i have done all of those as in my first year of my apprenticeship i didnt do much of electrical work so at home i just twisted wires wrapped with electrical tape luckily i only used it on my CD player.. My 2nd year i started crimping at home but started to solder at work mostly for aftermarket window regulators on magna's.. And now i can solder properly so i solder all the time except on stereo etc.. Also the slice clips work only for about a month then they unclip or wire breaks
Solder or Crimp
Started by
antelopeslr5000
, Jan 22 2009 07:24 PM
46 replies to this topic
#26
gooley
-
- Members
-
- 529 posts
Forum Fixture
- Name:Jason
- Location:Adelaide, SA
- Car:Holden Torana LC 1970 Coupe
- Joined: 07-March 06
Posted 01 February 2009 - 09:37 PM
#27
_FCCOOL_
_FCCOOL_
-
- Guests
Posted 09 May 2009 - 01:19 PM
i solder if its important or i am in some fussy keen mood, i have a ratchet crimper, bought it from jaycar for $39, i heatshrink everything, even all the crimp termials behind the dash are heatshrinked
i reckon solder is better but it takes longer to fit the terminals, to join wires i only ever solder, i work at mercedes benz and they have all the terminals soldered on, ive heard lots of neg stuff about solder failing, but in real life crimp terminals fail much much more from what ive seen.
i always give the terminals a good tug to make sure they crimped properly, i had some terminals from k mart that had thin metal used in them, those things never pass a good tug test
i reckon solder is better but it takes longer to fit the terminals, to join wires i only ever solder, i work at mercedes benz and they have all the terminals soldered on, ive heard lots of neg stuff about solder failing, but in real life crimp terminals fail much much more from what ive seen.
i always give the terminals a good tug to make sure they crimped properly, i had some terminals from k mart that had thin metal used in them, those things never pass a good tug test
#28
_kingy_
_kingy_
-
- Guests
Posted 09 May 2009 - 03:03 PM
twist and crimp with a straight joiner using one end of the joiner for the connection, the unused end gives a convenient probe point later.
solder is for fixing radiators lol.
solder is for fixing radiators lol.
Edited by kingy, 09 May 2009 - 03:04 PM.
#29
_cruiza_
_cruiza_
-
- Guests
Posted 09 May 2009 - 03:06 PM
I like to solder and heatshrink, but at work it is all crimp, I have a super duper flashy doo crimper $135.00 and I find either ways works never had a fault from my joins, That said certin crimps and twist and tape jobs other people have done, not such shinny goodness
#30
Rockoz
-
- Members
-
- 4,055 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Rob
- Location:Cowra NSW
- Joined: 21-September 08
Posted 09 May 2009 - 04:57 PM
There are pros and cons for both ways.
It is said that the brittleness of a solder joint can cause the wire to break.
The extra dangling weight of a crimp joint can do the same.
I have come across crimp joiner where the insulating sleeve has moved exposing the joiner.
A crimp joint doesnt exclude environmental factors, and as such contaminants can enter the joint and cause corrosion, and ultimately a bad joint.
Soldering and heat shrinking, especially heatshrink with internal glue, will virtually eliminate breakage problems.
One also has to remember that you should not rely on solder for the strength of the joint. Placing 2 wires side by side and then soldering is not a particularly good idea. Twist them together for mechanical strength, then solder for electrical conductivity.
But.
In mining applications, where a winding reel is used, with pretty extreme pressure applied, the repairs are crimped then vulcanised.
These are cables that have conductors around the same size as heavy battery cables.
Given all this, the options for in order of my preference for automotive would be
1. Replace entire run of wire.
2. Twist, solder then use glue heatshrink.
3. Twist, solder then normal heatshrink.
4. Crimp then glue heatshrink
5. Crimp then normal heatshrink
6. Crimp only
7. Twist and tape.
This is optimal, but there are times when the preferred option isnt able to be done.
It is said that the brittleness of a solder joint can cause the wire to break.
The extra dangling weight of a crimp joint can do the same.
I have come across crimp joiner where the insulating sleeve has moved exposing the joiner.
A crimp joint doesnt exclude environmental factors, and as such contaminants can enter the joint and cause corrosion, and ultimately a bad joint.
Soldering and heat shrinking, especially heatshrink with internal glue, will virtually eliminate breakage problems.
One also has to remember that you should not rely on solder for the strength of the joint. Placing 2 wires side by side and then soldering is not a particularly good idea. Twist them together for mechanical strength, then solder for electrical conductivity.
But.
In mining applications, where a winding reel is used, with pretty extreme pressure applied, the repairs are crimped then vulcanised.
These are cables that have conductors around the same size as heavy battery cables.
Given all this, the options for in order of my preference for automotive would be
1. Replace entire run of wire.
2. Twist, solder then use glue heatshrink.
3. Twist, solder then normal heatshrink.
4. Crimp then glue heatshrink
5. Crimp then normal heatshrink
6. Crimp only
7. Twist and tape.
This is optimal, but there are times when the preferred option isnt able to be done.
#31
_FCCOOL_
_FCCOOL_
-
- Guests
Posted 10 May 2009 - 01:21 AM
twist & tape should only be for no more than 30 seconds to test something, i wouldnt drive around with it and if you have your iron already plugged in you can do it just as quick, the slowest part is waiting for the solder to cool before the heatsink goes on.
#32
_bon_scott_
_bon_scott_
-
- Guests
Posted 10 May 2009 - 01:57 AM
Depends what I'm doing, but important stuff that's likely to be permanent gets soldered, most other stuff gets crimped. I helped dad rewire his HT with a stereo, power mirrors, windows, aerial and a shitload of electrical add ons and we found the narva white wiring clips to be a godsend. They mean it can all be unclipped in minutes if need be, and it gives it a sort of factory appearance as well. And they're well made enough to not fall apart.
#33
_426_
_426_
-
- Guests
Posted 10 May 2009 - 08:20 AM
SPLICE JOINS: Twist, sodler and heat shrink.
PLUG TERMINALS: Crimp as per factory.
SMALL POWER TERMINALS: Crimps, solder and heat shrink.
LARGE TERMINALS AND BUTT JOINS: Crimp and heat shrink.
Electrical tape shoudl be use only when no other option is available.
Its good to see there are alot of thorough auto elecs here's.
At least 90% of other "pro" electrical work I've had to deal with has been disgusting, dodgey and even dangerous.
PLUG TERMINALS: Crimp as per factory.
SMALL POWER TERMINALS: Crimps, solder and heat shrink.
LARGE TERMINALS AND BUTT JOINS: Crimp and heat shrink.
Electrical tape shoudl be use only when no other option is available.
Its good to see there are alot of thorough auto elecs here's.
At least 90% of other "pro" electrical work I've had to deal with has been disgusting, dodgey and even dangerous.
#34
Tiny
-
- Administrators
-
- 10,018 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Tiny
- Location:Sydney
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 10 May 2009 - 04:08 PM
Bon - The only problem i had with those narva white clip terminals is if you twist the blade even 0.0000001 mm then the bastards dont clip into the plastic plugs and they back out when you push the plugs together!
Anyone else found this? - Maybe i was doing something wrong?
Anyone else found this? - Maybe i was doing something wrong?
#35
_Gunmetal LH_
_Gunmetal LH_
-
- Guests
Posted 29 August 2009 - 07:13 PM
I try to solder wherever I can, usually followed by tape as I normally forget to put the heatshrink on first...
I've rarely found a crimped joint that looked neat or wasn't corroded.
When doing a stereo or something under the dash I just use a cigarette lighter using the 'blue' bit of the flame- works fine and eliminates you stepping on the soldering iron just outside the door.
I've rarely found a crimped joint that looked neat or wasn't corroded.
When doing a stereo or something under the dash I just use a cigarette lighter using the 'blue' bit of the flame- works fine and eliminates you stepping on the soldering iron just outside the door.
#36
_briansparks0211_
_briansparks0211_
-
- Guests
Posted 05 October 2010 - 12:45 AM
Great thread topic. "To solder or not solder that is the question," someone famous said. Or not. But if looking pro. is important, then using heat shrink tubing is probably best. If you care about it lasting, you need to make sure it can handle chemicals, like acids, heat exposure and UV exposure as well as insulate. The good stuff with excellent PFA Properties is made by a co. called flourotherm. Don't use tape unless you have to, or you forgot the HST.
#37
_Woodsy_
_Woodsy_
-
- Guests
Posted 05 October 2010 - 08:56 AM
My ute had Electrical joiners from a Household electrical store.. lol i ripped those buggers out straight away
#38
_BLACK LH_
_BLACK LH_
-
- Guests
Posted 06 October 2010 - 05:31 PM
Yeah, thoses splice scotch locks are pretty crap.
Quick and nasty, an auto electricians dream!
All i can say never ever use these things (unless you really hate the guy whose car it is) i spent 3 hours recently removing and soldering dodgy crimped connections, with the above scotch locks, from head lights cutting out to no high beam to no horn
I do a lot of wiring work for work and 90% of open circuits are caused by peoples "crimped" terminals
#39
_nemo355v8_
_nemo355v8_
-
- Guests
Posted 08 October 2010 - 07:58 PM
solder mostly, crimp every none and then. depends on application
#40
_UCV80_
_UCV80_
-
- Guests
Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:59 PM
I use quality crimps and crimping tool, i have half the Narva range in my tool box lol
I also use heat shrink on everything, and i mean Everything!
I would only use solder for very important joins, such as extending wires on my 6AL.
I also use heat shrink on everything, and i mean Everything!
I would only use solder for very important joins, such as extending wires on my 6AL.
#41
LXCHEV
-
- Members
-
- 3,637 posts
Lotsa Posts!
- Name:Brett
- Location:Melbourne
- Car:'76 LX - 383 Chev
- Joined: 08-November 05
Posted 18 October 2010 - 01:51 PM
Firstly, I would never, ever use those dodgy splice blocks either, and I would also never just 'twist and tape' - not unless you actually want to have electrical problems later down the track. I also try to avoid cheapo crimping connectors and tools.
Coming from an electronics background, I've always been a soldering person.
I've also used good quality ratchet crimpers which aren't too bad.
However these days I now like using Utilux style connectors, and double crimping. The first crimp bends the tabs onto the insulation. The second crimp then bends another set of tabs over onto the bare wire. Once you do this, it's rock solid. Even if you tug on the wires now, they won't budge. Not the cheapest things to buy, but now that I'm used to them, I'd never go back to cheap stuff.
Coming from an electronics background, I've always been a soldering person.
I've also used good quality ratchet crimpers which aren't too bad.
However these days I now like using Utilux style connectors, and double crimping. The first crimp bends the tabs onto the insulation. The second crimp then bends another set of tabs over onto the bare wire. Once you do this, it's rock solid. Even if you tug on the wires now, they won't budge. Not the cheapest things to buy, but now that I'm used to them, I'd never go back to cheap stuff.
#42
_torbirdie_
_torbirdie_
-
- Guests
Posted 18 October 2010 - 08:29 PM
Couldnt stand the narva style ones where the insulation gets crimped as well, looks ordinary and insulation would often crack. Purchased large boxes of the utilux style ones in male and female bullet style and spade connectors along with the clear plastic covers that slide on. 20 years down the track, Ive used about half of them, but disappointingly the plastic covers have gone all gooey and arent much fun to work with at all.However these days I now like using Utilux style connectors......
#43
Tiny
-
- Administrators
-
- 10,018 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Tiny
- Location:Sydney
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 19 October 2010 - 07:12 PM
#44
davelh
-
- Members
-
- 819 posts
Forum Fixture
- Location:Adelaide
- Car:74 LH SL
- Joined: 10-November 05
Posted 19 October 2010 - 08:03 PM
You would be looking at section 4 insulated terminals, the rest are used in the power industry/electrical industry
#45
Tiny
-
- Administrators
-
- 10,018 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Tiny
- Location:Sydney
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 19 October 2010 - 08:33 PM
Ta Dave,
We use the utilux bare crimps at work, that's why i was asking!
I have used the insulated terminals with my ratchet crimpers before but i still found that the narva crimps (but not the white clips!) give a better finish!
We use the utilux bare crimps at work, that's why i was asking!
I have used the insulated terminals with my ratchet crimpers before but i still found that the narva crimps (but not the white clips!) give a better finish!
#46
Toranamat69
-
- Members
-
- 2,117 posts
Forum R&D Officer
- Location:Brisbane
- Joined: 07-November 05
Posted 20 October 2010 - 12:29 AM
Bon - The only problem i had with those narva white clip terminals is if you twist the blade even 0.0000001 mm then the bastards dont clip into the plastic plugs and they back out when you push the plugs together!
Anyone else found this? - Maybe i was doing something wrong?
Yep pretty much anything by Narva is absolute crap - the plug in relay bases are even worse than the white plugs. That drives me nuts when the pins back out when you plug them in. The terminals are all made way too weak. The pull to seat type are much better and cannot back out.
I have found these below and am progressively changing all of my plugs and relays over as I hide my wiring - these are all waterproof too.
I pretty much solder and heatshring everything (except the ones below with the silicon seals) due to the generally poor quality crimp connections available. The Utilux are the best of those I have used as others have said.
http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/product_info.php?cPath=53&products_id=682
http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/product_info.php?cPath=53&products_id=686
http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/product_info.php?cPath=53&products_id=694
http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=1095
#47
View GaragePosted 20 October 2010 - 05:58 AM
^ You can rob those type of weatherproof connectors off later model Commodore looms (anything EFI I think)
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
