Just wondering on peoples thoughts here.
Lx torana sedan and doing a complete IRS conversion ??
i have my own thoughts about it and spoken to my engineer who we will be working thru it, but just curious on other peoples ideas.
rear end will most likely be from a skyline gtr. which includes brakes, diff, abs sensors (for traction control), driveshats, etc......
LX + IRS Conversion ??
Started by
_LX_SS_
, Jul 03 2007 09:43 PM
23 replies to this topic
#2
TerrA LX
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Posted 03 July 2007 - 10:27 PM
Cool and a big WOW factor but IMHO WOFTAM. 2c.
#3
rodomo
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Posted 03 July 2007 - 10:43 PM
You want to what him up the where with a what???????????Cool and a big WOW factor but IMHO WOFTAM. 2c.
Edited by rodomo, 03 July 2007 - 10:44 PM.
#4
dattoman
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Posted 04 July 2007 - 12:25 AM
They used to do Jag conversions on EH's and Panelvans years ago
Anyone old enough to remember that ?
Anyone old enough to remember that ?
#5
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Posted 04 July 2007 - 12:26 AM
An original idea I think, thats great! I helped my mate out the other day with his skyline doing a rear wheel alingment. Its 4 wheel steer, but he changed the electronic steering unit and fitted a kinda solid rack so to speak. Because at over 80km/h, the extra 2 degree steer would kick in when turning and buck the arse end out. Even when he was doing burn outs at the strip, it would kick out. I think if you're going IRS out of a skyline leave out that nasty electronic steering unit! Looking underneath at that set up, you sure do have your work cut out for ya! 
Good luck!
Good luck!
#6
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Posted 04 July 2007 - 12:33 AM
I believe the Bathurst GTR's were front wheel only steer too.
#7
Toranamat69
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Posted 04 July 2007 - 12:39 AM
There was a guy in NZ a couple of years ago got on here all excited and was doing the same thing with a skyline rear. He flashed a few early pics around then we never heard from him again.
Good idea and show us all how it goes. I checked with my engineer a few years back about it and he was very hesitant about approving it as there is no actual criteria for this type of conversion under QLD's current MPV rules - hopefully when the NCOP rules come in this will allow something along the lines of what you have in mind with the Skyline rear.
We removed the Hicas from my mates 300ZX TT rear for the exact same reason as Brewster says above - they are very unpredictable as you go through the 80km/h speed and the hicas kicks in.
I would have to say why would you keep a live axle unless it was only a drag car.
Toranas handle like shit and need all the help they can get.
One day when I finish my front end fun and games I am going to move onto the rear end so I am still absorbing all the options and reading up on anything to do with IRS setups I come across in my travels.
M@
Good idea and show us all how it goes. I checked with my engineer a few years back about it and he was very hesitant about approving it as there is no actual criteria for this type of conversion under QLD's current MPV rules - hopefully when the NCOP rules come in this will allow something along the lines of what you have in mind with the Skyline rear.
We removed the Hicas from my mates 300ZX TT rear for the exact same reason as Brewster says above - they are very unpredictable as you go through the 80km/h speed and the hicas kicks in.
I would have to say why would you keep a live axle unless it was only a drag car.
Toranas handle like shit and need all the help they can get.
One day when I finish my front end fun and games I am going to move onto the rear end so I am still absorbing all the options and reading up on anything to do with IRS setups I come across in my travels.
M@
#8
TerrA LX
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Posted 04 July 2007 - 02:31 AM
Maybe you should check out the VL Brock Director with optional IRS, if you can find it.
Was a similar set up to Skyline but no steer and with a similar track it might go straight in.
Was a similar set up to Skyline but no steer and with a similar track it might go straight in.
#9
_LX_SS_
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Posted 04 July 2007 - 06:33 AM
well i check with the engineer at start of august about how we tackle this on exactly. but the skyline rear will not have the hicas system, it will defiantly be locked.
main thing is that i want the car to handle, not drive in a straight line.
at the moment its still in the thought process and depending how the engineer recommends about going about it depends on its outcome. As i don't want to start something that won't be passed.
main thing is that i want the car to handle, not drive in a straight line.
at the moment its still in the thought process and depending how the engineer recommends about going about it depends on its outcome. As i don't want to start something that won't be passed.
#10
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Posted 04 July 2007 - 09:05 AM
theres a guy down sydney who has a eh with a twin turbo skyline motor and complete rear floorplan from a skyline welded in his eh so he can run the independant rear end as well. I bought a hr front end of him and he showed me his car and i nearly passed out. Absolutely immaculate and looks totally stock.
If you go to the qld eh formum and ask around someone there will be able to put you in touch with him, he was one of the nicest, honest strangers i have meet in a long while.
cheers julian
If you go to the qld eh formum and ask around someone there will be able to put you in touch with him, he was one of the nicest, honest strangers i have meet in a long while.
cheers julian
#11
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Posted 04 July 2007 - 10:43 AM
Hi LX SS
Great minds think alike...
I was the one who started down this track a while ago, but with a couple of other projects to finish first I haven't done much more than research this idea and collect the bits required...
I have a complete R32 GTR rear and have mocked it up under the rear of my UC 4 door. The work needed is not as extensive as you would think...
The front subframe mounts fall where the rear subframe meets the sills so a suitable mont is not to hard to build. The rear mounts would require a new crossmember between the chassis rails in front of the fuel tank. This would also need some mods to the front of the tank for clearance.
The main clash is between the front mounts of both the top and bottom suspension arms and the front section of the chassis rail between the existing spring mount and the sill. This section would have to be custom built approx 75mm in toward the centre of the car.
Mounts for coilover shocks would need to be fabricated in place of the existing spring mounts.
I'll try to find some photo's for you...
On the plus side the GTR suspension geometry is excellent.
You get the excellent 300mm vented disc setup with alloy 2 spot calipers.
The std R200 diff centre is super strong and is available in 4.11:1 (R32 Auto) and 3.9:1 (R32 Manual).
The R230 diff centre from a 300ZXTT bolts in and is 3.7:1 ratio. Crown wheel is 9.05" and is stronger than a Ford 9". All are available as viscous LSD, or aftermarket mechanical.
CV's and axles are bulletproof.
The width between the wheel 'bolt up faces' is identical to the VL Commo, a couple of inches wider than the Torana, so may need custom offset wheels.
The rear steer can be replaced with a solid rack for around $150. Accepts the std rack ends so you can still adjust toe settings.
Further reading...
http://www.twinvl.tk/black.html
http://www.gweeds.ne...odoreindex.html
Both VL Commodores but some good info...
Great minds think alike...
I was the one who started down this track a while ago, but with a couple of other projects to finish first I haven't done much more than research this idea and collect the bits required...
I have a complete R32 GTR rear and have mocked it up under the rear of my UC 4 door. The work needed is not as extensive as you would think...
The front subframe mounts fall where the rear subframe meets the sills so a suitable mont is not to hard to build. The rear mounts would require a new crossmember between the chassis rails in front of the fuel tank. This would also need some mods to the front of the tank for clearance.
The main clash is between the front mounts of both the top and bottom suspension arms and the front section of the chassis rail between the existing spring mount and the sill. This section would have to be custom built approx 75mm in toward the centre of the car.
Mounts for coilover shocks would need to be fabricated in place of the existing spring mounts.
I'll try to find some photo's for you...
On the plus side the GTR suspension geometry is excellent.
You get the excellent 300mm vented disc setup with alloy 2 spot calipers.
The std R200 diff centre is super strong and is available in 4.11:1 (R32 Auto) and 3.9:1 (R32 Manual).
The R230 diff centre from a 300ZXTT bolts in and is 3.7:1 ratio. Crown wheel is 9.05" and is stronger than a Ford 9". All are available as viscous LSD, or aftermarket mechanical.
CV's and axles are bulletproof.
The width between the wheel 'bolt up faces' is identical to the VL Commo, a couple of inches wider than the Torana, so may need custom offset wheels.
The rear steer can be replaced with a solid rack for around $150. Accepts the std rack ends so you can still adjust toe settings.
Further reading...
http://www.twinvl.tk/black.html
http://www.gweeds.ne...odoreindex.html
Both VL Commodores but some good info...
#12
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Posted 10 August 2007 - 06:53 PM
Hi
Photo's finally...
GTR right hand suspension. The offending two suspension mounts are on the right side of the photo.
Bare subframe sitting approx 200mm lower than it should. Last time I tried this I had the fuel tank out so could get the subframe a lot higher.
The front upper and lower suspension arm mounts that clash with the chassis rail and the can shows where the front subframe mount will sit.
The subframe clashes with the fuel tank by approx 50mm.
Also the pinion snubber and mount will have to be removed fron the top of the trans tunnel.
More photo's at http://s180.photobuc...mediafilter=all
Photo's finally...
GTR right hand suspension. The offending two suspension mounts are on the right side of the photo.
Bare subframe sitting approx 200mm lower than it should. Last time I tried this I had the fuel tank out so could get the subframe a lot higher.
The front upper and lower suspension arm mounts that clash with the chassis rail and the can shows where the front subframe mount will sit.
The subframe clashes with the fuel tank by approx 50mm.
Also the pinion snubber and mount will have to be removed fron the top of the trans tunnel.
More photo's at http://s180.photobuc...mediafilter=all
#13
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Posted 10 August 2007 - 11:36 PM
I was thinkig of a corvette rear end, some nice alloy suspension arms and alloy cradle where it all bolts on to.
#14
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Posted 11 August 2007 - 07:45 AM
wouldnt it be simpler to use an irs out of a VR/VS, I was thinking this months ago but am too lazy too look into it, that way you could use the whole VR/VS 5 Litre drivetrain
#15
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Posted 11 August 2007 - 10:46 AM
There would be several different IRS setups that would work well under a Torana, and some may fit in easier than the GTR.
The subframe shape may reduce the amount of chassis modification required, VR-VS for example may well clear the chassis rail.
They will all have similar mounting arrangements, 4 rubber bushes, which may be in a better position.
Coilover mounting points will vary too.
Apart from those three factors they all require the same brake, hand brake, driveshaft, etc hookups as any rear end.
I picked the GTR rear for the following reasons:
Cost - Complete setup incl brakes from a sub 100k GTR cost me $400. Sub 100k 300zx diff was $50.
Strength - 300zx centre has a 9" crown wheel and is considerably stronger than a std 9". Both the diff and axles, etc will handle 500-600 ftlbs torque with no drama.
Most other rear ends would require some modification to reach that level.
Suspension Geometry - Basic geometry is excellent and appears to work well with the Torana front from what I have been able to find out so far. Still under investigation.
Brakes - GTR comes std with 300mm vented rotors and twin pot alloy calipers.
Personal preference - Having owned a couple of turbo Skylines, I have a huge amount of respect for the engineering that has gone into these cars and Nissan in general.
The chassis mods are not a concern for me as I always intended to fit a full chassis to the car. This is just part of that process. An alloy drop tank is also part of the plan and will be built to clear the rear subframe mounts.
This is a long term project, I have a VL wagon and a 350 powered UC to finish first and a new garage/workshop to build, so it will be early next year before I can turn the car over and make a real start...
The subframe shape may reduce the amount of chassis modification required, VR-VS for example may well clear the chassis rail.
They will all have similar mounting arrangements, 4 rubber bushes, which may be in a better position.
Coilover mounting points will vary too.
Apart from those three factors they all require the same brake, hand brake, driveshaft, etc hookups as any rear end.
I picked the GTR rear for the following reasons:
Cost - Complete setup incl brakes from a sub 100k GTR cost me $400. Sub 100k 300zx diff was $50.
Strength - 300zx centre has a 9" crown wheel and is considerably stronger than a std 9". Both the diff and axles, etc will handle 500-600 ftlbs torque with no drama.
Most other rear ends would require some modification to reach that level.
Suspension Geometry - Basic geometry is excellent and appears to work well with the Torana front from what I have been able to find out so far. Still under investigation.
Brakes - GTR comes std with 300mm vented rotors and twin pot alloy calipers.
Personal preference - Having owned a couple of turbo Skylines, I have a huge amount of respect for the engineering that has gone into these cars and Nissan in general.
The chassis mods are not a concern for me as I always intended to fit a full chassis to the car. This is just part of that process. An alloy drop tank is also part of the plan and will be built to clear the rear subframe mounts.
This is a long term project, I have a VL wagon and a 350 powered UC to finish first and a new garage/workshop to build, so it will be early next year before I can turn the car over and make a real start...
#16
dattoman
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Posted 11 August 2007 - 01:54 PM
The full chassis idea is a good one and I am discussing with someone now on a similar thing
I have a guy here local who wants to build full chassis for his drag cars and possibly some street registered ICV's
He uses HK Monaros usually and wants me to make a fibreglass mold and body shells
I told him once he finds me a perfect example we can get started
He's also on the prowl for a Hatchback shell so he can make them too
He's going thru the process with rego authorities first to see if we can make and register them
Imagine a 'glass Hatchback on a fabricated chassis with IRS, Gen3 6 speed etc.... nice and light and powerful.... yummy
I have a guy here local who wants to build full chassis for his drag cars and possibly some street registered ICV's
He uses HK Monaros usually and wants me to make a fibreglass mold and body shells
I told him once he finds me a perfect example we can get started
He's also on the prowl for a Hatchback shell so he can make them too
He's going thru the process with rego authorities first to see if we can make and register them
Imagine a 'glass Hatchback on a fabricated chassis with IRS, Gen3 6 speed etc.... nice and light and powerful.... yummy
#17
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Posted 11 August 2007 - 02:24 PM
Brilliant idea...
I'll take 1 LX hatch with the full R34 GTR drive train and suspension installed thanks...
I'll take 1 LX hatch with the full R34 GTR drive train and suspension installed thanks...
#18
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Posted 11 August 2007 - 02:34 PM
I'm definately old enough to rememberThey used to do Jag conversions on EH's and Panelvans years ago
Anyone old enough to remember that ?
have also seen plenty of jaguar rear ends in HQ to WB utes and vans
I have even seen one in a Torana , an LX sedan................
#19
Heath
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Posted 11 August 2007 - 04:09 PM
I've seen one in an FJ.
#20
orangeLJ
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Posted 14 August 2007 - 08:44 AM
ive got an old street machine at home with one in a HR pano.
#21
MRLXSS
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Posted 14 August 2007 - 11:17 AM
Now, Don't go and get us all excited!!!!Imagine a 'glass Hatchback on a fabricated chassis with IRS, Gen3 6 speed etc.... nice and light and powerful.... yummy
Something like that would be insane! Probably the coolest car in the world!
#22
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 01:58 PM
Hey all,
I have recently been contemplating putting an independant rear end in my hatch to. I thought it wouldn't be a bad fourth year engineering project. Instead of using a setup from another car though, i was going to put a chassis kit in, weld in a plate between the two rails. Have two a arms going out to two uprights, with a cv joint connected to the hub. From the middle of the a-arm have a coil over shock going back up to the re-inforcing plate. The next thing is how to mount the diff.
However this would be very expensive and i don't believe there would be that much of an improvement from any other conventional diff except if you live down a really sub-standard road.
Just my two cents worth.
Tom
I have recently been contemplating putting an independant rear end in my hatch to. I thought it wouldn't be a bad fourth year engineering project. Instead of using a setup from another car though, i was going to put a chassis kit in, weld in a plate between the two rails. Have two a arms going out to two uprights, with a cv joint connected to the hub. From the middle of the a-arm have a coil over shock going back up to the re-inforcing plate. The next thing is how to mount the diff.
However this would be very expensive and i don't believe there would be that much of an improvement from any other conventional diff except if you live down a really sub-standard road.
Just my two cents worth.
Tom
#23
LX2DR
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 06:00 PM
So am iI'm definately old enough to rememberThey used to do Jag conversions on EH's and Panelvans years ago
Anyone old enough to remember that ?
have also seen plenty of jaguar rear ends in HQ to WB utes and vans
I have even seen one in a Torana , an LX sedan................
but my experience was an EH wagon with a Volvo IRS, disc brake rearend.Been a long time since so can't remember the year or model, this was an excellent setup and ran the correct stud pattern to use standard wheels as well as his mags.
Was in the Glenroy (Melb) area about 15 odd years ago.
Not sure about the strength, as it primarly a show car.
Paul
#24
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Posted 16 October 2007 - 05:27 PM
toranas handle like shit! better tell PB that, was good enoegh for 2.20 at Bathurst!!
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