I've heard rumours that some U.S. Paint Manufacturers won't guarantee their products if they're applied over a soda blasted substrate.
I'm GUESSING that with the Soda being Alkaline like you say that Acid based Etch primers will have bonding issues. My thoughts would be that the steel that is treated would still need to be sanded down with something like 240grit and metal conditioned with a Phosphorus Acid based product before any primers/paint were to be applied.
Existing panel seams and panel joins on 30+yr old cars that we're all dealing with here are going to possibly have existing rust issues in there regardless of what method of paint removal is used in my opinion, unless your going to unpick a car body completely,treat and reweld it back together (highly unlikely) then no matter what you choose there is a risk of existing rust flaring up in those seams at a later stage.
I'm yet to experience a Soda Blasted substrate to work with so my opinion is pretty loosely based. Just trying to add to the discussion.
Media Blasting
Started by
_squirralien_
, May 27 2008 10:33 PM
45 replies to this topic
#27
_squirralien_
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Posted 05 June 2008 - 11:32 AM
All sounds good to me, it doesn't matter what you use there is the negative side to it even if it is only a different preperation method, I guess you just go for the method that you need and I will go for the Garnet blast as I do have a medium level of surface rust to remove, if it wasn't for that I think I might give the soda a go.
#28
_DrFegg_
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Posted 06 June 2008 - 09:00 PM
Had another chat with my body/paint guy today. He is adamant that he does not want me to use a soda blasting method. He explains that he cannot guarantee total removal of any soda residue in hard to get areas, even with pressure washing, not to mention getting rid of all moisture from a bare metal body. He is very happy with the plastic media/ sand blasting combination. I am not an expert in this area. He is, and is a specialist restorer of old, valuable vehicles, with a proven (and multiple trophy winning) track record. Anyway, please take this as another opinion, with no particular offence intended towards others.
#29
_Viper_
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Posted 06 June 2008 - 11:10 PM
Sounds like old guys scared of new technology...
#30
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 07 June 2008 - 01:04 PM
Back in 1972, when New York State engineers were looking for ways to clean the Statue of Liberty, they had many concerns involving issues of the environment, waste disposal, and protection of the statues surface itself. Any use of any abrasive material to clean the surface would have been very harmful to the soft copper plates, let alone the waste in the water surrounding the statue. Sodablast was invented because it would not only do the job while having a negligible impact on the waterways and harbour, but it was also non-abrasive.
#31
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Posted 07 June 2008 - 05:08 PM
LoL well I did mean new technology as in it has only JUST become redily availiable to the average joe... even now its still not all that well known.
#32
enderwigginau
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Posted 07 June 2008 - 11:27 PM
Any work that creates bare metal panels needs a prep treatment afterwards.
Using a molasses bath removes ALL rust but leaves paint. You need to hose this off. After, you have to wash all panels/parts with a prepwash to remove all the moisture and prevent the immediate formation of rust.
Then blow on a prime coat ASAP.
Soda media is exactly the same.
Any issues with non-bonding of primer or bubbling of paint are due to failure to properly prepare the surface.
Water is not the enemy, IF you continue to prep the panel correctly ready for prime.
Most "professionals" would never admit to cutting corners, so the sodablasting gets a bad name.
Grant..
Using a molasses bath removes ALL rust but leaves paint. You need to hose this off. After, you have to wash all panels/parts with a prepwash to remove all the moisture and prevent the immediate formation of rust.
Then blow on a prime coat ASAP.
Soda media is exactly the same.
Any issues with non-bonding of primer or bubbling of paint are due to failure to properly prepare the surface.
Water is not the enemy, IF you continue to prep the panel correctly ready for prime.
Most "professionals" would never admit to cutting corners, so the sodablasting gets a bad name.
Grant..
#33
_P51_
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Posted 08 June 2008 - 10:59 AM
Soda media is exactly the same.
Any issues with non-bonding of primer or bubbling of paint are due to failure to properly prepare the surface.
#34
_squirralien_
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Posted 08 June 2008 - 02:17 PM
Sounds good to me, I will have to go with the garnet blast to get rid of the surface rust but will do my best to get most of it out and will go over the whole thing with deoxidene and then etch and primer,, then my repairs
Edited by squirralien, 08 June 2008 - 02:18 PM.
#35
_P51_
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Posted 08 June 2008 - 03:40 PM
SW 2 Protective Oil is similar to Fish Oils, but without that fishy smell and will penetrate into difficult to access areas. Where applying paints like POR 15 Rust Preventive Paint or similar is hard or impossible, SW2 is the way to go. Ideal for the interior of vehicle doors, body panels, hollow sections of chassis, trapped recesses, etc. SW 2 Protective Oil forms a water resistant, penetrating thin film which dries to a satin finish, and will help prevent condensation, corrosion in these areas. SW 2 Protective Oil can also be used as a long term protective film on stored machinery, parts, castings and the like.Ah I see the soda doesnt cause rust, you wash the soda out with water.
So the water gets in all the gaps, ah no rust, the water just disolves too. Thought water on bare metal normally speed up the rust cycle? I must be from another school?
#36
enderwigginau
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Posted 08 June 2008 - 04:14 PM
Deoxidene is the way to go, and you can even mix your own up if needed.
It will move any water away, you can paint it on liberally and it won't leave a residue behind.
Grant..
It will move any water away, you can paint it on liberally and it won't leave a residue behind.
Grant..
#37
_squirralien_
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Posted 08 June 2008 - 06:08 PM
SW2 sounds great I wasn't looking forward to the terrible smell of fish oil, is it sprayed in the same as fish oil and where do you get that from, I suppose its good to do until its running out of everything, thats what I have done with fish oil before, flood everywhere internally after the paint is finished.
#38
_P51_
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Posted 08 June 2008 - 09:45 PM
I would use the SW2 if you are worried about water contamination in hard to reach places(body seams etc. etc.)after rinsing bare panels.......SW2 is a Permenant Painted Coatings product, Paint Supplies in Adelaide should carry it and all other POR products.... 
#39
_HUNTER SODABLAST_
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Posted 08 June 2008 - 10:10 PM
P51
Have you used this SW2 They contacted me the other day about it.
If id does what they say it does it will be great. (they seam to have alot of good stuff). I have some on the way to see what its like and ill run a few of my own tests on. But would like to here from anyone who has used it.
Please view Protective painted coatings SW2 post in paint and panel
Have you used this SW2 They contacted me the other day about it.
If id does what they say it does it will be great. (they seam to have alot of good stuff). I have some on the way to see what its like and ill run a few of my own tests on. But would like to here from anyone who has used it.
Please view Protective painted coatings SW2 post in paint and panel
#40
_lxclone_
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Posted 16 June 2008 - 04:46 PM
hi
if in adelaide ..
have a look at this site a complele car must be completely stripped up to
$2800.00 for paint removal and rust removal..
http://www.minuspaint.com.au/
if in adelaide ..
have a look at this site a complele car must be completely stripped up to
$2800.00 for paint removal and rust removal..
http://www.minuspaint.com.au/
#41
_squirralien_
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Posted 10 July 2008 - 08:32 PM
Minus paint is so expensive, I had my Torana media blasted with granet in Elizabeth South Australia at Trackblasting and it cost me $500 and I am quite happy with the outcome, very good job I thought not to agressive on the metal and they were able to do all the roof and no warping, now the fun can begin.
Thank you everyone for your input.
Now I am not sure should I close this thread or leave it open ?
Thank you everyone for your input.
Now I am not sure should I close this thread or leave it open ?
#42
enderwigginau
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Posted 10 July 2008 - 10:18 PM
Leave it, more info may come along.
Grant..
Grant..
#43
_HatchmanSS76_
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Posted 11 July 2008 - 11:07 PM
How much time have you spent so far trying to remove all the grit left behind that just seems to get in every where. Not having a crack just curious.I had my Torana media blasted with granet in Elizabeth South Australia at Trackblasting and it cost me $500 and I am quite happy with the outcome, very good job I thought not to agressive on the metal and they were able to do all the roof and no warping,
I had the Hatch done down at Wingfield last year than the car was trailered back to Blakeview and there was heaps of sand that had been shaken out so that was cleaned up. The next four hours was spent blowing down the car with compressed air and grit was still coming out. 8 months later while doing some rust repairs grit is still falling out of areas due to the vibrations, that stuff just gets in every where.
If costs were ressonable I'd go soda as first option as it's water soluble.
#44
_squirralien_
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Posted 11 July 2008 - 11:17 PM
The company that did the car went over it for a while getting out as much as they could before it was picked up, I also did blow a bit around before spraying the etch primer and not alot really blew around, well not like I was expecting anyway, apart from that not much, when I blow down in the areas that a vacuum won't go I don't get much flying around.
I am sure there will be an amount that will stay there but after I soak it with a fish oil type product it should be pretty safe from causing any future problems, Ill have an anti rust sludge haha I don't think there will be alot left when I finish trying to remove it.
I am sure there will be an amount that will stay there but after I soak it with a fish oil type product it should be pretty safe from causing any future problems, Ill have an anti rust sludge haha I don't think there will be alot left when I finish trying to remove it.
#45
_HatchmanSS76_
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Posted 16 July 2008 - 08:09 AM
We just tipped mine on it's side last night for better acess to repair some rusty spots and grit poured out from some locations 
#46
_squirralien_
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Posted 16 July 2008 - 08:38 AM
I am sure I will have some left, its enevidable really, but I will be fish oiling it of some type anyway so it shouldn't rust due to left over bits, I hope, but anyway I will get alot of good years out of it before it does rust out.
I will do my best to get out as much as I can and just hope that it is good enough not to get any coming out at painting time.
I will do my best to get out as much as I can and just hope that it is good enough not to get any coming out at painting time.
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