Jump to content


Photo

25 painted as 05 in the UK


  • Please log in to reply
422 replies to this topic

#251 Balfizar

Balfizar

    Forum Fan

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 462 posts
  • Joined: 15-December 10

Posted 10 March 2014 - 11:12 PM

Whether you agree with the investigation on the bertie street forum or not, and clearly you don't from what you wrote there and continue to to here, there is other evidence that will only come to light if the QLD car is sold as 05.

I've seen some of it, I am not willing to say who has it or what it is for good reason, but it's there.

Just remember, only one person ever said the Champion car was 05, and that bloke couldn't even remember what diff ratio they used at Bathurst....

The only one you got right is the disagree with the Bertie Street investigation - based on the entire evidence presented and the conclusion drawn.

I believe there are inaccuracies  in the investigation and they are substancial and create a credibility gap wide enough to stop me jumping to their conclusions.

I too have heard the rumours but will only debate what is known and presented in the public domain, all else is hearsay.

Nice cheap shot at PB, how many gearbox/wheel diameters/track necessitating a diff ratio change went through PB's head through his career and you take a cheap shot because he forgets one.

once you hit 50 its all down hill from there with your memory, only the slope varies.

 

Cheers

Balfizar



#252 REDA9X

REDA9X

    Removed

  • Inactive
  • Pip
  • 0 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 05

Posted 10 March 2014 - 11:20 PM

Not a cheap shot, it's a fact, and a fact that proves memories fade, and you just admitted that yourself. There was far more to this 25-05 story in the day.



#253 xu2308

xu2308

    Grail Hunter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,704 posts
  • Name:AL
  • Location:Belconnen ACT
  • Car:SMP LJ GTR V8 Prototype-Confirmed By HHS and Ex GMH XW7 Engineers
  • Joined: 09-April 09

Posted 11 March 2014 - 01:21 PM

C.A.M.S should have the answer, when 05 was Logged in the first place, wouldn't the Chassis Number be on there original C.A.M.S records ?????????????



#254 Balfizar

Balfizar

    Forum Fan

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 462 posts
  • Joined: 15-December 10

Posted 11 March 2014 - 01:36 PM

C.A.M.S should have the answer, when 05 was Logged in the first place, wouldn't the Chassis Number be on there original C.A.M.S records ?????????????

 

CAMS have no record of the chassis number of the NMRM 05 anywhere in their system.

 

Cheers

Balfizar



#255 xu2308

xu2308

    Grail Hunter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,704 posts
  • Name:AL
  • Location:Belconnen ACT
  • Car:SMP LJ GTR V8 Prototype-Confirmed By HHS and Ex GMH XW7 Engineers
  • Joined: 09-April 09

Posted 11 March 2014 - 02:44 PM

Find that hard to Believe, they must have a Body Number or Chassis Number on there Records, the C.A.M.S Log Book for the 05 Car must have some thing on it to ID the Car.



#256 _Dustings_

_Dustings_
  • Guests

Posted 11 March 2014 - 02:46 PM

I find it hard to believe also

#257 REDA9X

REDA9X

    Removed

  • Inactive
  • Pip
  • 0 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 05

Posted 11 March 2014 - 03:06 PM

Nothing surprises me that CAMS don't have it on record when they can apparently match a chassis number to a car that wasn't even the chassis number of the car when it was apparently raced.



#258 xu2308

xu2308

    Grail Hunter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,704 posts
  • Name:AL
  • Location:Belconnen ACT
  • Car:SMP LJ GTR V8 Prototype-Confirmed By HHS and Ex GMH XW7 Engineers
  • Joined: 09-April 09

Posted 11 March 2014 - 04:57 PM

Who has the C.A.M.S Log Book for 05 ??????? maybe the Answer is there



#259 Neils LX

Neils LX

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,074 posts
  • Name:a
  • Location:North west NSW
  • Joined: 18-March 07

Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:10 PM

Total dumb question time but has anyone seen pics of 25 car with GTX on headlight covers and Castol on front gaurd like 05 car had before it got raced. If 25 never had GTX headlight covers on it that should make 25 (com7) the second car built after (com6).



#260 REDA9X

REDA9X

    Removed

  • Inactive
  • Pip
  • 0 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 05

Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:16 PM

Log books are gone, but they did clearly state which was which, chassis 6 is 05, 7 is 25. i have spoken to the person who had them



#261 REDA9X

REDA9X

    Removed

  • Inactive
  • Pip
  • 0 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 05

Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:24 PM

I've seen pics of it like that yeah, there was an article in a magazine

 

Total dumb question time but has anyone seen pics of 25 car with GTX on headlight covers and Castol on front gaurd like 05 car had before it got raced. If 25 never had GTX headlight covers on it that should make 25 (com7) the second car built after (com6).



#262 _mdswat_

_mdswat_
  • Guests

Posted 11 March 2014 - 08:04 PM

If you are talking road cars matching numbers is the ultimate and chassis number the base and I believe the common approach to road cars.
 
"therefore regardless of what motor drive train brakes etc is on the car the car identity is what it is, in this case the Bathurst museum car is the original 05 that won Bathurst in 1984, "
 
Its a different story with race cars according to CAMS
Its a pity CAMS cannot identify the NMRM car by logbook or database, i don't think an undamaged rear quarter is in their criteria for assigning a Bathurst win.
 
that it is not in original condition is neither here nor there.
 Not unless you count by deception or incompetence you were lead to believe (unpainted, undamaged, no panels swapped, as raced)
 
For me there is one proof that the Bathurst car is 05, Harvey was punted off at turn one by George Fury mid race, the passenger side rear quarter was damaged,
Yes seen the video and photos
 
 
The car at Bathurst museum shows no sign of any damage in the rear quarter or any signs of repair.
Given that they so badly missed so many neither here nor there items(especially paint) I think for credibility sake I'd like to hear from a real expert on that one.
 

There are somewhere between 20 and 30 items that define a HDT race shell of this era  and more by the way they are done that what was done. (The Perkins touch)
I think you would have to identify and check off the list to say a HDT race shell and very hard to differentiate between Harveys car and any other VK group C HDTproduced race shell.
Its far to hard to go through a lengthy and difficult process of verification just take it for granted that its one of two and leave it at that.
Then you can comfortably jump to " Therefore it is not the Harvey car, ergo it must be 05,"
Given the volume of changes to the NMRM car its going to take more than day-glo, 05 and a number stamp to be thorough.
 

No according to the investigation or is it now selective criteria which is irrefutable and credibility is only attached to the items which have not been proved to be wrong!

Sure is and until I hear from from an expert with some credibility I will remain undecided.
 
Cheers
Balfizar


Regardless wether you agree with part or all of the investigations you seem to discredit what I have done and written, you claim that signwriting has since been done etc etc, you doublt my expertise on the quarter panel, 25 years in the trade says my experience is good enough. But if you reckon I'm wrong, get the person you regard as an expert, seeing I'm not good enough and we will all meet at the NMRM and settle it once and for all, don't hide behind you alias, put your money where you mouth is.

I'll back myself 110percent against anyone, bev Brock or Peter champion included, they both know it and are both pretty pathetic for trying to pull the wool over the public eyes.
As for your expert opinion on the signwriting, who long have you been signwriting for? You seem to know all so you must be an experienced signwriter.

If you so sure balizfar, there still 3 drivers out there, ask them yourself they tell you what you don't want to hear.

I'm free most weekends I'll arrange the visit with the curator, just let me know when you have your panel expert, looking forward it.

#263 REDA9X

REDA9X

    Removed

  • Inactive
  • Pip
  • 0 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 05

Posted 11 March 2014 - 08:19 PM

Where is that like button :clappin:



#264 xu2308

xu2308

    Grail Hunter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,704 posts
  • Name:AL
  • Location:Belconnen ACT
  • Car:SMP LJ GTR V8 Prototype-Confirmed By HHS and Ex GMH XW7 Engineers
  • Joined: 09-April 09

Posted 11 March 2014 - 08:20 PM

Put one on here REDA9X



#265 _cruiza_

_cruiza_
  • Guests

Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:04 PM

Just remember, only one person ever said the Champion car was 05, and that bloke couldn't even remember what diff ratio they used at Bathurst....

Hey Red just over 2 years ago I was at the Bowdens and 'Plastic' was guest of honour talking about the McLeod Brock Perkins car and afterwards I had a chat, being careful to be polite, told him of my interest in the 05 25 debate  I asked about the Brock Harvey car thing and he told me he had just come from Champions and that his car was 05, he had seen the paper work and he also said he was the one who loaded Harvey's car on the transporter and organised it's shipping to the Bathurst museum. I then told him that I had just been to the Bathurst museum and had had a chance to look in the boot and examine the rear up close and how to me it did not appear to have any damage or sign of repair. He had no comment after that. none at all, I do not believe I had offended him as I had been very careful in what and how I asked my questions. Perhaps and I am only guessing the legal ramifications were of concern to him  

 

But certainly at that time Peter Champion was saying he had 05 and had some paper work to back that claim up, rumour has it he now admits his car is 25

Plastic also said 05 was at Champions

 

Now this was after all the proof that Bathurst Museum car was 05 had come out 



#266 REDA9X

REDA9X

    Removed

  • Inactive
  • Pip
  • 0 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 05

Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:14 PM

Cruiza, the fact is there was a lot more to this story and what actually happened in 1985. The people who had nothing to lose know the truth. Try and deceive people, the truth eventually comes out.



#267 Balfizar

Balfizar

    Forum Fan

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 462 posts
  • Joined: 15-December 10

Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:17 PM

Regardless wether you agree with part or all of the investigations you seem to discredit what I have done and written, you claim that signwriting has since been done etc etc, you doublt my expertise on the quarter panel, 25 years in the trade says my experience is good enough. But if you reckon I'm wrong, get the person you regard as an expert, seeing I'm not good enough and we will all meet at the NMRM and settle it once and for all, don't hide behind you alias, put your money where you mouth is.

I'll back myself 110percent against anyone, bev Brock or Peter champion included, they both know it and are both pretty pathetic for trying to pull the wool over the public eyes.
As for your expert opinion on the signwriting, who long have you been signwriting for? You seem to know all so you must be an experienced signwriter.

If you so sure balizfar, there still 3 drivers out there, ask them yourself they tell you what you don't want to hear.

I'm free most weekends I'll arrange the visit with the curator, just let me know when you have your panel expert, looking forward it.

 

Did not take me 25 years in the trade to pick the difference here.

 

Perhaps you just don't like someone having a different opinion to yours.

 

I see nothing wrong with asking for a second opinion.

 

nonoriginalpaint0505_zps009c0104.jpg

 

Cheers

Balfizar


Edited by Balfizar, 11 March 2014 - 09:26 PM.


#268 _mdswat_

_mdswat_
  • Guests

Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:25 PM

Plenty of people, are trying to protect peters name, you have to remember Peter was human , we all make mistakes so did he. This was never about trying to discredit Peter, Im one of the biggest Brock fans out there, it was about the cars, what about skippy and Harves they have no credit/accolades with there car in the historic 1-2, remember it's not all about Brock.
I have spoken to plastic also ,different story, but that's another story.
Champions paperwork is a letter from Brock, evidence is better than someone's here say. No one would have ever thought these cars would have been worth anything years down the track.

What ever way you look at Brock sold/donated the same car twice.

#269 REDA9X

REDA9X

    Removed

  • Inactive
  • Pip
  • 0 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 05

Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:36 PM

And I think the final line in that should open the door to people as to what really went on back in 1985.



#270 REDA9X

REDA9X

    Removed

  • Inactive
  • Pip
  • 0 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 05

Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:52 PM

I love how you are basing your arguement there on a photo of the car in the build process when the scheme changed slightly for the final product. I can't show the picture because my scanner isn't working, but if you care to cast your eyes over the icons of motorsport Peter Brock book page 192 you will see the Brock 05 car at Sandown in 1984 with the identical painting of Marlboro and positioning as per the Bathurst museum car. Didn't take a paint expert to work that out either!

Did not take me 25 years in the trade to pick the difference here.

 

Perhaps you just don't like someone having a different opinion to yours.

 

I see nothing wrong with asking for a second opinion.

 

nonoriginalpaint0505_zps009c0104.jpg

 

Cheers

Balfizar



#271 WhaleOilBeefHooked

WhaleOilBeefHooked

    Lord Humungus The Ayatolla of Rock N Rolla.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,669 posts
  • Name:Andrew
  • Location:Sydney
  • Car:LJ GTR
  • Joined: 06-July 09

Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:53 PM

Well I for one am sitting with baited breath, popcorn that I just choked on & anticipation in learning exactly what went on in 1985... So go ahead make our day & Please do tell......



#272 _mdswat_

_mdswat_
  • Guests

Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:55 PM

Did not take me 25 years in the trade to pick the difference here.
 
Perhaps you just don't like someone having a different opinion to yours.
 
I see nothing wrong with asking for a second opinion.
 
nonoriginalpaint0505_zps009c0104.jpg
 
Cheers
Balfizar

You do make a very valid point there, something i did look at, but these were pics of the car whilst being built, we all know the cars were sign written, vinyl stickering was in its infancy you should know that being a signwriter. It has been clearly stated that the cars were hand painted due to getting the profile correct with the flares. Basing an assumption, maybe the pics of the build were draft vinyling.? Reason, if you were smart enough you notice that heights of the Marlboro and 05 are different in both pics you supplied, and if you done a little more research you noticed that every pic from the press release, sandown, Bathurst, surfers and the Calder support race all the signage you are querying in the picture on the right aren't seen anywhere other than that one pic, take a close look again at the picture on the left and where the r is place within the door, seeing your research is so good find me another picture where the r in Marlboro doesn't end in the same position.

I can recommend a few independent assessor 's or forensic specialist for the inspection when you ready, don't make any more excuses Balifzar, man up and put your money where you mouth is. You think I'm wrong prove. Prove me wrong.

#273 _Dustings_

_Dustings_
  • Guests

Posted 11 March 2014 - 10:01 PM

yzu6e8a8.jpg

#274 _Dustings_

_Dustings_
  • Guests

Posted 11 March 2014 - 10:30 PM

zezy6apa.jpg

#275 Balfizar

Balfizar

    Forum Fan

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 462 posts
  • Joined: 15-December 10

Posted 11 March 2014 - 10:49 PM

You do make a very valid point there, something i did look at, but these were pics of the car whilst being built, we all know the cars were sign written, vinyl stickering was in its infancy you should know that being a signwriter. It has been clearly stated that the cars were hand painted due to getting the profile correct with the flares. Basing an assumption, maybe the pics of the build were draft vinyling.? Reason, if you were smart enough you notice that heights of the Marlboro and 05 are different in both pics you supplied, and if you done a little more research you noticed that every pic from the press release, sandown, Bathurst, surfers and the Calder support race all the signage you are querying in the picture on the right aren't seen anywhere other than that one pic, take a close look again at the picture on the left and where the r is place within the door, seeing your research is so good find me another picture where the r in Marlboro doesn't end in the same position.

I can recommend a few independent assessor 's or forensic specialist for the inspection when you ready, don't make any more excuses Balifzar, man up and put your money where you mouth is. You think I'm wrong prove. Prove me wrong.

 

Everyone who follows this debate 05/25 knows the livery was changed from photoshoot to Sandown, I just want to know why your paint gauge did not pick up the re-signwrite or are you going for a swap of doors? and start again on a fresh set. So where do you get a fresh set of white doors Mid-1984 that have 1983 glass in them (I know Harveys car) so did harvey have have a Calais?

 

ScanEpson001_zps76c34a80.jpg

 

May be the missing bit of sign in the photo above will help you workout with what happened.

 

We will soon see who is got to man up! 

 

Cheers

Balfizar


Edited by Balfizar, 11 March 2014 - 10:58 PM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users