I found some info on sp34e
SP34E is listed by the EPA as an R-12 substitute for both retro-
fit and new applications. According to the manufacturer,
SP34E is composed of 98.5% R134a and 1.5% "additive."
This additive allows the mineral oil that would not normally
be carried by R134a, to be carried through the system and provide
proper lubrication to the compressor. As with the other S.N.A.P. listed R12
substitutes, SP34E requires the use of specific fittings and labels when
installed in an R12 vehicle.
SP34E is a unique product in that it could be used as the universal
refrigerant within an A/C shop. It�s 98.5% R134a purity means that it
meets the SAE purity requirement for installation in an R134a system
without any retrofitting. In an R12 system however, the technician must
be sure to install a high-pressure cutoff switch, barrier hoses, new fittings
and new labels.
As with all S.N.A.P. approved blend refrigerants, SP34E, when
installed according to the EPA laws, limits the number of A/C
shops, particularly OEM servicing dealers. The special fittings
are an immediate indication that the OEM recommended
refrigerant has been replaced with a blend. The A/C shop
performing the service needs a recovery machine dedicated to the
recovery of SP34E. This dedicated machine requires special hoses to
connect to the vehicle. The manufacturer recommends using an R12 R/R
machine for the recovery and installation of SP34E.
Air con on an SS
Started by
_BlakeSS_
, Mar 01 2006 07:57 PM
40 replies to this topic
#27
_Leakey_
_Leakey_
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Posted 04 March 2006 - 12:47 PM
Hi Devils' here is my six cylinder set up.
Hope this helps clear up any other q's about compatability
with V8's too.
Cheers, leakey
Oh, and for the record, here is the dash set up for factory air too BlakeSS.
When I move the sliders all the sounds are 'sucking' air as they are vacuum
controlled, not wire controlled.
Hope this helps clear up any other q's about compatability
with V8's too.
Cheers, leakey
Oh, and for the record, here is the dash set up for factory air too BlakeSS.
When I move the sliders all the sounds are 'sucking' air as they are vacuum
controlled, not wire controlled.
#29
_devilsadvocate_
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 04 March 2006 - 06:57 PM
leakey,you have a vir setup, that domed vessel with the 4 hoses goig into it is the receiver dryer and valve unit. (valve in receiver) you have an lx?
speaking from experience, mostly bad, r134a or HC's wont work well in a vir. on r12 these systems will cool spectacularly, expect vent temp of 5C with blower on high in 40C heat. expect temps in the teens with the other stuff. supposedly got something to do with the system needing the higher density of the r12. vir have been reworked for134, but still wouldnt cut the mustard in my car.
Is your systemworking,out of gas. It is worth ringing, hunting around to try and track down some r12, you will pay a bit more for it, but it should 1. give superior cooling and 2, overall less hassles. i wish i did, my system no is minus the vir and runs on r134 and is barely good enough, would have cost far less to track down r12
dont let any one near the car with anything else, unless they really know what they are doing......ask them to give you written guarantees of the vent temps, get them to describe how the vir works etc
sp34e sounds like its a good drop in alternative,but suspect it would have the same probs in a vir unit
speaking from experience, mostly bad, r134a or HC's wont work well in a vir. on r12 these systems will cool spectacularly, expect vent temp of 5C with blower on high in 40C heat. expect temps in the teens with the other stuff. supposedly got something to do with the system needing the higher density of the r12. vir have been reworked for134, but still wouldnt cut the mustard in my car.
Is your systemworking,out of gas. It is worth ringing, hunting around to try and track down some r12, you will pay a bit more for it, but it should 1. give superior cooling and 2, overall less hassles. i wish i did, my system no is minus the vir and runs on r134 and is barely good enough, would have cost far less to track down r12
dont let any one near the car with anything else, unless they really know what they are doing......ask them to give you written guarantees of the vent temps, get them to describe how the vir works etc
sp34e sounds like its a good drop in alternative,but suspect it would have the same probs in a vir unit
#30
_Leakey_
_Leakey_
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Posted 04 March 2006 - 07:04 PM
Thanks Devil's,
Yes I will try and find some.
So it does still exist, just not really legal? or not really legal
to regas if system is leaking?
I will try to track some down. When I do I'll post.
Thanks for the good advice.
Cheers, Leakey
Yes I will try and find some.
So it does still exist, just not really legal? or not really legal
to regas if system is leaking?
I will try to track some down. When I do I'll post.
Thanks for the good advice.
Cheers, Leakey
#31
_devilsadvocate_
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 04 March 2006 - 07:28 PM
r12 is only illegal to put into cars manufactured after 94, and of course its manufacture is banned in Australia, but i dont think it was ever made here.
It is illegal for anyone to discharge it into the environment, or knowingly fill a car with it into a leaking system........didnt stop anyone topping up mine when it was on r12.......they really are meant to leak test it......find any leaks........and remove the r12 to stop it leaking further.
r12 is not banned from sale, not sure about the importation of it though. Theres plenty in mexico......lots of americans drive over the border simply to get the car regassed.
It is illegal for anyone to discharge it into the environment, or knowingly fill a car with it into a leaking system........didnt stop anyone topping up mine when it was on r12.......they really are meant to leak test it......find any leaks........and remove the r12 to stop it leaking further.
r12 is not banned from sale, not sure about the importation of it though. Theres plenty in mexico......lots of americans drive over the border simply to get the car regassed.
#32
_Jewboy_
_Jewboy_
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Posted 04 March 2006 - 09:42 PM
Today i had the great fortune to have r134a spray in my face today. Its bright fluro green (similar to coolant but brighter) and stinks, luckly i wear glasses as they copped the direct blast.
#33
_devilsadvocate_
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 04 March 2006 - 09:54 PM
The fluoro is typically added by the person doing the regassing so one can spot leaks more easily. If you are working with aircon, glasses are essential.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 04 March 2006 - 09:55 PM.
#34
_Leakey_
_Leakey_
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Posted 20 March 2006 - 04:05 PM
Devil's you about?
Have tried everywhere to find old stocks of r12. No deal.
Keep getting the "nup, you need to convert it... a grand'l do it."
"You cant run anything but r12, and it dont exist no more"
"Will convert it for $1500...."
etc, etc.
AAHHHHH!!! didn't think it would cost that much to get up and running!
Any advice or hear of anyone in Sydney that might get this
up and running for way less? Being reasonably mechanically
minded and handy, is it something I could source of wrecks?
and put in myself?
Any suggestions would be welcome.
Cheers, leakey
Have tried everywhere to find old stocks of r12. No deal.
Keep getting the "nup, you need to convert it... a grand'l do it."
"You cant run anything but r12, and it dont exist no more"
"Will convert it for $1500...."
etc, etc.
AAHHHHH!!! didn't think it would cost that much to get up and running!
Any advice or hear of anyone in Sydney that might get this
up and running for way less? Being reasonably mechanically
minded and handy, is it something I could source of wrecks?
and put in myself?
Any suggestions would be welcome.
Cheers, leakey
#35
_devilsadvocate_
_devilsadvocate_
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- Guests
Posted 26 March 2006 - 02:11 PM
Sorry didnt see this one!
Prices for changeovers sound ridiculous.
What are they saying they are going to do exactlly?
For 134A conversion on a vir system or poast, things they might quote to do:
Replace condensor with parallel flow~2-300
Replace a6 compressor with rebuilt a6 r134 rated one ~2-300
Replace vir/poast with one designed for 134 ~150-200
flush system
Fit extra cooling fans.
Perhaps you could get close to $1500, but id like to see everthing written down and itemised in the quote.
My fact system runs on 134, the vir was replaced with a r134tx valve and receiver dryer, the compressor and condensor left as they were. System flushed, cost ~$300 all up.
The condensor in the fact system in my opinion is large enough for r134 and provided keep with your six or 7blade aircon fan(rather than go ford electric or similar)+ aux electric fan shouldnt have a prob. There are a couple of places in melb that still had r12, though i suppose thats not much use to you.
Another option is to go hydrocarbon. Try it in your existing setup, you may luck out and have it work. If not do changeover to r12 type txvalve and separate receiver dryer. This will put zero extra load on the compressor and condensor and cooling performance wont be reduced, and wont require system flushing either. Id do that if had my time again here. Advantage is that you can top up and recharge this yourself.
Prices for changeovers sound ridiculous.
What are they saying they are going to do exactlly?
For 134A conversion on a vir system or poast, things they might quote to do:
Replace condensor with parallel flow~2-300
Replace a6 compressor with rebuilt a6 r134 rated one ~2-300
Replace vir/poast with one designed for 134 ~150-200
flush system
Fit extra cooling fans.
Perhaps you could get close to $1500, but id like to see everthing written down and itemised in the quote.
My fact system runs on 134, the vir was replaced with a r134tx valve and receiver dryer, the compressor and condensor left as they were. System flushed, cost ~$300 all up.
The condensor in the fact system in my opinion is large enough for r134 and provided keep with your six or 7blade aircon fan(rather than go ford electric or similar)+ aux electric fan shouldnt have a prob. There are a couple of places in melb that still had r12, though i suppose thats not much use to you.
Another option is to go hydrocarbon. Try it in your existing setup, you may luck out and have it work. If not do changeover to r12 type txvalve and separate receiver dryer. This will put zero extra load on the compressor and condensor and cooling performance wont be reduced, and wont require system flushing either. Id do that if had my time again here. Advantage is that you can top up and recharge this yourself.
#36
_Leakey_
_Leakey_
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Posted 26 March 2006 - 04:06 PM
Thanks Matey, I should have PM'd you.
The hydro' route sounds interesting?
So that's just changing the valve(s) itself.
Then you use pressure pack cans of the stuff?
I notice there is a valve down at the compressor and one at the...
....the upper thing! Is this just a screw on item? At present they
look about the size of a tyre valve!
If I run the motor, screw the aluminium cap off the valve and press
the valve bit it hisses. Is that a sign the compressor is OK?
Thanks for the advice!
Cheers, leakey
The hydro' route sounds interesting?
So that's just changing the valve(s) itself.
Then you use pressure pack cans of the stuff?
I notice there is a valve down at the compressor and one at the...
....the upper thing! Is this just a screw on item? At present they
look about the size of a tyre valve!
If I run the motor, screw the aluminium cap off the valve and press
the valve bit it hisses. Is that a sign the compressor is OK?
Thanks for the advice!
Cheers, leakey
#37
_devilsadvocate_
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 26 March 2006 - 04:53 PM
The valves you mention arent part of the actual refrigeration valving. Thats inside the vir. the replacement txvalve I speak of looks a little like a vaccum diaphram thingy. Cant get you a pic for the moment. The ones you mention are just valves to let refrigerant in with and provide an access for checking pressure. Yes, afik they are just normal schraeder tyre valves. One is low pressure, the one on the vir and when the system is operating correctly it will have 28.5psi on it, which you could measure with an accurate tyre gauge. It is also through this valve that you add more refrigerant. Yes HC can be added with cans, but you have to/ should have the system evacuated of r12 first.So that's just changing the valve(s) itself.
Then you use pressure pack cans of the stuff?
I notice there is a valve down at the compressor and one at the...
....the upper thing! Is this just a screw on item? At present they
look about the size of a tyre valve!
If I run the motor, screw the aluminium cap off the valve and press
the valve bit it hisses. Is that a sign the compressor is OK?
The valve on the compressor, is the high pressure valve. Dont go playing with this one, unless you are connecting a proper ac gauge to it, it can get pressures up to 300-400psi depending on the operation of the relief valve!. Imagine the consequences if you connected up the can to this. If you follow the pipes, the outlet of the compressor with the valve on it leads to the condensor, it gets very hot. Other ac systems may have the valves on both outlets of the compressor, it pays to examine the pipes carefully to see which is low and high, typically high will have the thinner hose coming of it.
The schraeder valves remain in a hydrocarbon system or stay with r12 fittings as they are known. In a r134 system that is properly done, all hoses are changed to barrier hoses and valve fittings are also changed to a different diameter/thread so r12 cant accidently be added to the system, like ulp.
Your system obviously has some refrigerant in it, good, but rarely does all the refrigerant leak out of a system, so only a sign that you dont have a giant leak in the system. I take it your system isnt cooling atm?
Edited by devilsadvocate, 26 March 2006 - 04:55 PM.
#38
_Leakey_
_Leakey_
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- Guests
Posted 26 March 2006 - 06:32 PM
Exactly, no cool air.
This is my system.
- Leakey
This is my system.
- Leakey
Edited by Leakey, 26 March 2006 - 06:34 PM.
#39
_devilsadvocate_
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 26 March 2006 - 08:19 PM
Sorry, did have a pic of the tx valve, you can just see it, in the spot where your vir would have been, the receiver dryer is not in pic as mounted behind left headlamp.
#40
_Yella SLuR_
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 26 March 2006 - 08:35 PM
There is another thread on here somewhere where somebody found the R12 replacement gas, which I'm told does not require the $1,000 conversion. I did the conversion on my Commodore, before I found out about this new gas.
Are you talking to a mechanic or an automotive air-conditioning specialist. I went with the mechanic, but would have paid to have gone to the later in hindsight. Even with the conversion, the system runs nowhere near as good as with the old R12 gas.
My advise is talk to a specialist before you part with your cash, wish I did.
Are you talking to a mechanic or an automotive air-conditioning specialist. I went with the mechanic, but would have paid to have gone to the later in hindsight. Even with the conversion, the system runs nowhere near as good as with the old R12 gas.
My advise is talk to a specialist before you part with your cash, wish I did.
#41
_devilsadvocate_
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 26 March 2006 - 10:39 PM
Old GM units(vir and poast) have a liking for the particular properties of r12 only. If someone has had success with sp34e in a GM vir or poast unit, ie gets close to factory performance specs, would be good to hear about.sp34e sounds like its a good drop in alternative,but suspect it would have the same probs in a vir unit
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