Hey again everyone.
Ive got a 1976 LX SS, and im just wandering what my options are for air con?
I live up north of perth, where its hot all year round so it would be nice to have the luxury.
Its a manual 253 if that makes any difference.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Air con on an SS
Started by
_BlakeSS_
, Mar 01 2006 07:57 PM
40 replies to this topic
#2
surfmaster
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Marineboy
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Posted 01 March 2006 - 08:04 PM
Most of the aircons in LX's were dealer fitted, although I suspect there were a very few factory jobbies around as well. Maybe you could try and find an original that will take later model gas?
#3
_BlakeSS_
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Posted 01 March 2006 - 08:13 PM
There was one on ebay not that long ago, but i was short of money so I couldnt get it.
Is there any a/c units off of commodores or statesman's that can be adapted to the torana?
Is there any a/c units off of commodores or statesman's that can be adapted to the torana?
#4
surfmaster
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Posted 01 March 2006 - 08:22 PM
The bits that bolt to the engine, (compressor) need to be integrated with the torana parts, not sure this is easily done. Suspect there would be a lot of mucking around to make it fit as the Torana gear was a hang on (underdash) setup while the Commodore setups were integrated into the dash, which included vents, switches and controls. The later gas has to be compatible with the system to.
#5
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 01 March 2006 - 09:17 PM
Some misinformation above....
BlakeSS: you have two options:
Integrated fact air(either fitted at the fact or by the dealer) - where evaporator and blower motor is under the bonnet(no loss of interior room or:
Aftermarket air(non gmh) - evaporator and blower is hung under the dash. These may have been dealer fitted or at aircon supplier.
You need specific brackets to fit the aircon compressor to your v8, theres some threads going on that atm.
Some parts from commodores/kingswoods/statesmans are usable - namely compressor and condensor,but the evaporator/underbonnet unit from any of these wont fit the torana, though Ive heard some whispers that someone squeezed one from an older commodore in there. There are two fact systems fitted to LH toranas, one for 6s and the other V8s. You obviously want the v8 one, known as the vir system, also fitted to the uc.
1. Installing the fact air system is a much bigger job for several reasons,there are a lot more parts(making sure you have all the parts is one problem) and refitting of controls needed - can list all this more specifically if you require.
2. There is not much expertise out there on getting these systems to work properly if you have a prob(which is a possibility with 30yo parts), they are much more complex mechanically than present day systems.
3. They are designed to work on r12(possibly not available most places) and need expert modification to work on either r134 or HC, more problematic with VIR units.
Under dash units are simpler to install and purchase 2nd hand, easier to repair and understood by anyone who can regas an aircon system, they will run on r134 solely by replacing the tx valve. They will cool just as well as the fact system, generally better, as they come with a bigger evaporator than the fact system. The obvious drawback is the reduction in legroom. There are slimmer ones that go all the way from the passenger side to under the centre console,which are preferable to the chunkier ones which hang solely below the glovebox.
Getting an underdash unit supplied new and fitted is also an option.
Dont know the numbers regarding how many torries have fact air and those that now have aftermarket underdash units, but from my observations would suspect that approx 5% of torries have air atm and only 2% would have fact sytems.
BlakeSS: you have two options:
Integrated fact air(either fitted at the fact or by the dealer) - where evaporator and blower motor is under the bonnet(no loss of interior room or:
Aftermarket air(non gmh) - evaporator and blower is hung under the dash. These may have been dealer fitted or at aircon supplier.
You need specific brackets to fit the aircon compressor to your v8, theres some threads going on that atm.
Some parts from commodores/kingswoods/statesmans are usable - namely compressor and condensor,but the evaporator/underbonnet unit from any of these wont fit the torana, though Ive heard some whispers that someone squeezed one from an older commodore in there. There are two fact systems fitted to LH toranas, one for 6s and the other V8s. You obviously want the v8 one, known as the vir system, also fitted to the uc.
1. Installing the fact air system is a much bigger job for several reasons,there are a lot more parts(making sure you have all the parts is one problem) and refitting of controls needed - can list all this more specifically if you require.
2. There is not much expertise out there on getting these systems to work properly if you have a prob(which is a possibility with 30yo parts), they are much more complex mechanically than present day systems.
3. They are designed to work on r12(possibly not available most places) and need expert modification to work on either r134 or HC, more problematic with VIR units.
Under dash units are simpler to install and purchase 2nd hand, easier to repair and understood by anyone who can regas an aircon system, they will run on r134 solely by replacing the tx valve. They will cool just as well as the fact system, generally better, as they come with a bigger evaporator than the fact system. The obvious drawback is the reduction in legroom. There are slimmer ones that go all the way from the passenger side to under the centre console,which are preferable to the chunkier ones which hang solely below the glovebox.
Getting an underdash unit supplied new and fitted is also an option.
Dont know the numbers regarding how many torries have fact air and those that now have aftermarket underdash units, but from my observations would suspect that approx 5% of torries have air atm and only 2% would have fact sytems.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 01 March 2006 - 09:23 PM.
#6
_BlakeSS_
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Posted 01 March 2006 - 10:46 PM
Cheers for the helpful posts.
Do you know any suppliers of underdash units?
Do you know any suppliers of underdash units?
#7
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 09:02 AM
With the change in A/C gases, I don't think going for the old R134a (???) systems is worth the hassle, as you have to change over a valve for the new 'greenie' gas. We did this in the VN Commodore, cost about $600, and it's not too flash on the new gas, although going to get that looked at. Because of this, I'd probably look at a new aftermarket system that suits the new gas, as I think there are other differences in a system properly designed for the new gas.
Just as a small aside, saw these evaporative cooling units that just sit on the floor in Jaycar Electronics. Anyone given them a go? Just plugs into the cigarette lighter. Wouldn't work to well with the high humidity levels up in the Territory though, find for down here were we have low humidity, and keeps the car original!!! WOOT!!! As with all evaporative systems, you have no control over temperature, you get what you get.
Just as a small aside, saw these evaporative cooling units that just sit on the floor in Jaycar Electronics. Anyone given them a go? Just plugs into the cigarette lighter. Wouldn't work to well with the high humidity levels up in the Territory though, find for down here were we have low humidity, and keeps the car original!!! WOOT!!! As with all evaporative systems, you have no control over temperature, you get what you get.
#8
_Leakey_
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 09:05 AM
Hi Blakey, nice ride by the way! Love the colour & stripes.
[mine's yellow with orange/red stripes]
Above info is bang on.
I have a factory unit and it is bizar how different so much of the
under dash set up is with vacuum controlled everything! My slider
switched are different, blower etc etc all heavily factory modified.
You can get a new under dash type that will be more reliable,
and easier to service.
I am still happy I have factory air, but there is a lot of work and $$$
needed to use current gas.
Good luck with the build.
Oh, dont know if this helps at all, but an LX SL hatchback went on ebay
for $600 buy it now! and it had a factory air set up. It was a six though.
You might be able to track down who bought it. It was country NSW,
a bit away from you. He/she might part with it on the cheap. Dont know
how different they are to the V8 version though.
REDA9X or Devil's are the ones to ask on that note.
Cheers, Leakey
[mine's yellow with orange/red stripes]
Above info is bang on.
I have a factory unit and it is bizar how different so much of the
under dash set up is with vacuum controlled everything! My slider
switched are different, blower etc etc all heavily factory modified.
You can get a new under dash type that will be more reliable,
and easier to service.
I am still happy I have factory air, but there is a lot of work and $$$
needed to use current gas.
Good luck with the build.
Oh, dont know if this helps at all, but an LX SL hatchback went on ebay
for $600 buy it now! and it had a factory air set up. It was a six though.
You might be able to track down who bought it. It was country NSW,
a bit away from you. He/she might part with it on the cheap. Dont know
how different they are to the V8 version though.
REDA9X or Devil's are the ones to ask on that note.
Cheers, Leakey
Edited by Leakey, 02 March 2006 - 09:07 AM.
#9
ToRunYa
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 09:19 AM
i have one of those "slimline" ones that go over the top of the original centre vent (still havent fitted it yet, next summer 
) brought it without compresser or pump for about $300- on ebay. Ive dodged it to some power and the fan is alot better than i expected and i could feel a breeze while sitting in the hatch.
Yella havent tried the jaycar mad lill fan doovie yet,might buy one and have a cooler set for the firewall so me thongs dont melt lol
) brought it without compresser or pump for about $300- on ebay. Ive dodged it to some power and the fan is alot better than i expected and i could feel a breeze while sitting in the hatch.Yella havent tried the jaycar mad lill fan doovie yet,might buy one and have a cooler set for the firewall so me thongs dont melt lol
#10
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 09:25 AM
r134a is the current gas. r12 or freon is the old variety, changeover occured in 94.With the change in A/C gases, I don't think going for the old R134a (???) systems is worth the hassle, as you have to change over a valve for the new 'greenie' gas. We did this in the VN Commodore, cost about $600, and it's not too flash on the new gas, although going to get that looked at.
The cost of getting a system converted isnt much if the tx valve can be easily accessed, however, and also depends on whether the installer changes over the refrigerating oil and flushes the system. Some systems just dont have a big enough condensor to cope and need additional fans and/or parallel flow condensors fitted.
#11
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 09:35 AM
Often thought in our dry hot areas why evaporative cooling isn't used in cars, would seem perfect, although wouldn't work in the tropics or near the coast.
Yup, your right devils, knew it changed didn't know what, where or when, but I know we got a $600 bill when all we wanted was an A/C regas on the wife's luxury saloon (crummydore, don't get overly excited). I also heard that there is a new 'greenie' gas that doesn't require that conversion now. Is that correct? Only thing holding me back from fitting the compressor back in the Laser ---> $600 valve thingy. At this stage it has an A/C switch and a little blue light that comes on, that psycologically makes you feel a bit cooler!!!
Yup, your right devils, knew it changed didn't know what, where or when, but I know we got a $600 bill when all we wanted was an A/C regas on the wife's luxury saloon (crummydore, don't get overly excited). I also heard that there is a new 'greenie' gas that doesn't require that conversion now. Is that correct? Only thing holding me back from fitting the compressor back in the Laser ---> $600 valve thingy. At this stage it has an A/C switch and a little blue light that comes on, that psycologically makes you feel a bit cooler!!!
Edited by Yella SLuR, 02 March 2006 - 09:35 AM.
#12
_MYLJ_
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:13 AM
Whats wrong with the old 4by100 A/C system? When I was growing up this was the only form of airconditioning we ever had in our family's cars 
and they still work just the same now as they did when I was a kid much cheaper option than worrying about the new gases!!
and they still work just the same now as they did when I was a kid much cheaper option than worrying about the new gases!!
#13
ToRunYa
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:29 AM
yer unfortunatly that doesnt work in my car only works to 80 then the rear two shut off (snap shut lol) and then the tops of the doors wiggle and flap around lol
the wind burn was fantastic on long trips in the old datsun 180B when i was a kid, i have the freckles to prove it!
the wind burn was fantastic on long trips in the old datsun 180B when i was a kid, i have the freckles to prove it!
#14
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:49 AM
I think you mean sun burn................no one ever got "wind burn" at nightthe wind burn was fantastic on long trips in the old datsun 180B when i was a kid, i have the freckles to prove it!
#15
ToRunYa
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:52 AM
*looks around* when did i say night?
your right anyway who could get windburn sitting the back of a 180B, you need speed for that and that poor old pumpkin with the mission brown racing stripes to cover the rust couldnt do that.
your right anyway who could get windburn sitting the back of a 180B, you need speed for that and that poor old pumpkin with the mission brown racing stripes to cover the rust couldnt do that.
#16
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:57 AM
Okay, there is basically no such thing as windburn at car like speeds. It is sunburn typically disguised by the cooling effect of the moving air....... hence the comment no one ever has reported getting windburn at night.
#17
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 12:06 PM
You must live in Melbourne. My one and only time at the drags, mild spring day, overcast, slight breeze, wind burn to hell. You don't need much wind to get windburn, and it hurts hell of a lot more than sunburn. I'll never forget my one and only day at the drags.
#18
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 05:36 PM
Can lead a ............but cant make it think, but you reckon they could type 'windburn' into a search engine?.......................
#19
_Jewboy_
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:00 PM
I spoke with a Auto aircon guy and there is another gas, it's similar to SM142 (forgot what its called now) and you can use it in the old r12 systems and no need to do any other changes (assuming everything's ok) and costs less than going to r134a.
Edited by Jewboy, 02 March 2006 - 10:00 PM.
#20
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:16 PM
Sm 142?
Are you perhaps referring to Hydrocarbon refrigerant. This is generally an acceptable replacement in most tx valve equipped aircon systems that originally used r12, but wont work very well at all in the torana poast or vir systems......despite what any aircon guy claims.
HC has its detractors, it works brilliantly, yet is highly flammable, so it is not supplied as original equipment by any manufacturer and is banned in most US states.
Are you perhaps referring to Hydrocarbon refrigerant. This is generally an acceptable replacement in most tx valve equipped aircon systems that originally used r12, but wont work very well at all in the torana poast or vir systems......despite what any aircon guy claims.
HC has its detractors, it works brilliantly, yet is highly flammable, so it is not supplied as original equipment by any manufacturer and is banned in most US states.
#21
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 03 March 2006 - 06:49 AM
Thanks for that Jewboy, might look at going that way for the Laser then, so it's got more than the blue light!!!I spoke with a Auto aircon guy and there is another gas, it's similar to SM142 (forgot what its called now) and you can use it in the old r12 systems and no need to do any other changes (assuming everything's ok) and costs less than going to r134a.
#22
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 03 March 2006 - 12:59 PM
Strange....just pressed 'send' and my post disappeared into cyber space......so youll know what happened if a similar post appears..
HC's is a worthwhile option for DIY. Can buy over the counter at Burson's for $24 for a 300g can(which will recharge a whole car) + charging hose/adaptor for $30-40.(no licence req unlike r134 or r12) Once the system is evacuated and filled with HC its easy to use the can and hose to keep it topped up with HC, cheaper than fixing leaks(rebuilding leaky compressors isnt inexpensive.....all provided one does a little research into knowing what you are doing.
Ive got my 2uc underdash units running on the stuff and its a cheap way to keep the air up and running rather than fork out for expensive regassing every six months or so.
HC's is a worthwhile option for DIY. Can buy over the counter at Burson's for $24 for a 300g can(which will recharge a whole car) + charging hose/adaptor for $30-40.(no licence req unlike r134 or r12) Once the system is evacuated and filled with HC its easy to use the can and hose to keep it topped up with HC, cheaper than fixing leaks(rebuilding leaky compressors isnt inexpensive.....all provided one does a little research into knowing what you are doing.
Ive got my 2uc underdash units running on the stuff and its a cheap way to keep the air up and running rather than fork out for expensive regassing every six months or so.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 03 March 2006 - 01:00 PM.
#23
_Leakey_
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Posted 03 March 2006 - 08:28 PM
Howdy Devil's,
That sounds really interesting. Do you know if I can use that on
my factory six air con?
[crosses every digit]
- Leakey
That sounds really interesting. Do you know if I can use that on
my factory six air con?
[crosses every digit]
- Leakey
#24
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 03 March 2006 - 09:16 PM
You can use it, whether it works well or not, can be a bit of a lottery.
What fact system do you have? is it a LH,LX or UC or more specifically is it a VIR or POAST unit, the VIR has a large cylinder with a domed top with four hoses/pipes going into it and would be placed right next to the aircon box.
What fact system do you have? is it a LH,LX or UC or more specifically is it a VIR or POAST unit, the VIR has a large cylinder with a domed top with four hoses/pipes going into it and would be placed right next to the aircon box.
#25
_Jewboy_
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Posted 03 March 2006 - 10:31 PM
Ok i found his business card. The gas is sp34e. He quoted me around $400 to change to r134a and $150 for sp34e which is what i'll do on my falcon when i get around to it.
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