howdy howdy, i plan on running nitrous on my 202 on the fair occasion, probablyl atleast once a month. i've purchased a endelbrock wet fogger setup, havn't got it yet but it shouldent be to far away, and whlist the 202 is in the bare block stage i was wondering what needs to be done??
i already have moderate strenghening of the bottom end, acl race series pisonts, arp rod bolts, blue rods, blue crank, all balanced, ect.
i have head of running a couple of extra thou?? if so how many? and also i have heard of titanium rings being the hot setup???
also the fuel system, i'll be running 3/8" lines for the carbs (su's) and i'll feed the nos from the origional 5/16th line, will this be arright?? i ws thinking about running a swirl pot with a small pump feeding it, and another small pump feeding the nitrous line...say holley reds maybie???
anything else i need to know?? the motor will be tuned on an engine dyno before it goes in the car.
cheers, any advice is good advice.
building motor for nitrous
Started by
_Bomber Watson_
, Feb 27 2006 10:14 PM
25 replies to this topic
#2
lakeside
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Posted 27 February 2006 - 10:58 PM
Put dowels in between the flywheel and crank with 7/16 f/wheel bolts, pin the pressure plate to the flywheel. They come loose, and wreck things.
#3
LXCHEV
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Posted 27 February 2006 - 11:44 PM
What sort of pistons are those ACL's? I would want to have forged pistons, especially for freguent use. Also head studs would be a good idea to hold your head on real nice! All depends how much NAWZ you actually intend to run.
Also, I understand you need to retard the timing a bit when running it too. You could go all out and but a fancy ignition system that has this ability (flick a switch from your dash and bam, nitrous curve ready to go, easy as)....
Also, I understand you need to retard the timing a bit when running it too. You could go all out and but a fancy ignition system that has this ability (flick a switch from your dash and bam, nitrous curve ready to go, easy as)....
#4
_kaz from adelaide_
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Posted 28 February 2006 - 10:29 AM
r we brave enough to give bomer any more build plans, go the big bang. ha ha ha
#5
LXdamo
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Posted 28 February 2006 - 11:57 AM
maybe you could inject sparklers.......
Naa i heard you gotta use less ignition timing
DAmo
Naa i heard you gotta use less ignition timing
DAmo
#6
_QIKSLR_
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Posted 28 February 2006 - 02:20 PM
I'm building my 308-338 for nitrous. So I've done a bit of research.
I'm gonna go the MSD Digital 6 ignition. It's got a retard circuit so you can wire it up so that when you hit the nitrous it retards the timing while your injecting it then puts it back. That way you don't lose performance from having to reduce your static timing. It's also got a soft touch rev limiter which is the type you need for nitrous, not the type that keeps cutting off the first cylinder(s) only.
If your gonna run a decent shot which I assume your are if your going a wet shot, you want forged pistons and you want a nitrous spec cam, which I think is the same as a blower cam. These have a longer duration which is what you want for nitrous.
Also look at a few safely options. I'm still undecided on what to do. A few things in mind are a low fuel pressure cut-off to avoid injecting nitrous when its lean, the old switch on the throttle so you can only inject when your flat to the boards.
I'm gonna go the MSD Digital 6 ignition. It's got a retard circuit so you can wire it up so that when you hit the nitrous it retards the timing while your injecting it then puts it back. That way you don't lose performance from having to reduce your static timing. It's also got a soft touch rev limiter which is the type you need for nitrous, not the type that keeps cutting off the first cylinder(s) only.
If your gonna run a decent shot which I assume your are if your going a wet shot, you want forged pistons and you want a nitrous spec cam, which I think is the same as a blower cam. These have a longer duration which is what you want for nitrous.
Also look at a few safely options. I'm still undecided on what to do. A few things in mind are a low fuel pressure cut-off to avoid injecting nitrous when its lean, the old switch on the throttle so you can only inject when your flat to the boards.
#8
_Torana482HP_
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Posted 28 February 2006 - 04:54 PM
I was gonna suggest a digital 6 as well as the forged pistons.
but as i read on another post your waiting to blow the engine anyway to make way for a 253 so i wouldnt worry about the pistons too much
but as i read on another post your waiting to blow the engine anyway to make way for a 253 so i wouldnt worry about the pistons too much
#9
Struggler
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Posted 28 February 2006 - 07:07 PM
i have head of running a couple of extra thou?? if so how many?
What are you referring to here ?
i have heard of titanium rings being the hot setup???
I have never heard of titanium rings...........
The best advice I can give you is to find someone who runs a Holden 6 on N2O SUCCESSFULLY and become their friend, get all your advice from one source, and don't be too greedy.
#10
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 28 February 2006 - 08:49 PM
i mean extra thou on the piston to bore clearance.....sorry bout being vague.
and titanium rings are something i was told about, i have never head of htem eather but i thought i might ask.
yes i do want to build an 8 for it but not to damb soon. six owes me a lot of gold and it's still in bits. the pistons i have atm are hypers, real snazzy lookin pistons though. but yeah, recon they will melt??
the head studs i will do, thats no dramas.
nos spec cam, i'll look into it.
i'll probably only be looking at 100-150hp shot, nothing to wild really.
sparkler injection....i nearly pissed myself at that one.
and titanium rings are something i was told about, i have never head of htem eather but i thought i might ask.
yes i do want to build an 8 for it but not to damb soon. six owes me a lot of gold and it's still in bits. the pistons i have atm are hypers, real snazzy lookin pistons though. but yeah, recon they will melt??
the head studs i will do, thats no dramas.
nos spec cam, i'll look into it.
i'll probably only be looking at 100-150hp shot, nothing to wild really.
sparkler injection....i nearly pissed myself at that one.
#11
_draglc_
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Posted 28 February 2006 - 09:13 PM
150 shot might be a little big, start small and work ur way up.
my 202 is built for nitrous. 202 + 40thou, flat top pistons, blue rods, nitrous cam .238 & .248 @ .50, 1.6 inlet & 1.5 outlet ratio roller rockers (to allow for the shorter duration on the inlet for the nos), 186 YT head big valves etc, straight cut gears, triple 1.75 HIF SU's with 3 foggers. approx 100 shot over the 3 runners.
mine arent forged, but if its set up properly it shouldnt be a problem. wont be running nos all the time anyway. i do want to get the msd 6A+ (digital) as it will make retarding the timing so much easier.
A1
my 202 is built for nitrous. 202 + 40thou, flat top pistons, blue rods, nitrous cam .238 & .248 @ .50, 1.6 inlet & 1.5 outlet ratio roller rockers (to allow for the shorter duration on the inlet for the nos), 186 YT head big valves etc, straight cut gears, triple 1.75 HIF SU's with 3 foggers. approx 100 shot over the 3 runners.
mine arent forged, but if its set up properly it shouldnt be a problem. wont be running nos all the time anyway. i do want to get the msd 6A+ (digital) as it will make retarding the timing so much easier.
A1
#12
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 28 February 2006 - 09:18 PM
ok, that sounds close to what i'm building. i'm 10 thou smaller though. i'll also be running six foggers more than likley, just cause thats how many i'm getting. that or i'll only run three, not sure yet. i was thinking 150 might be a bit high, 100 will probalby do me. already have a msd 6al, and it won't be to much of a hassle to bolt the ign back a tad when i hook up the giggle gass.
so yeah, atm it sounds like i just keep going the way i was, look at a diferent cam and see where it goes...
cheers and more info welcome.
so yeah, atm it sounds like i just keep going the way i was, look at a diferent cam and see where it goes...
cheers and more info welcome.
#13
_Loki_
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Posted 01 March 2006 - 03:51 PM
I was told by someone they were consistently running 100hp shots of nitrous through their completely stock 308/trimatic/diff... I mentioned doing so was a time-bomb waiting to demolish that entire driveline, his argument was that 100 shots weren't very much and his 'mate' after 300+ hits on stock driveline with 100 shots had not destroyed anything yet.
I can't imagine a stock 308 surviving this kind of punishment, was I not right in saying that?
Something that, as far as I'm aware, in QLD, you cannot have the lines for Nitrous even installed in your car whilst on the street, even if you don't have a bottle in the car let alone connected.
Hefty fine if caught i believe.
I can't imagine a stock 308 surviving this kind of punishment, was I not right in saying that?
Something that, as far as I'm aware, in QLD, you cannot have the lines for Nitrous even installed in your car whilst on the street, even if you don't have a bottle in the car let alone connected.
Hefty fine if caught i believe.
#14
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 01 March 2006 - 07:04 PM
lines will be hidden, bottle and foggers will be removeable.
and i have been told that you can add up to half of your motors hp output safley??? if this was true 100 on a 308 would be ok i suppose...
and i have been told that you can add up to half of your motors hp output safley??? if this was true 100 on a 308 would be ok i suppose...
#15
_82911_
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Posted 01 March 2006 - 11:45 PM
Boi...
Strongly suggest you buy "Nitrous oxide injection" a book by David Vizard.
Whilst it is not current tech, it will set you straight with some of the more popular N2O myths that are around!!!
Untill then... do nothing... you will more than likely blow yourself up.............
again!!!
Cheers Greg..
Strongly suggest you buy "Nitrous oxide injection" a book by David Vizard.
Whilst it is not current tech, it will set you straight with some of the more popular N2O myths that are around!!!
Untill then... do nothing... you will more than likely blow yourself up.............
again!!!
Cheers Greg..
#16
_[BOTTLEDUP]_
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 02:04 AM
I agree with Greg, the David Vizard book is excellent, as is one available from Allstate Speed and Custom or VPW (I forget the name). Read and re-read these!
Then and only then once you have an understanding of exactly how a nitrous system works, and how critical things like bottle pressure, fuel pressure, solenoid location plumbing etc are would I suggest you undertake it.
Anyone who thinks you can just bang a kit on there and away you go is a fool.
Generally speaking the rule of thumb is approx 50% of you N/A power can be added in nitrous, any more than this and you enter the danger area, best left to the experts in the field. A nitrous backfire will quickly ruin your day.
Then and only then once you have an understanding of exactly how a nitrous system works, and how critical things like bottle pressure, fuel pressure, solenoid location plumbing etc are would I suggest you undertake it.
Anyone who thinks you can just bang a kit on there and away you go is a fool.
Generally speaking the rule of thumb is approx 50% of you N/A power can be added in nitrous, any more than this and you enter the danger area, best left to the experts in the field. A nitrous backfire will quickly ruin your day.
#17
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 06:12 PM
book will be on order shortly.
and i won't be bgucking with it to shortly, gotta build the motor first...
might stick it on the wipper snipper though for something to do
and i won't be bgucking with it to shortly, gotta build the motor first...
might stick it on the wipper snipper though for something to do
#18
Struggler
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Posted 03 March 2006 - 08:42 AM
FWIW the Vizard book is no longer in production, but some second hand ones are available here... http://www.amazon.co...5Fencoding=UTF8
Also another book I have is this one.... http://www.amazon.co...5Fencoding=UTF8
and its not bad either. Remember those prices are $US but it still works out cheaper than buying locally.
I seem to remember Greg (82911) running a fair whack of N2O in days gone by.... as did I, but neither on a Red 6. A local here runs high tens in an HB with a fairly standard 202 and 350 holley with a plate. He has had a few melt downs over the years though !
Also another book I have is this one.... http://www.amazon.co...5Fencoding=UTF8
and its not bad either. Remember those prices are $US but it still works out cheaper than buying locally.
I seem to remember Greg (82911) running a fair whack of N2O in days gone by.... as did I, but neither on a Red 6. A local here runs high tens in an HB with a fairly standard 202 and 350 holley with a plate. He has had a few melt downs over the years though !
#19
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 03 March 2006 - 07:56 PM
just ordered a couple of books....yay.
#20
_user asked to be removed_
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Posted 04 March 2006 - 08:57 AM
Well, you could go and set it up for nitous and all, but why dont you just get a blower, sure I know more $$$ but it's full time performance, unlike nitrous, were you have to re-fill every god knows when. But then again wouldnt nitrous quickly overheat your engine? Plus if your only gonna use it once a month would it be worth it?
*Liam
*Liam
#21
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 04 March 2006 - 12:34 PM
if i was to blow the motor it would end up with a 4/71 jimmy poking through the passenger side of the bonnet...cop bait....
nitrous is removeable, and most of it can be taken from car to car.
nitrous is removeable, and most of it can be taken from car to car.
#22
_LJ308injected_
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Posted 07 March 2006 - 11:26 AM
Just make sure that the ring gap is opened up a little if you wanna put 100 to 150 through it as when hitting the switch N.O.S expands pistons and i think you are dreaming putting that much through it without forges i have forges in my motor and if i want it to last wouldnt wanna put more than 100hp through that. 50 to 75 is realistic and like i said make sure you open the ring gap you might need to get a oil catch can as opening the ring gap causes blow by if opened up alot
Cheers: Steve
Cheers: Steve
#23
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 07 March 2006 - 05:52 PM
ok so just the ring gap, not the pison to bore gap?
yes i'm hearing a lot of this forgies for nos chat, i'm thinking about getting forged slugs for her.
the kit i have only goes down to 100hp i think, i'l have to look further into it. it's an endelbrock performer rpm kit with six nos brand fogger2 foggers....
yes i'm hearing a lot of this forgies for nos chat, i'm thinking about getting forged slugs for her.
the kit i have only goes down to 100hp i think, i'l have to look further into it. it's an endelbrock performer rpm kit with six nos brand fogger2 foggers....
#24
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 08 March 2006 - 08:30 PM
allright, this is gonna sound dumb, but what is the worst thing that can happen with the hypers??? Melt a couple?? seeing though the block is already bored to suit the hypers i have i'm considering dropping them in untill they start giving trouble then rebuild the motor +40 with forgies....does this sound stupid?
#25
_@milco@_
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Posted 08 March 2006 - 10:18 PM
nah i would do that, you have them already and you dont want to get forgies and get the block redone,allright, this is gonna sound dumb, but what is the worst thing that can happen with the hypers??? Melt a couple?? seeing though the block is already bored to suit the hypers i have i'm considering dropping them in untill they start giving trouble then rebuild the motor +40 with forgies....does this sound stupid?
just wack it to gether and start off small then work up
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