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Dent Repair without Bog!??


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#1 UCANG

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 11:25 PM

Please, someone has to help me out here!

Someone here must be a professional or can do a preofessional job and repairing dents! What's the most EFFECTIVE way to repair dents on a door, or wherever.. Especially little ripple dents... WITHOUT USING BOG! I hate bog with a passion, and I don't want my car full of bog. is there something you can do with metal to fill up??

And same when repairing rust. After you have welded the plate in, and grinded it down, How can you get an excellent repair, without the use of bog!
Someone has got to help me

(Keep in mind too, that i'll be throwing 2pack over the car, so If there is any materials or stuff I should use, please let me know if it works well with 2pack). Thankyou Fellas!!!!!!!!!!

#2 _Herne_

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 11:41 PM

One way is to panel beat with a 'slapper' and then file finish. It's much easier to say than to do.... lol

Others here may well enlighten you further as I am not a panel beater.

Cheers
Herne

#3 GML-31

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 09:38 AM

Hey Herne how many old slappers have you handled lately????

#4 _Herne_

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 09:44 AM

hehehee, to answer that I might have to incriminate myself ;)

ROTFLPML

Cheers
Herne

#5 _Yella SLuR_

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 11:49 AM

Dolly, hammer, patience, body file, speed file, sander to take the paint off (need correct sanding technique as well), possibly a heat source to do some heat shrinks depending on the damage.

Being a UC, it has intrusion bars, so to do a repair in the intrusion bar area you really need to sand paint back, an easy beat, body file & patience.

With all of that, you may still end up with a small smear of bog, how much depends on the patience factor.

#6 MRLXSS

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 01:36 PM

Lots of High Fill Primer :spoton: haha which is pretty much the same as bog! haha

I agree with wat was said above, a dolly, hammer and LOTS of patience. and also i reckon a smallamount of bog will be required, or even high fill primer...

#7 _Pete_

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 06:30 PM

Firstly, there's no need to be scared of modern light weight body fillers used correctly.

"BOG" got a bad name because monkeys dont use it correctly, it really should be named "Conteur restorer" as that is what its meant to do, restore the conteur after the repair has been performed. NOT to fill unrepaired dents!!!

If your completely against it and refuse to use it then of course you can do as the other guys have mentioned and get yourself the necessary hammers & dollys (the more varied the better) and a metal body file and go to town, or you can also use Lead if you don't value your health and want to add the heavy stuff to your panels and run the risk of contaminating your paint job. Personally i don't think there is a need for Lead nowdays considering the technological advances in Modern plastic fillers when used correctly.

A lot of Pro shops here and in the US will claim to metal finish a job and brag about the NO BOG IN THIS JOB but then plaster the car in 4 coats of Spray Polyester and block it down, then another 4-5 coats of 2K putty, NOT that there is anything wrong with this at all but its not really any different than using the correct application of a good quality filler and normal putty routine.

That might be the best option for yourself if you dont wish to use any body fillers, Do your repairs and metal finish them and then 2K spray polyester the entire car and then block it down to get it completely straight. Then your normal paint procedure.

#8 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 08:08 PM

i agree ^^^

#9 _Yella SLuR_

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 08:51 PM

Commercially I think it's got more to do with the difference between making a buck and being a benovolent society, which is a fair call. It is possible to do all metal repairs, but it takes a hell of a lot of time, which most people aren't willing to pay for, so it's bit of a compromise. Bit the same as car repairs. I know I do heaps of things when repairing my cars that just wouldn't be economical for the mechanic to do, i.e. fully cleaning and painting parts.

In the same breath, the new fillers are pretty good, provided of course you provide a well keyed surface for it to stick to in the first place (that old sanding technique again). Most problems I've seen with fillers are when it's applied to an ill prepared surface.

Meant to mention before, even with all metal repair there is also a balance. Too much bashing results in stretching the metal, which then takes even more time fix.

Edited by Yella SLuR, 30 January 2006 - 08:55 PM.


#10 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 10:27 PM

one good tip, around welded in rust repairs use fibre reinforced putty. this stuff is waterproof, i shouldent need to say why this helps.

#11 UCANG

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 04:40 PM

So after finishing a repair. What's do I use to seal it off,making it able to sit there ready for primer or whatever, so I can continue doing another ding or rust?
(remembering I'm using 2pack paint, not acrylic)


Is this correct:
I want to do a patch of rust.
I start off by rubbing around where the rust is, I find out that the cancer has spread more than the eye can actually see. I rub it around untill there is no more rust visible. I Sand/ Grind it all down. Cut out the rust. Cut out a similar peice of sheet metal. Using a GAS mig welder, I weld the plate in the hole. But in spots all around. So the metal doesnt bow, keeping the metal as cool as possible. I then grind it down nice and smooth.
I put rust converter on it ????

(Now I'm hoping that the repair is good enough to not use any filler :P ) If not, THINLY wipe the area with some GOOD QUALITY filler. (So then the filler is straight onto bare metal)
Sand it down with the correct sandpaper.

and then seal it. with the approriate sealer. keeping in mind, i'll be using 2pack materials.

Can I use 2pack spray putty? I have heard it's some magic shit!!

Correct me if i am wrong in any part, and or if you got some great tips for me.

#12 _Pete_

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 05:59 PM

Mate your on the right track.

It all depends on what your trying to acheive,

I'm guessing that because you don't want to use any Bog you must be chasing a perfect/show quality finish.

I'd personally disassemble the entire car to a bare shell, Bare metal the entire outside of the car. your choice how you do it, I normally use 80grit on a 7in Soft back-up pad electric Sander and then finish off with some 100grit on a DA air sander, you could also Paint strip it or have it media blasted.

Then i'd clean it down and spray the entire outside in 2 pack Epoxy Etch Primer, Glasurit is really nice to use (although expensive). With the 2k epoxy etch you can then do all your repairs as you go and you can even use filler over this as long as you key the surface nicely. Once you've completed your repair to say one panel you can always just give it a light coat of Acrylic Primer surfacer to keep it from rusting or getting contaminated while you repair another part. You'd then wash this Acrylic Primer off with Acrylic thinners before you 2K putty the whole car after you've got it all repaired.

With your rust patch i'd recommend using the rust convertor after you've cut the offending sheet metal out and before you weld your patch in. You can always use the converter on it again after you've welded it in but that might be a little bit of overkill although won't hurt as long as you clean it up correctly before using any filler or paint over it.

Buy the best quality 2K you can afford, people have different opinions on what is the best but as long as you stay with a known trusted brand you'll be fine, I like Glasurit paints (mainly because thats what the shop i work at has in place), PPG is also good and i'm sure other guys can recommend some brands they've also used.

Good luck and remember don't be afraid to post pics or ask any questions

#13 UCANG

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 06:22 PM

Great help!
I'm becoming less afraid to do the work myself now.

Although, what is 'keying' exactly. Roughening up the surface to allow whatever to bind with better contact?

#14 LXdamo

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 07:26 PM

UCANG,
if u want to see what 2k looks like with a bit of
"conteur restorer" underneath,u should have a squiz
at my car.
u prob would have seen it around as i only live 5 mins
from salisbury.
But if u want a closer look maybe u should pm me
and can have a chat.

#15 _big chris_

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 11:03 AM

UCANG,

With the rust repair,
After you weld and grind,

You must ensure that you clean up all the burn marks on the steel,
including any small pits in the welded zone,
right down to the smallest brown or black mark,
as it will be the source of futher rust and poor adhesion for surface coats,
I have this drummed into me every day at work, See I did listen, lol.
(I am a 2nd year spraypainter)

If you want to go futher you can chemically clean the surface,
clean the surface with "Deoxidine" or similar product,
Dont get this on anything that you are not stripping and repainting,
this etches the steel, may require several applications to get "clean",
if the surface has a "brown-yellow" look, need futher cleaning,
re-apply the deoxidine.
once you have a nice clean "blue" looking steel surface,
sand again with 320 grade, to remove the blue,
and etch prime,
prime as soon as possible,
to stop any futher surface rust cause by humidity on the bare steel.

a 2k etch primer, will bond well to you newly cleaned steel,
and be a good base to work from.

Any other filling can be done over your 2k etch base,
rub the etch back with a red scourer, to remove the shiny surface.
Can be purchased at most auto paint suppliers,
there is a place near Salisbury wrecker that sells all the stuff you might need.

"Keying" in exactly that,
you get better adhesion to a surface that is rough,
than one that is very smooth,
because you have more surface area,
and the primer or filler can attached into the fine scratches left by the sanding,
as long as you have blown all the sanding dust off before the next coat.


Have fun,

Cheers
Chris.

#16 _SSkid_

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 07:31 PM

sounds easy huh wait till its finished.. i bet it goes to a panel shop

#17 LS1LX

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 07:49 PM

Dont stretch the metal too much or you will need to shrink it (oxy).

Gotta love you guys and your niki-welding :D

#18 _threeblindmice_

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 04:07 PM

I knew a bog artist a few years back , and when applying bog he would do from one end of the panel to the other end , is this better than just applying to the repaired area ?

#19 _Herne_

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 04:22 PM

sounds easy huh wait till its finished.. i bet it goes to a panel shop


I agree :) ^^^^^^

Herne

#20 orangeLJ

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 04:31 PM

lots of people on here have done their own panel work with pretty good results, take heath for example, or Matt (MRLXSS) taught themselves pretty much and tackled their cars head on.

not all of them are doh for show type of people, they actually give it a whirl and try and do things themselves, so instead of putting them down because you havent succeeded when you tried or were simply not willing to try, how bout a bit of encouragment?

#21 wot179

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 05:16 PM

I knew a bog artist a few years back , and when applying bog he would do from one end of the panel to the other end , is this better than just applying to the repaired area ?



I have a long term project which may never be finished,a HR Holden.
The body was customised and repaired in 1990.
The car was paintstripped and 2pack etched.
After the repairs were done,and the panels aligned,the entire car was given a skin of nicky.
It was then speedfiled and dry sanded dead flat.
It got 3 coats of highfill and was sealed with cheap black acrylic(to use as a guide coat when final blocking down for paint)
It was finally blocked down and painted in black 2pack in 1996.
13 years later,the car still looks dead straight,aside from a small delamination on the bonnet.(someone elses repair)
It could use a cut and buff,but the nicky seems to have done all its shrinking from sitting around for years before the final colour went on.

I think a panel finishes flatter if you trowell the whole thing.
I have no problem with nicky.

I do not recommend taking this long with a project .Ive had it 23years.Been off the road for 21.

#22 _threeblindmice_

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 06:18 PM

I'm lucky I guess ,the rust I have found is in the sills , so much for the quick paint job .

#23 _nial8r_

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 06:28 PM

pretty much everything has been covered here and yes big has got a bad name from tools useing it to hide rust and so on but i have always stuck by my words

"BOG IS FOR DENTS NOT RUST"

SO DONT STRESS DUDE IF YA NEED A FINE WIPE SO BE IT !!!!


#24 _torana_

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 06:44 PM

you want to use hardly any bog?

do this search on utube and learn how to use a shrinking disc. Not sure if many guys on here have heard about them.

http://www.youtube.c...e...g disc&aq=f

cheers julian

#25 _Pete_

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 07:12 PM

I have a shrinking disc here that i've bought but am yet to use it, i've got a good candidate coming up for it's use soon so hopefully it will go as well as i've seen them go.

That said a shrinking disc or bog or a magic wand won't replace inadequate hammer and dolly work.

Be interesting to see how the car UCANG was restoring turned out.




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