Hey guys, I just dropped my 350 chev in my LX and noticed the starter motor was touching up against the steering coupling. I was just wondering if I need to install a mini starter motor or is it just adjustment I need to make? Thanks.
350 Chev Starter Motor Clearance
Started by
_Chowzilla_
, Feb 21 2006 02:19 PM
17 replies to this topic
#2
LXCHEV
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Posted 21 February 2006 - 03:41 PM
Hi,
I would highly recommend the use of a mini starter.
Do you have extractors yet? What are your plans to do with the exhaust? Everyone on here who has done this conversion will tell you the same thing - clearance is TIGHT when it comes to the exhaust! So the more room you can gain by using a smaller starter motor the better.
I would highly recommend the use of a mini starter.
Do you have extractors yet? What are your plans to do with the exhaust? Everyone on here who has done this conversion will tell you the same thing - clearance is TIGHT when it comes to the exhaust! So the more room you can gain by using a smaller starter motor the better.
#3
_Chowzilla_
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Posted 21 February 2006 - 04:27 PM
Yeah I already have extractors which i was looking at today. I have a very good feeling I should have put it on the engine first, but not really too sure.
I'm at the stage where I'm just going to bring the extractors to the exhaust shop, but if I get the effort to pull out the engine again I'll do it myself.
Just to tell you a little about fitting the engine, since I have a high energy sump I couldn't slide the engine in normally. I actually had to drop the front end crossmember to get it in which was a big pain in the ass. Hopefully things will get easier when I get the new starter motor in, but looking at the turbo 400 my hands are already starting to hurt thinking about connecting it up.
I have happy (well not so happy) snaps of the whole build which will be posted up once everything is done and the car is running.
I'm at the stage where I'm just going to bring the extractors to the exhaust shop, but if I get the effort to pull out the engine again I'll do it myself.
Just to tell you a little about fitting the engine, since I have a high energy sump I couldn't slide the engine in normally. I actually had to drop the front end crossmember to get it in which was a big pain in the ass. Hopefully things will get easier when I get the new starter motor in, but looking at the turbo 400 my hands are already starting to hurt thinking about connecting it up.
I have happy (well not so happy) snaps of the whole build which will be posted up once everything is done and the car is running.
#4
_Chowzilla_
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Posted 21 February 2006 - 04:46 PM
Here's a picture of the starter motor touching the coupling
http://img155.images.../img00754hs.jpg
Picture of the engine stuck due to the sump.
http://img95.imagesh.../img00614me.jpg
BTW whats the best way to get the extractor in?
http://img155.images.../img00754hs.jpg
Picture of the engine stuck due to the sump.
http://img95.imagesh.../img00614me.jpg
BTW whats the best way to get the extractor in?
#5
_SSHatch_
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Posted 21 February 2006 - 08:11 PM
You actually need to run two of the universal joints as opposed to the coupling you have there. Gives that little bit extra clearance.
The engine is best lowered in with the use of one of those you beaut little "leveler" things that has a threaded bar in top that allows you to adjust the angle of the engine as you lower it in. They need to go straight down in into place, not much room for error there.
And yes you need the extractors sitting in place before you lower the engine in the bay. As it gets further into position its a case of lifting the extractors up to meet the head at the same time as lowering the engine into place. They are impossible to get in otherwise. Same as extractors on a 308, engine has to be nearly out to get em in place while lowering the engine again.
I have a heap of pics from when I put mine back in after blowing it up and rebuilding it.
Will see what I can find and post up for you to see what I am talking about!!
Just hope that you dont need to get the starter back out in a hurry. Mine broke the circlip a couple of weeks ago and we had to pull the gearbox out, bellhousing clutch pressure plate and flywheel off to get access to the starter to get it out and replace a 20c circlip!!
The engine is best lowered in with the use of one of those you beaut little "leveler" things that has a threaded bar in top that allows you to adjust the angle of the engine as you lower it in. They need to go straight down in into place, not much room for error there.
And yes you need the extractors sitting in place before you lower the engine in the bay. As it gets further into position its a case of lifting the extractors up to meet the head at the same time as lowering the engine into place. They are impossible to get in otherwise. Same as extractors on a 308, engine has to be nearly out to get em in place while lowering the engine again.
I have a heap of pics from when I put mine back in after blowing it up and rebuilding it.
Will see what I can find and post up for you to see what I am talking about!!
Just hope that you dont need to get the starter back out in a hurry. Mine broke the circlip a couple of weeks ago and we had to pull the gearbox out, bellhousing clutch pressure plate and flywheel off to get access to the starter to get it out and replace a 20c circlip!!
#6
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Posted 21 February 2006 - 10:25 PM
Haha I feel your pain SSHatch! What a pain just for such a tiny part!!!
Now, I would agree - with most decent extractors it's a case of putting them in first, and then lowering the engine into place. As it's going in, a bit of jiggling etc is required to line them up without crushing anything.
However - it depends on the extractors. My first set were small Tri-Y's from Castle Auto. I have trimmed back the lips on the chassis rails in my engine bay, and by doing this I was actually able to get the extractors in with the engine in place (but jacking up each side in term to squeeze them in, still very tight). But without lipping those rails back, only way would be as described above. Alternatively, drop the K-frame out, some people prefer that method. If your extractors are one-piece, your next battle will be getting the bloody starter motor in... (it's usually easier to fit the pipes without the starter bolted on)...
My new custom extractors avoid all these issues - they were built with flanges. It's now an effortless 15 minute job to completely remove or fit them to the car with the engine and everything else in place. Provides full access to the starter motor too! I love it.
I previously had some 4-into-1's, these were one-piece, except for the drivers side which had a special removable section (flanged), which allowed access to the starter. Saved me pulling the engine out a couple of times!
By the way - I'm surprised to hear you're having trouble lowering the engine down just because of the High Energy sump. I'm also running a H.E. sump, and haven't had any drama's at all. I assume nothing else is bolted up that is getting in the way?
Also - some people do remove the coupling and opt to run two uni joints, but it all just depends on your extractors. I'm still using a coupling and have heaps of clearance.
Such a fun exercise isn't it!
Cheers.
Now, I would agree - with most decent extractors it's a case of putting them in first, and then lowering the engine into place. As it's going in, a bit of jiggling etc is required to line them up without crushing anything.
However - it depends on the extractors. My first set were small Tri-Y's from Castle Auto. I have trimmed back the lips on the chassis rails in my engine bay, and by doing this I was actually able to get the extractors in with the engine in place (but jacking up each side in term to squeeze them in, still very tight). But without lipping those rails back, only way would be as described above. Alternatively, drop the K-frame out, some people prefer that method. If your extractors are one-piece, your next battle will be getting the bloody starter motor in... (it's usually easier to fit the pipes without the starter bolted on)...
My new custom extractors avoid all these issues - they were built with flanges. It's now an effortless 15 minute job to completely remove or fit them to the car with the engine and everything else in place. Provides full access to the starter motor too! I love it.
I previously had some 4-into-1's, these were one-piece, except for the drivers side which had a special removable section (flanged), which allowed access to the starter. Saved me pulling the engine out a couple of times!
By the way - I'm surprised to hear you're having trouble lowering the engine down just because of the High Energy sump. I'm also running a H.E. sump, and haven't had any drama's at all. I assume nothing else is bolted up that is getting in the way?
Also - some people do remove the coupling and opt to run two uni joints, but it all just depends on your extractors. I'm still using a coupling and have heaps of clearance.
Such a fun exercise isn't it!
Cheers.
#7
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Posted 22 February 2006 - 02:02 AM
Thanks for the info. I think I'll pull the engine out again in the next few days and try again. Best to do it properly so it won't bite me in the ass later.
#8
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Posted 22 February 2006 - 02:19 AM
Yeah I was pretty surprised that the engine didn't go straight in. I was hoping it was as easy as dropping a 308, but damn it was a bastard job. I think one of the reason the engine was so hard to get in was the size on the turbo 400. Its such a tight fit in the tunnel and kept on knocking into everything, but yeah lower the front crossmember was easier than trying to constantly adjust the crane to get the engine in.
As for the steering linkage I might get the new starter motor and try and retain the coupling, but if it still bothers me I might use two unis.
I like the idea of adding flanges to the extractors for easy removal, where and how much did it cost you to get them made up? For now I'll be doing what SSHatch suggested it seems like the least hassel approach.
I'll post up pictures tomorrow of my current Tri-Y extractors to see if anyone has similar ones to mine and what kind of problem I'll be facing.
As for the steering linkage I might get the new starter motor and try and retain the coupling, but if it still bothers me I might use two unis.
I like the idea of adding flanges to the extractors for easy removal, where and how much did it cost you to get them made up? For now I'll be doing what SSHatch suggested it seems like the least hassel approach.
I'll post up pictures tomorrow of my current Tri-Y extractors to see if anyone has similar ones to mine and what kind of problem I'll be facing.
#9
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Posted 22 February 2006 - 08:15 PM
Well now I see where your problems are coming from!!Yeah I was pretty surprised that the engine didn't go straight in. I was hoping it was as easy as dropping a 308, but damn it was a bastard job. I think one of the reason the engine was so hard to get in was the size on the turbo 400. Its such a tight fit in the tunnel and kept on knocking into everything, but yeah lower the front crossmember was easier than trying to constantly adjust the crane to get the engine in.
A 308 or a Chev with a proper High Energy Sump has to be lifted straight up and out and lowered straight down in. Wont happen with the gearbox or even the bellhousing bolted on.
Mine went in minus flywheel, clutch and pressure plate just to make sure it fitted. It was still a tight fit even then!!
#10
LS1LX
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Posted 22 February 2006 - 10:08 PM
you think you guys have it bad, try my ls1 its about as bad as getting a big block in there, I think a HEMI would of been easier.
#11
FastEHHolden
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Posted 23 February 2006 - 07:47 AM
is the motor wider than the chassis rails? I had a problem fitting a HE sumped 179 block in my opel fronted UC...I ended up dropping the front end out, fitting motor and box, wheeling it back under and lowering the car onto it.....Is that an option for you guys?
The same car came with a 350 in it when I got it...it was a pain in the ass to get the chev out due to extractors being welded in...I had to cut them out with a sabre saw (electric hacksaw)
The same car came with a 350 in it when I got it...it was a pain in the ass to get the chev out due to extractors being welded in...I had to cut them out with a sabre saw (electric hacksaw)
#12
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Posted 23 February 2006 - 01:14 PM
When I had my SBC in the LX, I removed the engine a fair few times. I found that it was easier to split the gearbox and engine when fitting as the sump fouls on the x member.
#13
_Chowzilla_
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Posted 24 February 2006 - 09:00 PM
Yep thats teh way I'll go about it from now on.When I had my SBC in the LX, I removed the engine a fair few times. I found that it was easier to split the gearbox and engine when fitting as the sump fouls on the x member.
#14
_chief_
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Posted 24 February 2006 - 10:41 PM
SS Hatch, I noticed you talked about a 'little leveler' system for pulling out engines. I gather the hoist chain fits to this some how, but I'm not quite sure how the system works. Have any photos?
I also have had issues dropping my chev back in with the front corners of the sump hitting the the front cross member when dropping it in with the box on. It could be the sump because it looks like a cheeper version, not a High Energy item.
The other issue I have is I dont have accesorie holes in my head which means finding a good chain mount very difficult. I will be making some custom chain mounts or get one of these little leveler systems before removing the engine again.
I also have had issues dropping my chev back in with the front corners of the sump hitting the the front cross member when dropping it in with the box on. It could be the sump because it looks like a cheeper version, not a High Energy item.
The other issue I have is I dont have accesorie holes in my head which means finding a good chain mount very difficult. I will be making some custom chain mounts or get one of these little leveler systems before removing the engine again.
#15
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Posted 25 February 2006 - 03:23 AM
This is what I used when doing mine.
You turn the handle or use a socket on the one I have and the bar winds forward and bback changing the angle of the engine.
Just remove the front and rear manifold bolts and use those. I had to shape the corners of the lifting tags as the fouled slightly, just meant rounding the corners a bit.
I would always suggest to do the engine first, then climb under, put the flywheel etc on and then fit the gearbox. Not all together. To big a job, to easy to get stuck and to easy to damage stuff. Especially fresh paintwork.
You turn the handle or use a socket on the one I have and the bar winds forward and bback changing the angle of the engine.
Just remove the front and rear manifold bolts and use those. I had to shape the corners of the lifting tags as the fouled slightly, just meant rounding the corners a bit.
I would always suggest to do the engine first, then climb under, put the flywheel etc on and then fit the gearbox. Not all together. To big a job, to easy to get stuck and to easy to damage stuff. Especially fresh paintwork.
#16
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Posted 25 February 2006 - 07:20 AM
Thanks for the pics SS Hatch it all makes sense now. Any idea where to pick one up? I may try doing it without the box connected next time.
Edited by chief, 25 February 2006 - 07:21 AM.
#17
_Chowzilla_
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Posted 25 February 2006 - 05:15 PM
Just a quick question, I'm in the process of getting a new starter motor and I'm not sure about the bolt pattern? how can I tell if it's inline or offset once I take off the original? Just making sure incase I buy the wrong one.
#18
_SSHatch_
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Posted 26 February 2006 - 05:34 PM
Only thing that I can sugest there is to take yours with you and let them figure it out!!
Sorry but I wouldnt have a clue how to tell.
As for the load leveller thing, try Bursons, Repco etc.
Just the usual Automotive suppliers.
Sorry but I wouldnt have a clue how to tell.
As for the load leveller thing, try Bursons, Repco etc.
Just the usual Automotive suppliers.
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