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intake manifold queries

Started by _LC2250_ , Feb 20 2006 02:58 PM

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11 replies to this topic

#1 _LC2250_

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 02:58 PM

very simple question

I have a replacement manifold (as I was using the old one from my 138 to run my 202 on). The new manifold however does not have the holes for the water pipes to go into.

What is the purpose of the water running thorugh the manifold? is it to just warm it up a bit? or cool it down ... is it a problem if I was to just forgo this and not have water going into the manifold and just block off the pipes that are there already?

EDIT: Oh and another thing, I plan to use the carby that came with this manifold as my old one is a bit dodgey. The stromberg on this newer manifold is slightly different and has a series of labelled pipes on it ... obviously dist. is for the vacum in the distributor, but what are 'CAN.' and 'ERG.' for?

On that note, there are also two other extra unlabelled piping holes on it (one larger than the other).

Cheers
-Al

Edited by LC2250, 20 February 2006 - 03:03 PM.

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#2 FastEHHolden

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 07:48 PM

your new carby is off somethjing like a UC or VB commodore ect..can for canister,

erg or egr?

egr for exhaust gas recirculation (did VB have that..have to check)

The purpose of the water running thru it was to heat the base of the carby to vapourise the fuel.

can you post a pic of the setup..it will help a bit.

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#3 rodomo

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 08:08 PM

VB did have EGR.
RACV MAN

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#4 _Hotrodder_

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 10:11 PM

The purpose of the water running thru it was to heat the base of the carby to vapourise the fuel.

Holden sixes were known for freezing the base of the carb, the hot water running through the manifold stopped the ice building up. happened to me on several occasions before I changed the manifold on the LC 20 years ago. First time it happened the best I could do was 50mph on the highway and getting worse, pulled up, engine stalled, lifted bonnet and the carb and manifold was white, Heat rising from the exhaust soon melted it so I could continue.
Only a problem in colder areas.

It did also vaporise the fuel too, but performance suffered as a result.

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#5 _LC2250_

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 12:22 PM

I'll try and put some pictures in using that photobucket thing ... lets hope this works

Posted Image

so what is this thing for?

Posted Image

from top to bottom those holes are labelled "can, dist, EGR" and I assume that screw is for petrol mixture and turning it in restricts it and out allows more petrol ...

Posted Image

I'm unsure what the hole to the left of the bolt holding the carby to the manifold is for or the larger one up near the choke butterfly

Posted Image

I have not got the foggiets idea how that thing allows for idle to be adjusted ... just so I could test the carby I just pulled the idle adjust screw out and jammed my torsion rod in that space but still dind't allow me to adjust the idle any more than just holding my foot slightly on the accelerator.

So yeah ... I have since put the old manifold back on until I can figure out how to get this working properly.

oh yeah, and it looks as though it has some area underneath to accomodate some form of water body to heat the manifold but it's been taken off and is all blacked up as though it hasn't been used on the previous car ... my engine runs hot anyhow so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

As this carby is from a newer car is it going to run better? or more restrictively because of all the pollution stuff that could be on it?

Thanks all heaps for your input and help.

Cheers
-Al

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#6 enderwigginau

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 01:58 PM

The big round thingamebob on the side of the manifold is the EGR (even LX had em).
The area on the base mates up to the exhaust manifold, which has a big butterfly that opens when cold, allowing hot exhaust to heat the manifold, then closes when the manifold is hot enough.
Looks like an ADR27A LX manifold. (Apart from that fitting running out the side of it.)

The vacuum takeoff at the front runner of the manifold (first pic), looks like the car it came off had air con.

Grant..

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#7 _Jewboy_

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 09:50 PM

The Screw with the spring around it is your fast idle cam (accelerator connects to the lever) it controls your idle speed. Mixture screw is the other one with the spring on it (at base of carb)just in the rear of the last pic picture this one adjusts fuel mix.

Edited by Jewboy, 21 February 2006 - 09:51 PM.

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#8 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 10:12 PM

The purpose of the water flow in the manifold is as others have stated to act as a heat supply to vaporise the fuel, energy is needed for a phase change. Two things could happen, ice from moisture in the air could build up restricting the contact area with the fuel and the fuel itself being very cold wouldnt vaporise well.
It possibly does act as a coolant in summer, removing heat from the inlet manifold which can get hotter than the rest of the engine due to being in close proximity to the exhaust manifold.

Edited by devilsadvocate, 21 February 2006 - 10:13 PM.

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#9 rodomo

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 11:23 PM

I'm unsure what the hole to the left of the bolt holding the carby to the manifold is for or the larger one up near the choke butterfly.

The hole to the left of the bolt holding the carby to the manifold is the vacuum feed for the heat riser duct flap in the snout on the airclener.

The larger one up near the choke butterfly goes to the charcoal canister, it takes the fumes from the bowl and absorbs them into the charcoal.

RACV MAN

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#10 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 05:40 AM

is it a problem if I was to just forgo this and not have water going into the manifold and just block off the pipes that are there already?

Sorry, didnt address this question.
If you replace the water heated manifold with a emission control combined inlet and exhaust it doesnt obviously require the water heater(as they work fine), probably from the exhaust manifold being in direct contact with the inlet manifold at the base of the carb.
You could establish whether there is any water cooling effect on the manifold during the heat of summer by using a hose clamp on one of the hoses and measuring the temp at the base of the carby to see whether it goes up or down or indeed if icing can happen when conditions are really hot.

Its got me interested know, I have a water cooled manifold, which is disconnected as I run lpg, the hoses were needed to go to the convertor.
Might even see what temps we have around the base of the carb/mixer on a hot day myself.
Depending on whether you have a heater and or a tap in the heater, its best to run a simple loop bypass hose, rather than block off the existing hose outlets.

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#11 _LC2250_

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Posted 23 February 2006 - 01:08 PM

This is definitely starting to make a whole lot more sense. That would also explain a lot of carbon build up on the bottom of the manifold I imagine. I think I'll give it time to see if the symptoms of not having water running through come apparent.

In regards to the idle and such, my question still stands about mating up my old torsion rod with the new one and being able to still set the idle better than just resting my foot on the accelerator all the time.

I'm also going to assume that as I do not have a lot of the pollution gear that was intended to go on cars this carb was on it will be ok to just leave those extra holes alone. Or do people think that may create problems with back flow and such as they will be able to flow completely freely to the open air.

At present I have done as you have said devilsadvocate by running a hose loop between the water source instead of blocking the two hoses with clamps.

The idle issue still remains a bit of a problem ... I like this carb, it seems to be in better condition than my old one but will I have to go and get a torsion rod and all the accelerator linkage stuff off the car it's from or is there an easier way?

Thank you all for your help and input

Cheers
-Al

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#12 rodomo

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Posted 23 February 2006 - 01:21 PM

The carb and manifold look to be VB comm and UC and maybe LX or even LH torana although I am not familiar with the accel linkages on earlier toranas. That carb. should have an idle solenoid fitted as it has the flat plate on the lever to accomodate same. It also obviously had a cable connection. You might be able to unbolt the throttle lever off the side of the butterfly and fit the one off your torsion bar arrangement but I can't guarantee it will work.

RACV MAN