Hey guys, Im looking for a Diff to put in my Gemini and wondering if anyone here knows of any that fit the following criteria.
Live Axle
Easily available GOOD LSD
Choice of ratios would be nice but something around 3.9:1
Steel housing not cast so I can weld do it OR one where the center bolts in from the front so there is a ring of bolts at the front I can bolt a bracket onto instead of welding)
Lightweight and doesnt drain much power
Only needs to handle 300-400hp MAX probably closer to 300 (turbo 4cyl)
Commo borg warner is out as its got a Shit LSD, and Cast housing?
9" would be ok if it wasnt so big/heavy/power sapping
Hilux diff is at the top of my list atm but would be good if there was something abit lighter? if not its what ill be going for.
Light Strong Diff?
Started by
_Viper_
, Jun 21 2009 07:52 PM
38 replies to this topic
#2
Posted 21 June 2009 - 08:14 PM
Cast steel, you can weld to it. LSD would probably be fine in a Gem with smaller tyres and less weight.Commo borg warner is out as its got a Shit LSD, and Cast housing?
What about Hilux? http://www.gmh-toran.......50&hl=hilux
#3
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Posted 21 June 2009 - 08:22 PM
I welded my B/W...put a Lokka in it not LSD...problem solvered...
R
R
#4
Struggler
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Posted 21 June 2009 - 08:35 PM
I would put the BW LSD in front of the Hilux.
Check out this conversion...... http://www.mcdonaldb...inicontrol.html
Check out this conversion...... http://www.mcdonaldb...inicontrol.html
#5
_Torrie_Man_
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Posted 21 June 2009 - 11:27 PM
dont the piazza diffs straight swap into them?
#6
yel327
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Posted 22 June 2009 - 06:07 AM
Banjo with 3.9:1 find spline centre. Shorten the housing and Gemini axles go straight in - same spline and bearings. Only problem is the torque tube, so you have to somehow fit upper control arms! Should handle a turbo 4cyl OK.
#7
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Posted 22 June 2009 - 07:35 AM
Gemini B/W
#8
TerrA LX
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Posted 22 June 2009 - 07:47 AM
Commo borg warner is out as its got a Shit LSD, and Cast housing?
Every diff has a big cast centre wether it be part of the housing or a drop out centre like a banjo.
#9
warrenm
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Posted 22 June 2009 - 08:28 AM
My vote is with the Hilux.
[quote]yel327 Posted Today, 06:07 AM
Banjo with 3.9:1 find spline centre. Shorten the housing and Gemini axles go straight in - same spline and bearings. Only problem is the torque tube, so you have to somehow fit upper control arms! Should handle a turbo 4cyl OK.[quote]
The small Salisbury in the Gemini & the banjo use the same bearings,crown wheel & pinion so no strength advantage here.
Warren
[quote]yel327 Posted Today, 06:07 AM
Banjo with 3.9:1 find spline centre. Shorten the housing and Gemini axles go straight in - same spline and bearings. Only problem is the torque tube, so you have to somehow fit upper control arms! Should handle a turbo 4cyl OK.[quote]
The small Salisbury in the Gemini & the banjo use the same bearings,crown wheel & pinion so no strength advantage here.
Warren
#10
dattoman
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Posted 22 June 2009 - 08:37 AM
Who's going to shorten it and do the axles for you
In the same boat with the wagon ATM
In the same boat with the wagon ATM
#11
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Posted 22 June 2009 - 09:23 AM
Same advantage as a UC diff over an LX diff right? That's a fair advantageThe small Salisbury in the Gemini & the banjo use the same bearings,crown wheel & pinion so no strength advantage here.
Warren
#12
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Posted 22 June 2009 - 10:03 AM
Volvo diff, I put one in my eh ute, it was out of a 80-85 model sedan. Ratio was around 3.7-1, and from memory it had 28 spline axles. I was running pretty hot 186 with 100hp nitrous and it was manual and never had a problem with it, and it was welded. You should get a complete one for $50-$100 from the wreckers.
#13
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Posted 22 June 2009 - 10:05 AM
Forgot to mention they are early holden stud pattern with 1/2" studs.
#14
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Posted 22 June 2009 - 09:09 PM
[quote]I would put the BW LSD in front of the Hilux.[/quote]
Hilux 4-pinion clutch type compared to BW Cone type???
[quote]Check out this conversion...... http://www.mcdonaldb...inicontrol.html[/quote]
Engineers/RTA consider the mcdonolds bro kit as a Single Ladder bar and its written in black and white that ladder bars are not allowed (even tho the stock torque tube is pretty much the same thing, but cos its stock and central unlike the mcdonalds kit its ok.
[quote]dont the piazza diffs straight swap into them?[/quote]
Yes one of the model Piazza ones go in with small mods... BUT that model is very rare and it is abit stronger then stock gem but not that much.
[quote]Banjo with 3.9:1 find spline centre. Shorten the housing and Gemini axles go straight in - same spline and bearings. Only problem is the torque tube, so you have to somehow fit upper control arms! Should handle a turbo 4cyl OK.[/quote]
Huh? whats the point of that? end up with exact same axles (which is a major weakness) same ratio and the LSD's are weak as well?
[quote]Every diff has a big cast centre wether it be part of the housing or a drop out centre like a banjo.[/quote]
Yea but diff's like the Hilux the actual housing is non-cast steel all the way around the center and not just the axle tubes so can weld to it easily
[quote]Volvo diff,[/quote]
Are good LSD's available for them?
So Far Hilux is still in the lead, 4-pinion LSD, 31 Spline, Steel housing, Soarer Discs bolt on, 60kg
Hilux 4-pinion clutch type compared to BW Cone type???
[quote]Check out this conversion...... http://www.mcdonaldb...inicontrol.html[/quote]
Engineers/RTA consider the mcdonolds bro kit as a Single Ladder bar and its written in black and white that ladder bars are not allowed (even tho the stock torque tube is pretty much the same thing, but cos its stock and central unlike the mcdonalds kit its ok.
[quote]dont the piazza diffs straight swap into them?[/quote]
Yes one of the model Piazza ones go in with small mods... BUT that model is very rare and it is abit stronger then stock gem but not that much.
[quote]Banjo with 3.9:1 find spline centre. Shorten the housing and Gemini axles go straight in - same spline and bearings. Only problem is the torque tube, so you have to somehow fit upper control arms! Should handle a turbo 4cyl OK.[/quote]
Huh? whats the point of that? end up with exact same axles (which is a major weakness) same ratio and the LSD's are weak as well?
[quote]Every diff has a big cast centre wether it be part of the housing or a drop out centre like a banjo.[/quote]
Yea but diff's like the Hilux the actual housing is non-cast steel all the way around the center and not just the axle tubes so can weld to it easily
[quote]Volvo diff,[/quote]
Are good LSD's available for them?
So Far Hilux is still in the lead, 4-pinion LSD, 31 Spline, Steel housing, Soarer Discs bolt on, 60kg
#15
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Posted 22 June 2009 - 09:13 PM
Cast steel, you can weld to it. LSD would probably be fine in a Gem with smaller tyres and less weight.
What about Hilux?
Can you weld to cast steel exactly the same? ie with a MIG? or do you have to heat the whole thing to hi-temp and weld like you do with cast iron?
And Yea I mentioned Hilux on the list
I can get a full spool for the stock Gem diff using 28spline Axels which would be strong enough... But I don't want a Locker...I welded my B/W...put a Lokka in it not LSD...problem solvered...
#16
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Posted 22 June 2009 - 09:44 PM
Yes, you can weld to cast steel with a mig with no dramas.
Can you get hilux ratios lower than 4.11's? You said you wanted 3.9's...
I've heard Hiace diffs are the same thing.
Ther is also a Mazda Van/ute diff that some of the rotary guys use, can't remember exactly what it is, but may be worth looking into???
Can you get hilux ratios lower than 4.11's? You said you wanted 3.9's...
I've heard Hiace diffs are the same thing.
Ther is also a Mazda Van/ute diff that some of the rotary guys use, can't remember exactly what it is, but may be worth looking into???
#17
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Posted 22 June 2009 - 10:42 PM
I would go for a hilux diff. Heaps of ratio's to choose from, and you can get all sorts of internals from an open, lsd, auto/detroit lockers to an airlocker. Hilux axles are also 30 spline.
#18
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Posted 23 June 2009 - 05:21 AM
I would go for a hilux diff. Heaps of ratio's to choose from, and you can get all sorts of internals from an open, lsd, auto/detroit lockers to an airlocker. Hilux axles are also 30 spline.
From the info I have Hilux and Hiace are interchangable and Hiace have a 3.9 ratio. Supra turbo are IRS but the centre is the same and I have been told come with ratios from 3.7 although I can't confirm this. I was also told that some Crowns and Soarer V8s also used this diff.
If you break a hilux 4-spool then you have a beast and need a F--- diff and you wont break an axle.
Diff widths range and from memory mine is from an old model 6 stud and was 1380mm from where the wheel mounts and never had to cut it to fit it in my LC which at the end of day is in fact Vauxhall Viva/HB Torana so is a narrow car.
Also check the Diahatsu Rugger as someone told me these use a Hilux diff and may well be even narrower.
Hope this info helps
Graham
#19
Posted 23 June 2009 - 09:24 AM
Lokka, not lockedI can get a full spool for the stock Gem diff using 28spline Axels which would be strong enough... But I don't want a Locker...
#20
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Posted 23 June 2009 - 02:12 PM
I don'tt uynderstand all the stuffing around, just use an early gem B/W diff, fit a lokka if you have to for strength.
#21
yel327
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Posted 23 June 2009 - 07:34 PM
I don'tt uynderstand all the stuffing around, just use an early gem B/W diff, fit a lokka if you have to for strength.
I sort of think along the same lines. I didn't know a Gemini centre was the same as a small Sals/banjo. But since they are, banjos can be made to survive full house XU-1's so why wouldn't they (ie small salsbury) cope with a Gemini engine? For a street car I mean - track work I understand why!
I do like the Volvo diff idea though.
The other thought I had was a GQ/GU Patrol H233B rear diff. These came in 3.9:1 centres in Mavericks and some Patrols and are a banjo construction. They are offset axles, so thought was to maybe use 2 x short axles and shorten tube on one side? You'd have to machine the axles flanges down a bit and restud them or leave the Patrol drums and fit 15" Sunraysias! These come standard in LSD too I think, or buy an air locker or Lokka centre. There's also a bigger version again, a H260 which was in MK and GQ utes and are the same rear diff centre also as an old G60. 4x4 wreckers will tell you they sell heaps of their Hilux and Landcruiser diffs due to breakages but they have every Patrol diff they ever pulled out as they don't break.
#22
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Posted 23 June 2009 - 08:10 PM
What I mean is that there are two types of early gemini diffs, the bango type just like the UC/commodore (that the torana bango bits fit) and the B/W78 like the VK/VL.
#23
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Posted 23 June 2009 - 08:44 PM
Whats a Lokka? and how is it different to a Welded/spooled diff?
And yea 3.7 and up ratios are availiable for the Hilux diff and is 31 spline, every center from 1970 Hilux's to current model are interchangable between the housings.
Torana centers wont fit in a Gemini housing... Or so ive been told. its only the early model Commodore banjo's that fit in the gem housing... A few people have fitted the LSD's from these into gems and are O..K.. But dont handle the power and there quite rare... one sold recently for $700
Planning for around 350rwhp and plenty of runs down the strip with Slicks so want something to handle it without me ever having to worry... But dont want a full time locked diff as the boost will be turned down and car will be street driven regularly also..
I'll speak to Rotormototion about that mazda van/ute diff
And yea 3.7 and up ratios are availiable for the Hilux diff and is 31 spline, every center from 1970 Hilux's to current model are interchangable between the housings.
Torana centers wont fit in a Gemini housing... Or so ive been told. its only the early model Commodore banjo's that fit in the gem housing... A few people have fitted the LSD's from these into gems and are O..K.. But dont handle the power and there quite rare... one sold recently for $700
Planning for around 350rwhp and plenty of runs down the strip with Slicks so want something to handle it without me ever having to worry... But dont want a full time locked diff as the boost will be turned down and car will be street driven regularly also..
I'll speak to Rotormototion about that mazda van/ute diff
#24
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Posted 23 June 2009 - 09:06 PM
Viper, do a bit more research on the gemmy forums for the B/W and bango diffs, all the answers are there, as for the lokka ask roary how to fit one to a B/W.
Edited by TerrA LX, 23 June 2009 - 09:07 PM.
#25
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Posted 23 June 2009 - 09:10 PM
Whats a Lokka? and how is it different to a Welded/spooled diff?
A Lokka will disengage to allow the wheels to turn at different speed around corners when not under power
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