I am after any information about media blasting, whats the best material to use, posatives negatives, rough idea what to expect to pay for a complete car exterior, any recomendations in Adelaide.
I have an LC 2 door rolling shell with a few parts but need alot. It has been bare metal at some stage and got covered in surface rust and then undercoated, its relatively straight with a few repairs to do, but fairly good floors and boot. Its a great start for my project
Media Blasting
Started by
_squirralien_
, May 27 2008 10:33 PM
45 replies to this topic
#2
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 27 May 2008 - 11:13 PM
In my opinion Soda Blasting as far superior to sand or bead blasting.
See this thread.
http://www.gmh-toran...showtopic=17821
See this thread.
http://www.gmh-toran...showtopic=17821
#3
_squirralien_
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Posted 28 May 2008 - 08:25 PM
Thanks for that link and your thoughts, I have only been able to find a sand blaster around my area but I am still looking for the options that I may not have found here yet
thanks again,
Im still interested in any other opinions or personal experiences if there are any to be told
thanks again,
Im still interested in any other opinions or personal experiences if there are any to be told
#4
_brutass08_
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Posted 29 May 2008 - 10:32 PM
Hey champ , have been doing a little investigating on this , still going to do more , I was considering soda blasting , got a quote that put me of a little so looked in other websites ie american type hotrod ones etc , and have definately been put of by what I read. Not all that good over there , they obviously have had soda blasting a lot longer than us , and are now having problems ie paint adhesion , panels corroding from the inside out ( due to sodablasting leaving residue in between panels and unable to be neutralised ) of course this wont happen staight away , but eventually it does . According to them a good operator with a sandblaster will achieve a much better result and eliminate these and other problems they seem to be having or have had with the soda.Anyway when I get time I will be chasing more info on this , but for now I personally wont be using soda and will lean towards getting a good sandblaster on the job.Cheers Brutass.
#5
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 30 May 2008 - 12:49 AM
It is practically impossible to get all the sand out of a car once it has been blasted. The sand that remains is a moisture trap.
#6
LS1LX
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Posted 30 May 2008 - 06:22 PM
I have worked with all type of blasting on cars, they all have there good and bad points.
Sand is good on pitted out rusting metal, but needs to be done at low psi or warpage is a high factor.
Soda is useless on a car with rust and bog, it is perfect for taking off paint but leaves all the filler and rust, not good.
The company our customer had his car done with did a shit job, they blasted the print off his ID tag, they left soda everywhere and its just coming out left right and centre.
Plastic media is very $$ but very nice finish, if money isnt a $$ I highly recommend.
If you have a rust free, bog free car (u wouldnt strip it down for starters) then I would recommend soda.
Anything other I recommend the media, plastic garnit.
Sand is good on pitted out rusting metal, but needs to be done at low psi or warpage is a high factor.
Soda is useless on a car with rust and bog, it is perfect for taking off paint but leaves all the filler and rust, not good.
The company our customer had his car done with did a shit job, they blasted the print off his ID tag, they left soda everywhere and its just coming out left right and centre.
Plastic media is very $$ but very nice finish, if money isnt a $$ I highly recommend.
If you have a rust free, bog free car (u wouldnt strip it down for starters) then I would recommend soda.
Anything other I recommend the media, plastic garnit.
#7
_squirralien_
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Posted 30 May 2008 - 09:25 PM
this is all hreat info, thanks to you all for the time to research and or to reply, I did get a local quote the other day and it was using garnet, they said of the stone variety garnet and i see LS1LX you mentioned plastic garnet, I will have to look in to this a bit more and see if it is the same, they quoted me $500 to $600 to do the outside of the car and said they don't do the middle of the roof, bonnets or boot lids. This sounds like a bargain price, and another quote between $1000 and $1100 to do the outside of the car in sand blasting except the same areas no roof centre, bonnets or boot lids.
thanks again for all of your information
thanks again for all of your information
#8
_2runa_
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Posted 30 May 2008 - 09:53 PM
I own a large sand blaster and have used it many times on car panels, the idea is to re-use old sand and turn the pressure down to a min.
Sand or soda will both collect in the same places and attract rust. soda can be used on a car that still has the windows in sand cannot,
If its rusty use sand carefully
Sand or soda will both collect in the same places and attract rust. soda can be used on a car that still has the windows in sand cannot,
If its rusty use sand carefully
#9
_squirralien_
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Posted 31 May 2008 - 02:38 PM
That makes alot of sense, i suppose many people may have the pressure up to do a job quicker when with thin metal the lower pressure will be slower but safer for the panel,
after the car has been blasted I am going to do the body work thats needed of coarse and the body will be soaked eveywhere internally I can get to with fish oil or something similar so i guess i will end up with a slurry of rust proof sludge, it will be a bit heavier than the normal torana so ill have to go a step further with the power haha, well it makes sence to me, I think sand is looking the way to go but I might see if I can find someone that will be happy to do it at low pressure even if it takes a little longer,
I have heard alot of support for the soda both from here and reading on the net and it sounds great but a few comments about problems afterwards where as the sand seems pretty safe as long as its done right.
Im not real happy about having left over anything in the car that can't be removed but I think it is a desicion between sand and manually and extremely carefully doing it manually with a buff and a grinding disk and as I am not one of the most patient people around I think it could be sand in the end, My best quote was 5 to 600 dollars for the outside of the vehicle.
Thank you to all I think I am so much closer to knowing my direction but I will keep watching the thread incase, as more input is always good, ill stop watching once I have done something because then I don't want to know, I only want to believe
after the car has been blasted I am going to do the body work thats needed of coarse and the body will be soaked eveywhere internally I can get to with fish oil or something similar so i guess i will end up with a slurry of rust proof sludge, it will be a bit heavier than the normal torana so ill have to go a step further with the power haha, well it makes sence to me, I think sand is looking the way to go but I might see if I can find someone that will be happy to do it at low pressure even if it takes a little longer,
I have heard alot of support for the soda both from here and reading on the net and it sounds great but a few comments about problems afterwards where as the sand seems pretty safe as long as its done right.
Im not real happy about having left over anything in the car that can't be removed but I think it is a desicion between sand and manually and extremely carefully doing it manually with a buff and a grinding disk and as I am not one of the most patient people around I think it could be sand in the end, My best quote was 5 to 600 dollars for the outside of the vehicle.
Thank you to all I think I am so much closer to knowing my direction but I will keep watching the thread incase, as more input is always good, ill stop watching once I have done something because then I don't want to know, I only want to believe
Edited by squirralien, 31 May 2008 - 02:41 PM.
#10
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Posted 01 June 2008 - 07:09 AM
I had my LH Torana media blasted with garnet (not plastic garnet), it has a fine sandy texture but is apparently not as harsh on the panels etc with deformation. I blew up a vacumn cleaner sucking excess garnet out of the shell once I got it back 
. There was a fair bit of it left in the car - i'd guess at around 10-15kg. But I'm happy that I've got the majority of it out 
. The painter managed to dislodge some of it when painting inside the cabin and it had to be redone so care needed there. Overall I was happy with the results and the car is finished now - occaisionally some small amounts of garnett drop out of crevices but not much.
Hope thats useful and good luck
. There was a fair bit of it left in the car - i'd guess at around 10-15kg. But I'm happy that I've got the majority of it out . The painter managed to dislodge some of it when painting inside the cabin and it had to be redone so care needed there. Overall I was happy with the results and the car is finished now - occaisionally some small amounts of garnett drop out of crevices but not much.Hope thats useful and good luck
#11
_squirralien_
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Posted 01 June 2008 - 11:22 AM
Ok that sounds good and to be expected I suppose but about 10 to 15 kg, thats a surprise to me, well I will make up an adaptor that goes on the car wash and service station vacuum cleaners and stop there on the way home and get most of it out, with the suction from those machines and an adaptor that takes it down to a hose size tip will get most of it out I would think.
that was my cheapest quote with the garnet 5 to 600 dollars.
oh and just a little unrelated note on the torana I bought, someone had flared the front guards and last night I had my dolly in one hand and a hammer in the other and now I have a normal looking front guard again, oh and my dolly hasn't got hair, legs, arms or a head, just a solid block of steel.
that was my cheapest quote with the garnet 5 to 600 dollars.
oh and just a little unrelated note on the torana I bought, someone had flared the front guards and last night I had my dolly in one hand and a hammer in the other and now I have a normal looking front guard again, oh and my dolly hasn't got hair, legs, arms or a head, just a solid block of steel.
#12
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Posted 01 June 2008 - 05:06 PM
Have been doing a fair bit of asking around with my own project. Basically these are a few things I found out:
My painter will not do my car if i sand blast it due to the rippling in the thinner( exterior) panels that result due to the friction of the sand on the surface.
Soda blasting is also no good as the media gets trapped in areas such as weld flanges and will react with your paint later, destroying the finish.
The painter would prefer to chemically strip the vehicle himself, but I have found a very good place (in melbourne) that specializes in plastic grit blasting. This is very gentle and will remove most corresion and filler. Select areas (thicker gauge like rails etc) can be sandblasted. Although expensive, $1800 for the whole vehicle, its probably the way to go. Just be sure to question anybody who says they only use plastic grit media, as a lot will say they do, but as its more expensive for them to buy, many will try to substitute the media for something cheaper, and ultimately riskier to the quality of your project. I worked off recommendation, went and checked the business out. As they are specialists in the resto,s of old jag and other high value classic vehicles, I figured they are probably good enough for my SLR. Also quiz the bloke who runs the shop. If he doesnt know his stuff, why he uses particular methods ,what cars he has done etc, dont use him, no matter how cheap. How some of this info helps. Good luck with your job.
My painter will not do my car if i sand blast it due to the rippling in the thinner( exterior) panels that result due to the friction of the sand on the surface.
Soda blasting is also no good as the media gets trapped in areas such as weld flanges and will react with your paint later, destroying the finish.
The painter would prefer to chemically strip the vehicle himself, but I have found a very good place (in melbourne) that specializes in plastic grit blasting. This is very gentle and will remove most corresion and filler. Select areas (thicker gauge like rails etc) can be sandblasted. Although expensive, $1800 for the whole vehicle, its probably the way to go. Just be sure to question anybody who says they only use plastic grit media, as a lot will say they do, but as its more expensive for them to buy, many will try to substitute the media for something cheaper, and ultimately riskier to the quality of your project. I worked off recommendation, went and checked the business out. As they are specialists in the resto,s of old jag and other high value classic vehicles, I figured they are probably good enough for my SLR.
Also quiz the bloke who runs the shop. If he doesnt know his stuff, why he uses particular methods ,what cars he has done etc, dont use him, no matter how cheap. How some of this info helps. Good luck with your job.
#13
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Posted 01 June 2008 - 05:46 PM
Wont any sort of paint removal leave a residue of some sort which needs to be thoughly cleaned and removed...
all blasting leaves media in all sorts of places right? At least soda is water soluble... Paint stripper needs to be thouroughly cleaned.. even sanding leaves dust everywhere..
I thought Soda would be the best way (non rusty/non bogged areas) then just use plenty of water and wash out all of the crevises etc and dry it straight away?
all blasting leaves media in all sorts of places right? At least soda is water soluble... Paint stripper needs to be thouroughly cleaned.. even sanding leaves dust everywhere..
I thought Soda would be the best way (non rusty/non bogged areas) then just use plenty of water and wash out all of the crevises etc and dry it straight away?
#14
Mort
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Posted 01 June 2008 - 06:19 PM
^^ my thoughts to Viper, seems like someone has had or read about bad experiences with all of them so i suppose it comes down to an individuals preferance.
#15
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Posted 02 June 2008 - 10:24 AM
Ive been tossing the idea(not myself 
) about investing in a soda blaster for a buisness venture, not only for cars but for industrial, marine and grafitti removal etc etc, and as far as the car side of things, the soda is totally non destructive on things like rubber, glass, chrome, it will not heat the panels at all, and as stated, all media leaves residue, but the beauty of soda is that the garden hose will dissolve everything,then air dry and fisholene or similar( I prefer POR products personally) It all comes down to preparation, before , during and after and spending the time doing it right.......its true soda will not remove heavy rust, but you cut the rust out anyway or at the very least use a flap disc on the surface stuff......as for the price, i personally think its way overpriced unless bicarb-soda costs a mint, which I dont think is the case.....on average it only takes 3-4 hours to do a whole car, $350.00 an hour???I dont think so 
On paint adhesion, after the car is blasted, how hard would it be to scuff up the panels as part of normal prep for painting, personally, I would prefer a clean flat surface, with no texture as its easier to detect flaws......just my opinion...
) about investing in a soda blaster for a buisness venture, not only for cars but for industrial, marine and grafitti removal etc etc, and as far as the car side of things, the soda is totally non destructive on things like rubber, glass, chrome, it will not heat the panels at all, and as stated, all media leaves residue, but the beauty of soda is that the garden hose will dissolve everything,then air dry and fisholene or similar( I prefer POR products personally) It all comes down to preparation, before , during and after and spending the time doing it right.......its true soda will not remove heavy rust, but you cut the rust out anyway or at the very least use a flap disc on the surface stuff......as for the price, i personally think its way overpriced unless bicarb-soda costs a mint, which I dont think is the case.....on average it only takes 3-4 hours to do a whole car, $350.00 an hour???I dont think so On paint adhesion, after the car is blasted, how hard would it be to scuff up the panels as part of normal prep for painting, personally, I would prefer a clean flat surface, with no texture as its easier to detect flaws......just my opinion...
#16
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Posted 02 June 2008 - 10:19 PM
^ I've seen it for myself, and the finish is great. You'd still speed file to find your lows/highs and get it straight, so I don't see an issue.
#17
WhiteA9XS
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Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:00 AM
i just had my xu1 shell soda blasted on the weekend and i,m tickled pink with the result , currently now putting primer on to stop any rust formation .
correct it doesnt remove rust or bog and tar , just paint
the best thing was no warped panels like i previously has with bead blasting
correct it doesnt remove rust or bog and tar , just paint
the best thing was no warped panels like i previously has with bead blasting
#18
_HUNTER SODABLAST_
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Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:08 PM
Hello
By looking at my name you probally figuered i own a sodablasting company (true)
We also do fine abrasive blasting (Fine garnet).
The soda we use is pure soda refined in australia. And my answers will reflect that.
I have read through this thred and a few things concern me.
Firstly some say soda causes rust. NOT Possible Pure soda can not cause rust it is alkaline and actually prevents rust.
Secondly soda gets stuck in the cracks NOT Possible Pure Soda is water soluble and washes away so if water can get into the space the soda will be dissolved.
Thirdly soda will not remove bog NOT True soda will remove bog i blasted a xy gt the other day that had a layer of bog all over the car.
Forthly soda will not remove rust This i have to agree with soda will remove the top of the rust but because of the properties of soda and the main reason to use it is that it will not etch into the steel it will not remove rust but.
This is where the fine abrasive is used to remove the rust.(although some people choose to have it left to better cut out affected areas or treat other areas with a rust killer converter.
Just a note plastic grit will not remove rust either.
For more information please take a look at
Http://www.huntersodablast.com.au
Be sure to add us to your favorites.
Any questions or wanting a quote please contact me.
Regards Craig
Hunter sodablast
PS please dont think i am having a go at anyone i would just like to get the truth out there.
squirralien
With the sand were they going to do all the roof,boot and bonnet Be Very Careful
By looking at my name you probally figuered i own a sodablasting company (true)
We also do fine abrasive blasting (Fine garnet).
The soda we use is pure soda refined in australia. And my answers will reflect that.
I have read through this thred and a few things concern me.
Firstly some say soda causes rust. NOT Possible Pure soda can not cause rust it is alkaline and actually prevents rust.
Secondly soda gets stuck in the cracks NOT Possible Pure Soda is water soluble and washes away so if water can get into the space the soda will be dissolved.
Thirdly soda will not remove bog NOT True soda will remove bog i blasted a xy gt the other day that had a layer of bog all over the car.
Forthly soda will not remove rust This i have to agree with soda will remove the top of the rust but because of the properties of soda and the main reason to use it is that it will not etch into the steel it will not remove rust but.
This is where the fine abrasive is used to remove the rust.(although some people choose to have it left to better cut out affected areas or treat other areas with a rust killer converter.
Just a note plastic grit will not remove rust either.
For more information please take a look at
Http://www.huntersodablast.com.au
Be sure to add us to your favorites.
Any questions or wanting a quote please contact me.
Regards Craig
Hunter sodablast
PS please dont think i am having a go at anyone i would just like to get the truth out there.
squirralien
With the sand were they going to do all the roof,boot and bonnet Be Very Careful
#19
rodomo
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#20
_squirralien_
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Posted 04 June 2008 - 01:36 AM
with that information I would possibly go with soda but the main reason I need it blasted is a layer of surface rust over the car and then someone has put an undercoat over the top of the surface rust, it is at the stage where it has probably just started to pit the metal with maybe about 50% of the surface rusted area, so I think the sand or the garnet blasting will be the way to go and the garnet blasting was the cheapest quote I got, but I am worried about the distortion factor.
HUNTERSODABLAST
they have all told me they don't do bonnets, boot lids and the centre area of the roof, so I guess I am stuck with carefully doing this with a grinding disk on a buff, the bonnet is just paint so I can strip that but the boot lid and roof centre will be my job, im just not patient enough to do the whole car like that. Also thank you for your info on soda blasting. what about the rumour that soda leaves a residue and often seaps out of joints after painting and causes a reaction with the paint.
Someone has cut a sun roof hole in my roof so I am considering repairing that, very slowly and carefully, I just don't want to pay the wreckers $80 for a small piece of the roof to fill the hole
HUNTERSODABLAST
they have all told me they don't do bonnets, boot lids and the centre area of the roof, so I guess I am stuck with carefully doing this with a grinding disk on a buff, the bonnet is just paint so I can strip that but the boot lid and roof centre will be my job, im just not patient enough to do the whole car like that. Also thank you for your info on soda blasting. what about the rumour that soda leaves a residue and often seaps out of joints after painting and causes a reaction with the paint.
Someone has cut a sun roof hole in my roof so I am considering repairing that, very slowly and carefully, I just don't want to pay the wreckers $80 for a small piece of the roof to fill the hole
#21
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 04 June 2008 - 09:54 AM
You could get the car soda blasted to remove the primer and then use POR15 Metal Ready to remove any light rust and prepare the panels for primer.
http://www.ppc.au.co..._metalready.htm
http://www.ppc.au.co..._metalready.htm
Edited by ls2lxhatch, 04 June 2008 - 09:56 AM.
#22
LS1LX
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Posted 04 June 2008 - 10:14 AM
Ah I see the soda doesnt cause rust, you wash the soda out with water.
So the water gets in all the gaps, ah no rust, the water just disolves too. Thought water on bare metal normally speed up the rust cycle? I must be from another school?
So the water gets in all the gaps, ah no rust, the water just disolves too. Thought water on bare metal normally speed up the rust cycle? I must be from another school?
#23
_squirralien_
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Posted 04 June 2008 - 12:16 PM
I was also confused by washing the soda out with water, and the soda sits where you can't get it so you also can't dry it out very easy,
I think just sludge it with fish oild or end rust or something similar, I suppose rinceing it with water then fish oil may be ok, Im not sure.
What do the proffessional car restorers do to get rid of medium surface rust, Ill call it medium as its not something you can remove with sand paper, you need something to the degree of a 36 grit disk on the buff carefully. aparently Minus paint with thier chemical treatments are very good but what chemical removes the rust that they dip the body in, why can't i do similar to that at home.
Its enough to drive someone crazy trying to decide which way to go
I think just sludge it with fish oild or end rust or something similar, I suppose rinceing it with water then fish oil may be ok, Im not sure.
What do the proffessional car restorers do to get rid of medium surface rust, Ill call it medium as its not something you can remove with sand paper, you need something to the degree of a 36 grit disk on the buff carefully. aparently Minus paint with thier chemical treatments are very good but what chemical removes the rust that they dip the body in, why can't i do similar to that at home.
Its enough to drive someone crazy trying to decide which way to go
#24
_P51_
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Posted 04 June 2008 - 02:21 PM
You can ask for, and get all the advise you need, but in the end it's up to you which way you go.....weigh it up and have a crack.....
#25
_HUNTER SODABLAST_
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Posted 04 June 2008 - 10:09 PM
Very true P51Ah I see the soda doesnt cause rust, you wash the soda out with water.
So the water gets in all the gaps, ah no rust, the water just disolves too. Thought water on bare metal normally speed up the rust cycle? I must be from another school?
if you are not happy with getting the soda out with compressed air it can be removed by washing it out with water
Due to the soda not breaking the surface tension of the steel and coating the panel it resists flash rusting
the water is removed with compressed air and any small residual amounts of water evapotates.
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