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Oil priming a 308

Started by _holdon_ , Jun 08 2008 11:52 PM

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23 replies to this topic

#1 _holdon_

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 11:52 PM

im trying to get oil pressure with my 308 before i put it in the car. I've been cranking it over with the starter and i have not noticed any oil come out of the rockers. the oil filter is full so i can assume the oil pump is working?

im getting sus on the seal that i forgot to put in between the oil pickup and block. (see my other post - http://www.gmh-toran...howtopic=28181). could this be the problem?

the engine has been sitting for about a year - so it is completly dry (lifters/bearings etc). is the starter motor cranking speed enough to circulate the oil properly?

i have tuned it over about 4 times for about 30secs at a time. i would have thought that id be seeing oil out the rockers by now?

any help appreciated!

thanks

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#2 FastEHHolden

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 01:16 AM

you need to fit a master guage to see if ou are getting pressure....I reckon you'll be cranking it over until the cows come home before you get oil out the top.

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#3 _holdon_

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 03:01 AM

i have a oil pressure sender. where should i screw it in? theres the right size hole on the top of the oil pump. - put it there? im used to the holden 6's where the oil pressure sender was away from the pump on the block. ill need a gauge tho to attach to this sender unit.........

how else can i check that this motor hasnt got a oil pressure problem without a master guage.

i have fixed my pickup problem so ill have another go in the morning and see if its any better

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#4 FastEHHolden

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 08:38 AM

A mechanical guage is best...a dash guage isn't very accurate.

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#5 GML-31

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 08:41 AM

have you packed the oil pump with vaseline??? you could be trying to get pressure for hours otherwise.

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#6 _Lostit_

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 09:05 AM

yes the little thing on top of oil pump is the sender get a master gauge ( eg mechanical one).

But firstly drop the pump off pack the gears with vasoline put it all back and crank it over if all correct yourll get oil pressure show up within seconds .

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#7 _torana_

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 11:21 AM

ill back the vaso method as well. Just looks a bit sus heading out to the shed with a big smile and a tub of vaso.

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#8 _monarodad_

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 06:22 PM

Holdon , A small trick that I have been told is to block the breather cap position , pcv position on the rocker covers & pressurise the sump through your dipstick tube with compressed air. This will assist the oil pump to pickup.
This was something a professsional engine builder told me when I had a similar problem.

good luck
Andrew

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#9 _Barman_

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 08:10 PM

Presurizing the sump works...but to much will turn seals inside out, safe way remove oil pump pack it with vasoline put it back on, fit a guage where the sender unit goes and remove all the spark plugs. Disconect the coil. and wind it over till you have positive oil pressure, remember you may need to charge your batt overnight to have enough amps for the job, still no pressure pack pump again and try again, Good luck
Baz

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#10 LS1LX

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 09:25 PM

I had to go to a chemist on a saturday afternoon the same day as the Mardigra here in Sydney and ask for 2 tubs of Vasoline. :cry:

Serious, I told the guy I was having trouble priming my new engine but he didnt buy it, gave me a bullshit look haha.

But the vaso is the only way you will get pressure on a 253/308, they are a nightmare to prime otherwise. Pack it with vaso and presto you will have psi.

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#11 _holdon_

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 09:30 PM

Thanks for all the responses!

I haven�t got a mechanical gauge but I should be able to put 12V on to the sender with a light bulb and it should light up when I get pressure - how much pressure I wont know but at least I know its working for when I start it up and check against the dash gauge......

ill pack the oil pump with some vaso and try that.

The compressed air is a good idea. Failing ^ ill try this too.

Thanks again for the input!

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#12 _v8slrtorana_

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 09:38 PM

The best way to do it :-
With a empty sump, PUMP (using a hand pump) oil from the drum into oil pump via the oil pressure sender.
This will fill your engine and see full oiled top end on a motor that has never fired

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#13 _brutass08_

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 10:19 PM

Yeh if ya going to do the vas trick , instead of pulling your pump of and packing the gears , a better and quicker way is to get a good handful of vas in a jar in sit it in another jar/pot of boiling water , this will turn the vas to a liquid which then can be poured directly into the sender unit hole , then give it a crank ( the engine that is ) anyway hope ya have some luck , cheers Brutass

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#14 Mort

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 06:25 PM

I had the same problem,asked the same question got the same answers :spoton:

the vas works, one other thing no one mentioned and for us simple folk, don't forget to fill the oilfilter before you vas the pump up.

Mort

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#15 _The Stig_

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 10:16 PM

I built up a 308 once out of bits and peices I scored from various people. Block had already been stripped so I just dropped it into the machine shop, got it bored, etc., bolted everything together and couldn't get oil pressure. Ended up pulling the gauge out of the sender unit hole and winding it over, it was pumping oil out the hole but still not pressurising. After a lot of thought we decided to pull the inlet manifold off and lo and behold there was a missing oil gallery plug. I never realised till that moment they had one there! We pulled off the timing cover as well and there were (I think) 2 others missing from there as well. The bloke I bought the block off had obviously knocked them out - and I didn't notice. Very red faced after that lol

Another thing I was told by a very experienced engine builder, while trying to diagnose the problem, was that the best way to prime the filter is to unscrew it a bit, wind the engine over till oil leaks out around the threads, then tighten it up. Not sure what his reasoning was, and I've never tried it, but thought I might just pass on the info.

BTW Vaso works, I've used it countless times (In oil pumps that is!), and pressurising the sump does work too, although I'd use that as a last resort. Too easy to damage a seal and create oil leaks IMHO.

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#16 _Lostit_

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 06:18 PM

Dont pressure the motor it doesnt take much to move gaskets.

Dont undo the oil filter and crank a little to make sure.

A little dirty hands and all done as i said before take the pump off( few minutes ) jam it with cold vas not boiled.

Oil filter really should take about 10 minutes to fill up properly when on the bench.Fill the filter up let it settle down, fill it to the top again let it settle down, as i said will take 10 minutes at least to do it properly .

The tricky part with holden v8 is the point where you underneath the car and rdy to put the filter back on... its like get in postion and as fast as you can wind the filter up before it leaks out.

Remeber 99% damage done is on startup to motors.. let alone brand new ones .
You really shouldnt be cranking a brand new motor over once the heads are on, every time you crank it the wipe a little grease/oil off important parts.I know it doesnt sound like much but I prefer my motors lasting a long time .

Cheers

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#17 micklx

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 12:25 AM

I've always used grease instead of vasoline.
What are the pros and cons of each ?
At least you don't have to go to the chemist to buy grease !

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#18 MRLXSS

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 08:24 AM

excuse my ignorance but, as soon you have oil pressure.. Do you rip out the Vasolene filled oil filter and fit an empty one? Or can you run the car for a while with the vasolene in the filter as it won't really damage the motor?

My mate had this problem with his 308, he got some Honey like Oil that he was going to use... But eventually got pressure by just turning it over and over and over! LOL

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#19 _gtr2600S_

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 09:08 AM

im trying to get oil pressure with my 308 before i put it in the car. I've been cranking it over with the starter and i have not noticed any oil come out of the rockers. the oil filter is full so i can assume the oil pump is working?

im getting sus on the seal that i forgot to put in between the oil pickup and block. (see my other post - http://www.gmh-toran...howtopic=28181). could this be the problem?

the engine has been sitting for about a year - so it is completly dry (lifters/bearings etc). is the starter motor cranking speed enough to circulate the oil properly?

i have tuned it over about 4 times for about 30secs at a time. i would have thought that id be seeing oil out the rockers by now?

any help appreciated!

thanks

These are all interesting threads. I've never used the vas/grease method as most pump manufacturers don't recommend it - apparently the added load on the drive has lead to shears in the past (6 cyl engines anyway) - then you're in the poo. According to your thread, the filter is full of oil so assuming that the cranking has filled the filter, then you shouldn't have any problems or the need to pack the pump - it's already pumping! Once the filter is completely full, then there the oil will find it's way to the bearings and lifters etc. in a matter of seconds. As far as pumping it to the top, generally if the motor was running, it still takes a min or so to get it up to the rockers, so if you're cranking over by hand, you'll be there for years trying to get oil up there.
As far as the oil pick up seal - it'll be worth your while to remove the sump, pump etc and fit it. You'll be sucking air in there.

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#20 TerrA LX

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 02:14 PM

Have only ever used Vasoline and have only ever built holden V8's so don't know about problems with the 6cyl but never had problems with the V8.
Always leave the vaso in till the first 500 to 1000Km change but have never seen it come out :tease:

I think grease may be a bit course compared to vasoline.

As for cranking forever I think the damage is done, any bearing lube you have put in there would have vanished.

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#21 _Lostit_

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 05:00 PM

excuse my ignorance but, as soon you have oil pressure.. Do you rip out the Vasolene filled oil filter and fit an empty one? Or can you run the car for a while with the vasolene in the filter as it won't really damage the motor?

My mate had this problem with his 308, he got some Honey like Oil that he was going to use... But eventually got pressure by just turning it over and over and over! LOL

hehe no mate packing the oil pump itself not the oil filter heheh.