43 replies to this topic

[LXCHEV]

Hi guys,

I want to fit an x-pipe / kiss / merge in my exhaust, to replace my current balance pipe (H-pipe). This is in an LX sedan, with twin 2.5" system.

I'm looking for info on what style of X-pipe / kiss join others run?

I spoke to my local exhaust joint, and he makes his own, using two 90 degree pipes joined together, with the 'join' in the middle having an equivalent area of a typical 2.5" pipe (ie. a round hole). But I've seen other X-pipes where the join runs along for some distance - more like a long rectangular area. What's the go? Are there huge gains from tuning an x-pipe to your car?

I want something that will work well behind my Chev (approx 450HP) and Tri-Y's. Are different styles of X-pipe suited to different combo's???

Any info, advice, experiences would be great to hear.

Edited by LXCHEV, 28 September 2009 - 01:51 PM.

[LXCHEV]

Check out this link, click 'X-Pipe' from the left menu.... it demonstrates some of the differences..

http://www.surefloexhaust.com.au

[Litre8]

I think they have the potential to add a lot a exhaust gas interference at the merge point, depending on the design.

I am looking at maybe going the other way, away from the X to a H (dual 3.5" with 2.25" balance)

[LXCHEV]

Interesting Howard. I totally agree - unless the right style is fitted, I think they could possibly have a negative impact too. I checked out your setup on your website, cool photos. Is this photo still current?

LITRE8's system:


On my last exhaust system (4-into-1's with twin 3"), my engine builder/dyno tuner wanted to run an X-pipe, but he said he couldn't fit it in place where he wanted it to work best (apparently placement does play a key role). So rather than fit it incorrectly, he opted instead for a "balance tube". This was a rectangular shaped balance 'H' style tube, but probably 100mm or so long. With that system, my car made heaps more power on the dyno, and ran it's best times by far.

Now that I've gone back to Tri-Y's, I'm down on power and times. I just want to maximise their potential and squeeze every last bit from them. My current old style balance pipe is a shocker, I need to get a photo of it, so you can see why I'm wanting to change it. It's actually really long, and bends backwards in a huge arch towards the front of the car.. hard to describe. But it can't be working very well in my opinion.

[Litre8]

Yep, that pic is current except it now has turn-downs right after the mufflers. Badly done H crossovers can be a killer if the balance pipe intrudes into the main pipe at the connection.

[Tiny]

Hey Brett,

I run an X pipe in my exhaust and it was made by the exhaust shop.

Unfortunately i dont have a picture of it at all!

I cant really saw whether it made a big difference or not because i never have really had a baseline to compare to.

I would suggest giving a go, because from what i've seen they CAN make a big difference!
My pipes just come together and i assume have had a hole bored in the side of them, and then welded around to form an ovalised shape internally.
I can say that we were able to remove a pair of resonators and keep the sound level to near where it was before we removed them!

Keep us up to date mate, Hopefully you can get back up there with the new Zorst!

(And my next upgrade will be a twin 3" system with a single muffler strictly for race purposes... kinda defeats my "street" needs but i think i should pick up LOTS of power!)

Cheers!

[marko1au]

just to add to the confusion,I remember seeing and article on x pipes (and i think it was on the chris mills performance website ) but don't quote me on that one. anyway he also has access to a dyno in his worshop and did an experiment where he did two or three different lenght x pipes and dynoed the vehicle. I can't remember the lenghts but getting the lenght right was the answer. hope this helps

mark

[Struggler]

Everything I have put an X into has quietened down and made a bit more midrange torque.

I just cut about a third of the width of a 90 degree mandrel off and weld 2 together. You want it to look like the gas will cross over into the other pipe so line it up appropriately. I couldn't be bothered on my UC so just made a single system.

I like the sound and would do it for that reason only, if it makes a bit more torque then great !!

[LhMusL]

There was an article in Street machine not to long ago, think they were talking to difillipo, he said that most people do the merge hole to large and just a small (like 5 cent coin) works best????
Think the reasoning was if you cut too much out of both pipes you are losing pipe flow capacity at that point( eg instead of being 2x2.5' it would be 2x2.25'), and this would cause a restriction at higher gas flows?
Maybe give him a buzz??? But yeah each engine/combo would need to be customised to suit. Lengths, angles, hole size etc...
Thats my take on it anyway

[LXCHEV]

Thanks for all the great replies. I am definitely very keen to fit an X-pipe after hearing some of the positive feedback.

As Struggler touched on - I'm hoping it shuts mine up a little bit too and evens out the note. Mine is a bit 'thong-slappy' at the moment.

ass308 - cheers for those great pics, they're a big help. Is your crossmember a CRS item? Mine is (to suit T350) and it looks identical to yours. So that gives me a good idea of where it can fit in the system.

I'll continue the research, and will definitely chat to Difillipo too...

Cheers all!

Edited by LXCHEV, 28 September 2009 - 10:52 PM.

[ls2lxhatch]

Sureflow refer to the Di Fillipo as a "pretend merge". It is hard to imagine what benefit such a small merge would provide. The pictures on the Sureflow website show how the merge has overheated due to the restriction caused by the merge.



I prefer the Litre8, Sureflow style of merge as the bends are not as aggressive and the two pipes run side by side. According to the guy that did my exhaust the 308 sounds best with a H pipe.

Edited by ls2lxhatch, 28 September 2009 - 11:07 PM.

[76lxhatch]

I'm hoping it shuts mine up a little bit too and evens out the note. Mine is a bit 'thong-slappy' at the moment.

It will definitely do that but after having tried it myself I've gone back to the twin as I like the rougher sound better, there's something not quite right about an old V8 that sounds too smooth

[orangeLJ]

Pacemaker make a pre-fabbed X pipe section (vortex?)

from memory when we had the shop, we fitted a few of them with decent results.

[LXCHEV]

That overheated x-pipe shown above is amazing.. and proves that some clearly do not work. I am definitely keen on the longer, side-by-side style join.

Here's the Pacemaker V-Tex merge pipe for interests sake... it's hard to tell what it looks like internally... is it just me, or does it look just like a standard H pipe, with flat steel next to it?

Edited by LXCHEV, 29 September 2009 - 10:22 AM.

[LXCHEV]

Here's a MagnaFlow one...

[76lxhatch]

The Pacemaker one is definitely just an H, although it does have the rifling type bits in the tubing after the H. Looking at it I can imagine it flows better than the Magnaflow X, which doesn't seem to have much thought put into the angles.

[Litre8]

I think these guys started this, Dr Gas in the US..

[myss427]

I had twin three inch with a 3 inch H pipe at first, thought it sounded and went alright. Warren from horse power haven at the time said it was choked up and needed to go twin 4 inch. I compromised and went twin 3 and a half with matching X pipe (just like ASS308's) and the car woke up! Sounded much higher pitched like a super car sound, better torque.

Edited by myss427, 29 September 2009 - 12:45 PM.

[Litre8]

Twin 4"...... Hmmm.....Mufflers might be challenge?

[LXCHEV]

Twin 4" would be massive! Twin 3.5" is still massive enough.

Here's a quick 2 minute read from the Yanks on the gains they found from X over the H. Some interesting points, and the article also touches on the note, saying the X creates a more high pitched smoother note, exactly what you said myss427...

http://www.pontiacst...p/exhaust3.html

[TerrA LX]

That overheated x-pipe shown above is amazing.. and proves that some clearly do not work. I am definitely keen on the longer, side-by-side style join.

I can not claim to be an expert and I am not defending the manufacture but let me just say it would be unusual for an exhaust to overheat in this section alone (x over or no x over) and I have overheated a few exhaust systems myself.
Other factors create this aswell including leanout thru ECU or sensor faults or a dud coil on multi coil setups.
We can not confirm if this system was even fitted to the original car it was intended as they custom make most all their systems.