/horn fuse which powers all of these circuits.
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