31 replies to this topic

[red6]

ok well the 202 in the lc is suffering from a sever piston slap/ lack of compression as a result of me bolting all my go fast bits to a bottom end which i bought second hand and didnt rebuild as i couldnt afford the time with the car off the road as its my daily. when had the head off the engine the pistons where quite lose in their bores and over the last 6 months of driving they have slowly gotten worse. so its time for me to build my first bottom end.

ive done cam swaps and head swaps multiple times and had no dramas with these, and ive pulled down a bottom end before but ive never actually assembled a fresh one.

so far i already have the following parts which will be involved in the rebuild:

-202 block supposedly virgin bore pulled from a low milage hq wagon.
-Yella Terra 186 type Stage 3 Head with all the usual work.
-Yella Terra 5007 roller rockers.
-Counterweighted Crank pulled from a different black motor.
-Starfire rods from same motor.
-Pacemaker extractors.
-Electronic Ignition.

thinking i will acquire the following parts before i pull the engine out of the car:

-New alloy timing gears (Jp?)
-ARP rod Bolts
-New Cam of some sort, i already have a dynotec stage 2 but want something which is better matched to the rest of the combo.

then obviously once engine is out i get all the machining done i will need to purchase a rebuild kit:

-What sort of Pistons should i be looking at?
-Should i use race series gaskets or will normal suffice for this combo?
-When i pull down the bottom end what parts do i take to the machining shop together to get machined.
-do i need to keep any parts in a specific order?
- I think that they need to fit the cam bearings and pistons to rods at the machine shop as you cant do this at home. what else do i need to get them to do while they have it to make life easy.

In the long run after its all sorted and run in:
-new 2 1/4 in exhaust
-upgrade from single stromberg to a WW2 or possibly a small set or tripple su's.



WHAT ARE PEOPLES THOUGHTS?

WHAT ELSE SHOULD I LOOK INTO DOING WHILE I HAVE THE ENGINE APART TO IMPROVE THE COMBO I ALREADY HAVE?

[TerrA LX]

Most any gasket will do, if installed to holdens specifications will do the job.
rods and main caps should be numbered starting from the front of the block.
Any brand name piston will do.
Take crank, rods and block (with caps) with you and anything else you want acid dipped (sump/rocker cover) and or machined i.e. head.
If you having the assembly balanced, good idea if done properly(not alot of machine shops do) then they will need your harmonic balancer, flywheel and pressure plate.

oh, before you send the block of to the shop, grab a die grinder or a bit in a drill and run over the oil gallery's removing any dags of cast hanging around.

Edited by ALX76, 03 July 2007 - 01:17 PM.

[Heath]

tyrefryer should read this thread.

[TerrA LX]

Update; to number parts you oviously need number stamps and a decent hammer, one good hit should suffice,
Rods are to be numbered once, both on the cap and corresponding rod, keeping that number next/above each other, if you follow me. (so number one rod will have a 1 on the cap and a 1 above it on the rod itseff.).
If it has been rebuilt before then it is prolly already numbered.
The numbered parts go back where they came from on reassembly.

[red6]

is this still necisary considering that the crank and rods are from a different engine to the one im using as a base?

should i be using the main and bearing caps from the red engine im am rebuilding or from the black motor the crank came out of?

i have the rods and caps assembled and in order that they came off the crank.

[TerrA LX]

Keep the caps with the block from which they came, numbered.
Assuming the rods belong to the crank u are using they should be numbered from where they came to go back onto their corrosponding journals.
If they are all mixed and matched, have the block with the mixed/new caps and and the mixed/new rods and have the block line bored and the crank/rods etc ballanced.
The machinest will number them for you.

Edited by ALX76, 03 July 2007 - 06:55 PM.

[mrlctorana]

Hey, Definately get the entire assembly balanced as ALX76 said take the balancer, flywheel, and pressure plate as well.

A few other things to maybe think about at the machine shop;
- Deck the block and head
- Bore and hone
- Check the tunnel alignment of the block/caps, incase it need to be linebored
- Even the rods and caps can be checked, and machined if necessary
- Machine the crank flange and flywheel face where it bolts to the flange, both surfaces are then perfect.
- Check out the crank, Polish, grind only if necessary
- Acid dip and crack test
- Crack test head

There is probably a million other things that you could do, But if you get all the basic checks done first and then machine whatever necesary you should be pretty right. It will pay off in the end, as it'd suck to assemble it all and then have a failure due to the tunnel being out of alignment or something stupid.

It will save you in the long run, If you do it right the first time then you only have to do it once..... Good luck with it, it's a good feeling once you assemble it all and then it runs sweet.

Cheers

Les

[mrlctorana]

^^Agree^^

[red6]

got some arp rod bolts on the way from ebay.

started looking into cams...

http://www.crowcams....e-Holden6.shtml

looking at a;

35603 or 35666

probly 35603 as crow said this was more aggresive and probly the most you could get away with with only a two barell carby.

still undecided on straight or helical cut gears.

however this is only slightly more aggressive than my current cam dynotec stage 2 so im unsure if ill bother.

current cam is;

in 30/70 ex 70/30 280 duration

thoughts or just a waste of money for little return?

Edited by red6, 09 July 2007 - 10:25 PM.

[mrlctorana]

It's up to you Rob, how old is the dyontec cam??? Personal opinion on helical or straight cut, I love the sound of straight cuts so that what I put in mine and I'm not sick of them after 5 years.....

Les

[red6]

still undecided on the timing gears, i change my mind every 5 minutes.

les: the cam is done less than 10,000km and i put it in with new pushrods and lifters ect so im thinking ill just stick to this one ive got at the moment to keep costs down.

tim: ill let you know if im intersted in the cam for the next stage of development when i do tripples ect ect after i get tired of this combo.

tyrefryer: thanks mate, like everyone else on the forum has said you really need to do a cam to take proper advatage of the head you have. trust me you wont be happy with just bolting the head on.

to put this into perspective if "in theory" i had ever had any traffic light battles i would say with your yt head, 202 AND a cam you will keep up with vl's r31 skylines ect and most v6 commodores up till vs

without a cam it you probly wont

then just bolt on a ww2 or twin strombergs and you will quite comfortable beat them.

alot of this depends on the driver, diff gearing and that an lc is much lighter than a commodore ect. a uc is much heavier so this takes away that advantage a little.

my torana still has 2.78s tho so that really holds it back a bit.

good news is ive just made a small fortune on ebay tho so it looks like the rebuild will definetly be happening over the next month while i have access to another daily while the parents are away.

[red6]

arp rob bolts from ebay turned up today and straight cut timing gears are on order.

engine out by next week.

should i be looking at running flat top pistons?

Edited by red6, 17 July 2007 - 06:05 PM.

[red6]

the straight cuts turned up today they are CS6202 crow items the hardened steel ones which have the multiple keyways. which cam timing should i be looking at running? or do i need to provide more cam specs so you guys can tell me?

[red6]

$120 but i got quotes from other people up to $165, i hunt around pretty hard to save a few $$$'s hence why the arp bolts came off ebay.