Ok, I thought I would start a serious thread in regards to this. I have NO experience in this stuff. All i know is I am on a tight budget, and i want bang for buck!
Now Convince me why VN heads would better suit MY purpose. Or why Early heads would.
Remember,
VN heads require ME TO BUY
- New Manifold
- New Exhaust
- New Cam
- New Rocker Covers
- Anything Else?
I am chasing 350-400hp. This motor is planned to be in the car for about 4-5 years. Then I will be undertaking an LSx Conversion and get some real power!
Here are MY Advantages
of VN heads
- WAY Better Design
- Bolt on Power
- Heads will never hold me back
Of Early Heads
- Cheaper for me (Parts listed above)
- Stock, Original looking engine bay
- Already have a set of L34 ported ones and the gear to go with it.
- Bit of a challenge
Not trying to stir stuff up. But People are saying that Early heads are useless! Not everyone on here have unlimited budgets and chasing stupid power! If VN heads are that much better as people are saying, it should be easy to convince me to change.
VN V8 Heads vs Early V8 Heads
Started by
MRLXSS
, Oct 16 2008 07:48 AM
40 replies to this topic
#1
MRLXSS
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Posted 16 October 2008 - 07:48 AM
#2
_HatchmanSS76_
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Posted 16 October 2008 - 08:26 AM
The most important thing you mentioned is you are going to replace it with a LSx engine in 4-5 years. The decission needs to be is that a deffinite plan or a dream?
If it's deffinite than what ever doesn't use unecessary funds is the way to go. If it's a dream, forget the cheaper option and go the best option for the now as the dream may never happen.
If it's deffinite than what ever doesn't use unecessary funds is the way to go. If it's a dream, forget the cheaper option and go the best option for the now as the dream may never happen.
#3
MRLXSS
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Posted 16 October 2008 - 08:34 AM
Lets just say its going to be a Big dollar build in 4-5 years now. 80% sure I want to it be an LSx. There are more and more conversion parts available which will only make it easier.
This current build, is on about a 1.5-2k budget.
This current build, is on about a 1.5-2k budget.
#4
_TJ253_
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Posted 16 October 2008 - 08:45 AM
I Recon stick with the old heads that you already have yeah VN heads are better but buy the time you
Buy new exhaust Cam Manifold and a set of heads it will cost you alot more then using the old heads
I know you want to buy a house soonish so the more $$ you can save towards it the better
When you have enough Equity in the house do a LS1 conversion
Buy new exhaust Cam Manifold and a set of heads it will cost you alot more then using the old heads
I know you want to buy a house soonish so the more $$ you can save towards it the better
When you have enough Equity in the house do a LS1 conversion
#5
_chrome yella_
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Posted 16 October 2008 - 08:51 AM
for street use only use the l34 heads, look at the history for early head 308s. they were getting up to 420hp on group c regs, what more do you want. forget about the late heads they dont look right, and there not much better on the street. and nothing sounds tuffer than a l34 getting on it. GO OLD SCHOOL it rules cheers gary.Lets just say its going to be a Big dollar build in 4-5 years now. 80% sure I want to it be an LSx. There are more and more conversion parts available which will only make it easier.
This current build, is on about a 1.5-2k budget.
#6
_Herne_
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Posted 16 October 2008 - 09:05 AM
Add to this list 'new valve springs' should be purchased to support the cam choice 
As for choice well it's really up to you, either way its going to cost you and remember once you start chasing horsepower you are likely to keep chasing
Cheers
Herne
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VN heads require ME TO BUY
- New Manifold
- New Exhaust
- New Cam
- New Rocker Covers
- Anything Else?
As for choice well it's really up to you, either way its going to cost you and remember once you start chasing horsepower you are likely to keep chasing
Cheers
Herne
------------------------------
VN heads require ME TO BUY
- New Manifold
- New Exhaust
- New Cam
- New Rocker Covers
- Anything Else?
#7
_rorym_
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Posted 16 October 2008 - 09:55 AM
Hmmm..Guess you need to think a different way..early heads aren't useless...they just need HEAPS of work to flow what VN ones do standard...If you do the VNs now...and the add ons you can get resonably cheap on Ebay, HSV headers 2nd hand manifold....the engine would be as tough as an LS1 so you don't actually have to go that route..things like extractors can be added later...so the main outlays are cam...again..bought mine 1/2 price new on Ebay..valve springs...not a motsa...rocker covers are $90 new on Ebay...
What I did was collect the parts at the right price first over a period...then did the engine...Just a thought...but as Herne said...once you start chasing..it never ends..
R
What I did was collect the parts at the right price first over a period...then did the engine...Just a thought...but as Herne said...once you start chasing..it never ends..
R
Edited by rorym, 16 October 2008 - 09:57 AM.
#8
_Herne_
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Posted 16 October 2008 - 10:09 AM
As Rory stated it pays to start buying items in when you see them cheap and build up slowly a collection of bits you need.
I too used ebay and I had the good fortune of being offered some excellent deals from forum members who know I can't earn nor pay the big bucks usually needed.
Ebay and the forum should never be dismissed, just be aware that not all on ebay is gold.
Cheap rocker covers can be purchased on ebay from our old friends procomp Their rocker covers are actually ok but you need to source the rocker cover bolts and grommets etc separately. Also the rocker covers you buy from procomp do not have a mister fitted but Struggler made and fitted mine.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Herne
I too used ebay and I had the good fortune of being offered some excellent deals from forum members who know I can't earn nor pay the big bucks usually needed.
Ebay and the forum should never be dismissed, just be aware that not all on ebay is gold.
Cheap rocker covers can be purchased on ebay from our old friends procomp
Their rocker covers are actually ok but you need to source the rocker cover bolts and grommets etc separately. Also the rocker covers you buy from procomp do not have a mister fitted but Struggler made and fitted mine.Hope this helps
Cheers
Herne
#9
_moot_
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Posted 16 October 2008 - 11:24 AM
if you already have cam,manifold,extractors etc to suit early heads i'd stay with them for a mild street engine,but if you have to buy any of this stuff,go for the vn's.
a very basic vn headed 355 (when done properly) should make a minimum of 450hp otherwise there is something wrong with it,good luck going near that on early heads with the same budget. 500hp is a walk in the park with a resonable 355,and it'll still be cheaper than an lsx conversion
a very basic vn headed 355 (when done properly) should make a minimum of 450hp otherwise there is something wrong with it,good luck going near that on early heads with the same budget. 500hp is a walk in the park with a resonable 355,and it'll still be cheaper than an lsx conversion
#10
MRLXSS
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Posted 16 October 2008 - 12:15 PM
Good point with the LSx conversion... I am thinking that route, mainly to be a little different... And also has a few other benefits associated with it (Either way it will cost me shit loads!)
But plans change! I have two Torana's. The SS is always going to have a 5L with Old style heads etc... The Motor i have just got for MRLXSS is a QT block, so in a few years time it might be perfect just to swap over to the SS, and MRLXSS can either get a LSx motor, or a 355 etc etc...
For the moment, i don't have the money to be chasing 450-500hp+
But plans change! I have two Torana's. The SS is always going to have a 5L with Old style heads etc... The Motor i have just got for MRLXSS is a QT block, so in a few years time it might be perfect just to swap over to the SS, and MRLXSS can either get a LSx motor, or a 355 etc etc...
For the moment, i don't have the money to be chasing 450-500hp+
#11
LS1LX
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Posted 16 October 2008 - 04:29 PM
If you want 350HP cheap then use your L34 heads and get the crank offset to a 330ci, a small solid stick will get you 350HP.
If you want 400+ with VN heads your going to need at least $6000 to build an engine.
You can get a brand new crate LS2 up n running for under $7k and its a guaranteed 410+HP STOCK STANDARD.
To give you an idea, with street tyres full street form my old LS1 engine in the Torana was pretty much standard, has a small 220 deg camshaft and valve springs. Thats it. It ran 11.90 at 117mph my first time racing. (Had 425HP on engine dyno)
Now I have a stock LS2 in there, untouched, not even a change of valve springs, the thing is even quicker than before. (ONLY RATED AT 307KW/410HP)
Just some food for thought.
If you want 400+ with VN heads your going to need at least $6000 to build an engine.
You can get a brand new crate LS2 up n running for under $7k and its a guaranteed 410+HP STOCK STANDARD.
To give you an idea, with street tyres full street form my old LS1 engine in the Torana was pretty much standard, has a small 220 deg camshaft and valve springs. Thats it. It ran 11.90 at 117mph my first time racing. (Had 425HP on engine dyno)
Now I have a stock LS2 in there, untouched, not even a change of valve springs, the thing is even quicker than before. (ONLY RATED AT 307KW/410HP)
Just some food for thought.
#13
_moot_
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Posted 16 October 2008 - 05:44 PM
dont bother with a 330ci. machining costs are more than a scat/eagle crank.
my mates 355 cost 7k carby to sump and runs 10's.but i love lsx engines.just depends on the dollars, good custom pipes are the best part of $2500 for and ls1.... a new crate engine is 4k,plus extras
my mates 355 cost 7k carby to sump and runs 10's.but i love lsx engines.just depends on the dollars, good custom pipes are the best part of $2500 for and ls1.... a new crate engine is 4k,plus extras
#14
LS1LX
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Posted 16 October 2008 - 06:37 PM
dont bother with a 330ci. machining costs are more than a scat/eagle crank.
my mates 355 cost 7k carby to sump and runs 10's.but i love lsx engines.just depends on the dollars, good custom pipes are the best part of $2500 for and ls1.... a new crate engine is 4k,plus extras
If you make the pipes your self there's only $3-400 in them.
I have custom made sumps for $500 but they require a remote oil filter setup.
Apart from that, you get a crate engine for around $4000 and you have $2k to put a carby manifold and carby ontop.
Very easily doable for between $6-7000 and its a Brand NEW genuine 420HP stocker. Not bad bang for buck.
Or slap a nice solid in the 308 and get it revving to 7,000rpm and you will make 400HP, might be a pig to drive though.
#15
_HRV74_
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Posted 16 October 2008 - 09:49 PM
Or slap a nice solid in the 308 and get it revving to 7,000rpm and you will make 400HP, might be a pig to drive though.
True. A decent Hydraulic could get you in the ball park though. I had a stock stroke 308 built in the mid 90's using a Crane CCH304 (236 Deg. @ .050") to make 361hp on the engine dyno. Found it pretty streetable (with an auto/highstall anyway). Other parts included 10.5 comp, zero deck height, L34 heads (with a pretty average port job), Edelbrock Torker manifold and a 650dp.
Cheers, H
#16
_moot_
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Posted 17 October 2008 - 05:55 AM
If you make the pipes your self there's only $3-400 in them.
yeah but theres like 3 people on this forum that could actually do it
i made 370rwhp with a 308 and a crane 286, but it had a 175hp shot of gas
#17
_AGGRO_
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Posted 17 October 2008 - 08:56 AM
If you go to vn heads i'll take your old style heads off ya. I agree with moot, if you have to buy cam manifold extractors lifters etc already buy the vn heads. If you already have bits use your current heads.
#18
GML-31
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Posted 17 October 2008 - 09:03 AM
I know of 2 x 308's with cast early heads that were built in last 12 months both achieving over 350 at wheels
#19
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#20
MRLXSS
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Posted 17 October 2008 - 10:22 AM
far out, thats good!
#21
Joshua
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Posted 17 October 2008 - 10:26 AM
far out, thats good!
make a bid... you know you want too
#22
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Posted 17 October 2008 - 10:31 AM
Can't afford to... need to buy a house (Shed)
#23
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Posted 17 October 2008 - 10:39 AM
Can't afford to... need to buy a house (Shed)
but it's so cheap!
#24
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Posted 17 October 2008 - 11:15 AM
Makka might have a bid though...
#25
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Posted 17 October 2008 - 11:57 AM
With all the money you are going to spend trying to make 400 horses, then in a few years you are going to replace with a Ls motor. It would be best left as is put all the money towards a LS, because anything you spend now is dead money. Not much of your drive line is going to be able to mate with the chev.
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