Hey all. Im in the middle of an engine change. I have just taken out the front end while im painting the engine bay. I was thinking about getting control arms and what ever other components powder coated, just a basic tidy up. All the bushes and ball joints ect are in top nick.
I have heard of a lot of people converting to a UC front end. Basically I would like to know what the bennifits of this is and if it is a worth while conversion.
Cheers
Benifits of a UC front end
Started by
_kolman_
, Mar 07 2006 08:28 PM
42 replies to this topic
#2
_Keithy's_UC_
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Posted 07 March 2006 - 08:44 PM
Radial Tuned Suspension (very similar to A9X setup)...
Smoother ride, better handling! And cornering stability!
Smoother ride, better handling! And cornering stability!
#3
Heath
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Posted 07 March 2006 - 08:52 PM
Yes Keith, but you have to remember that the LX also features RTS... but I also know that the UC front end is further developed than that.
Does it just go something along these lines?
LH - Satisfactory hangling
LX - Basic RTS, better than satisfactory handling
UC - Revised RTS, refined handling
Does it just go something along these lines?
LH - Satisfactory hangling
LX - Basic RTS, better than satisfactory handling
UC - Revised RTS, refined handling
#4
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 07 March 2006 - 09:19 PM
These days it's easy to mofify an LH front end to out perform a stock UC front end. There are three main differences.
#1 Location of top control arm ( two different heights )
#2 Offset top control arm.
#3 Solid mounted rack.
#1 There is enough room to re-drill any LH - UC crossmember so the top arm can be at either upper or lower position. Pics have been posted on these forums before and it's the easiset way to demonstrate the difference.
#2 This allows more positive castor to be dialed in. This can be done with any LH - UC front end by a simple wheel alignment.
#3 Make up some brass rack bushes for your LH/LX. It takes 20 minutes with a lathe. You then have a solid mounted rack.
There are some other minor changes, none of which you would probably notice under normal driving conditions. Overall, there is no advantage in changing from an LH to a UC front end. This is because there are cheaper, quicker and easier ways to make your LH out handle a UC. It's not that hard.
#1 Location of top control arm ( two different heights )
#2 Offset top control arm.
#3 Solid mounted rack.
#1 There is enough room to re-drill any LH - UC crossmember so the top arm can be at either upper or lower position. Pics have been posted on these forums before and it's the easiset way to demonstrate the difference.
#2 This allows more positive castor to be dialed in. This can be done with any LH - UC front end by a simple wheel alignment.
#3 Make up some brass rack bushes for your LH/LX. It takes 20 minutes with a lathe. You then have a solid mounted rack.
There are some other minor changes, none of which you would probably notice under normal driving conditions. Overall, there is no advantage in changing from an LH to a UC front end. This is because there are cheaper, quicker and easier ways to make your LH out handle a UC. It's not that hard.
#5
StephenSLR
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Posted 08 March 2006 - 02:03 PM
Almost,Does it just go something along these lines?
LH - Satisfactory hangling
LX - Basic RTS, better than satisfactory handling
UC - Revised RTS, refined handling
RTS Phase 1 came in during the LX years, my LX was manufactured in Sept. 1976 and didn't feature RTS.
Phase 2 RTS is used on the UC I don't know if any LX came out with Phase 2 RTS.
s
Edited by StephenSLR, 08 March 2006 - 02:04 PM.
#6
_Torana482HP_
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Posted 08 March 2006 - 04:02 PM
These days it's easy to mofify an LH front end to out perform a stock UC front end. There are three main differences.
#1 Location of top control arm ( two different heights )
#2 Offset top control arm.
#3 Solid mounted rack.
#1 There is enough room to re-drill any LH - UC crossmember so the top arm can be at either upper or lower position. Pics have been posted on these forums before and it's the easiset way to demonstrate the difference.
#2 This allows more positive castor to be dialed in. This can be done with any LH - UC front end by a simple wheel alignment.
#3 Make up some brass rack bushes for your LH/LX. It takes 20 minutes with a lathe. You then have a solid mounted rack.
This sounds very interesting chopper,
but im a dumbass when it comes to anywhere in a 500mm radius of the brakes.
Upgrade #3 sounds easy enough, but can you privide some pics for upgrades #1+2?
#1 - where to redrill?
#2 - do i just go get a wheel alignment and tell em to offset the top control arm?
Thanks mate.
#7
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 08 March 2006 - 05:24 PM
For option 1, it would be easier for somebody to post a pic of the modification. It is then very easy to explain. For option 2, get the guy to set it to UC specs.
#8
Dangerous
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Posted 09 March 2006 - 10:11 AM
Chopper, whereas I agree that this is one way in which more caster can be dialled in on an LH/LX front end, it also shifts the pivot axis of the upper arm a fair way away from where it is designed to be. Do you think that this would be a significant compromise?For option 2, get the guy to set it to UC specs.
The UC upper arms would be much better as the pivot axis stays where it should be, but they obviously require the dropping of the crossmember to fit, which is a PITA job.
#9
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Posted 09 March 2006 - 06:59 PM
Judging by that statement, you have no idea on how little it takes to alter the castor from LH to UC specs. A total of two shims for the left wishbone and two shims for the right wishbone. Remember, these shims are all of 1/8" thick.
Edited by CHOPPER, 09 March 2006 - 07:00 PM.
#10
_Torana482HP_
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Posted 09 March 2006 - 07:00 PM
pics anyone of modification #1 ??
also chopper what are some benefits of a solid mounted rack and the control arm changes?
Cheers Big Ears.
(sorry i had to say it, lol)
also chopper what are some benefits of a solid mounted rack and the control arm changes?
Cheers Big Ears.
(sorry i had to say it, lol)
#11
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Posted 09 March 2006 - 07:31 PM
Solid mounted rack doesn't move around as much. Different arm positions give different camber curves. Toranamat69 has been looking into this and will undoubtably post his findings once finished. I have seen pics of mod #1 on this site, so somebody has the pics somewhere.
#12
Heath
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Posted 09 March 2006 - 07:54 PM
I'm interested in making some of those brass rack bushes, could anyone give me some dimensions?
#13
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 09 March 2006 - 07:58 PM
Take the rack to a machine shop with the bolts that hold the rack in and tell him what you want. Post the quote, as others may be interested.
#14
Dangerous
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Posted 10 March 2006 - 04:09 PM
Geez, you must be right Chop - I've never played with Toranas in my life ..........Judging by that statement, you have no idea on how little it takes to alter the castor from LH to UC specs.
Have you played with geometry?????
#15
_Eddie_
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Posted 10 March 2006 - 04:41 PM
Hey there was a thread somewhere that mentioned the angle to stop the wear on the outside of the tyres, common to LH-LX. Can anyone give an idea what angle it should be? Don't they have machines they can measure it on? I want the dudes at Goodyear to shim mine.
What angles of camber do you run or is it different with every vehicle coz of different springs, wheels etc?
Also, do you get better handling when the wheels are cambered inwards?
What angles of camber do you run or is it different with every vehicle coz of different springs, wheels etc?
Also, do you get better handling when the wheels are cambered inwards?
#16
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 10 March 2006 - 06:20 PM
There is no "one spec fits all" because of flares, offset and ride height differences.
#18
_UCV80_
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Posted 11 March 2006 - 09:31 AM
when they do wheel alignments, do they put in the shims, as i lost all mine when i rebuilt the front end. so right now i have none.
cheers,
nathan
cheers,
nathan
#19
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 11 March 2006 - 12:20 PM
Call the place first. As there are very few HQ-WB and LC-UC Holdens aligned these days, a lot of places have very few shims if any. When I was in the industry, I would do up to 180 alignments a week. We might see one of the above mentioned vehicles monthly. Shims can be bought new from Repco and Bursons. If you go that way, buy all three sizes. 1/32", 1/16" and 1/8" thick shims. Should cost less than $10 a pack. Shop around first, there are huge variations in price from place to place.
#20
_UCV80_
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Posted 11 March 2006 - 01:46 PM
cheers, so how many shims does a front end take? i think i can only remember around 8
will they charge more do put the shims in or would it be included in the price, as it is part of alligning the wheels,
Thanx Chopper,
nathan
will they charge more do put the shims in or would it be included in the price, as it is part of alligning the wheels,
Thanx Chopper,
nathan
#21
Toranamat69
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Posted 11 March 2006 - 02:09 PM
Last couple of times I had my front end aligned, I had to ring them 3 days before so they could order in some shims as the alignment shops didn't have any.
The guy at CSM in caloundra sells stainless ones but it is good to know you can get the others from repco.
The last UC front end I pulled apart had about 6 x 1/8" and 2 x 1/16" spacers but it will depend on the luck of the draw to a certain extent.
M@
The guy at CSM in caloundra sells stainless ones but it is good to know you can get the others from repco.
The last UC front end I pulled apart had about 6 x 1/8" and 2 x 1/16" spacers but it will depend on the luck of the draw to a certain extent.
M@
#22
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 11 March 2006 - 08:28 PM
Some places charge per hour to align HQ's and Toranas because of the shims.
#23
_HB1200_
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 09:03 PM
I've put a UC x-member in my LH and have notice the following additional differences to the std LH item:
-UC lower arm has thicker tie rod stop on front (durability).
-UC lower arm has larger hole in center (easier to remove shock absorber).
I was also told that the UC rack had a different (better) ratio.
-UC lower arm has thicker tie rod stop on front (durability).
-UC lower arm has larger hole in center (easier to remove shock absorber).
I was also told that the UC rack had a different (better) ratio.
#24
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 09:16 PM
#1 I've never seen one wear out.I've put a UC x-member in my LH and have notice the following additional differences to the std LH item:
#1 UC lower arm has thicker tie rod stop on front (durability).
#2 UC lower arm has larger hole in center (easier to remove shock absorber).
#3 I was also told that the UC rack had a different (better) ratio.
#2 You can do that to an LH lower arm with a file or small grinder.
#3 All prefference. Do you want the steering lighter or heavier?
#25
Toranamat69
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 11:13 PM
I believe UC, LH and LX had the same ratio steering racks with the exception of the A9X which had 2 quicker versions available.
M@
M@
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