40 replies to this topic

[ls2lxhatch]

I replaced the front suspension bushes on my hatch 20 years ago with rubber except for the lower rear bush and the k-frame to body mounts which were orange SuperPro. The SuperPro bushes were still as good as new when pulled the suspension out for the engine swap.

[Statler]

If these items are prone to failure in high humidy climates, then surely that has to be a safety issue!

Shouldn't the suppliers be recalling ALL stock?

[enderwigginau]

Polyurethane also degrades when subjected to long-term high heat, hence why nolathane steering coupling disintegrate.
DJ - you had em locked in a toolbox outside for a number of years, this could also be a contributary factor - once they start to degrade, humidity effects will increase.

Grant..

[Statler]

I had a full set of nolathane fitted into the front end of the hatch.
It sat in the carport for 2yrs, & the bushes crumbled.
It had never had an engine fitted or saw any road use.

[rodomo]

I think McKay were the OEM to Holden......................weren't they?

[dudley]

hi guys, my name is glenn and joined as a member the other day when a friend told me about this site. i am a suspension mechanic and have been reading thru this post and just want to let you know what i know about this subject. most of the people that are having probs with the polyurethane crumbling apart seem to come from QLD, im in melb but would i be wrong in saying you live in a more humid enviroment ?.
polyurethane buggers up in humid areas even if the bushes have been in the packet on the shelf, NT is real bad for it. polyurethane is a good bush if it is installed corectly (all mating surfaces clean and the right amount of greese). we have found super pro to be the best poly on the market, noletec doesnt exist any more it was bought out by red ranger(nolathane), pedders poly and nolathane are the exact same bush just different packaging and most of the time a little bit to hard, whiteline is also owned by red ranger now, there bushes seem ok but i find the outer shells seem to be to thin only making fitment a little harder. uv doesnt realy damage the bush but if left in the sun it will turn a blackish color. hope this helps.

glenn.

i rebuilt my wholw front end with noltec or superpro (blue ones). Drove it for a few years and then its been parked for even longer. Found the lower control arm bushes just fell to bits... very dissapointed... Any one know a good rubber brand of bushes?? Im not a big Kelpro rubber fan either.

torry man, as ass308 said the pedders rubber bushes are good i think the best on the market, but they only have frt upr and lwr ctrl arm bushes and rr upr and lwr trailing arm bushes in rubber, everything else is poly. also noletec are a light blue, superpro are a dark blue/purpulish color.

glenn.

Thank you for sharing mate, we all appreciate it.

I should update, i put the old rubber bushes back in, with the Nolethaine lowers, all seems fine atm......

I hope you stay around and update noobs like me with what kind of bushes to put where, as theres no where local i can get decent info from so the forums are god to me.

Also possibly we will find somethign i can help you with one day.

Cheers.

Hi guys,
I'm usually a bit dubious about responding to some threads as some members get 'arked up' but I feel I have some information on this topic to share with all for what its worth.

I agree with glenn, and to share my experiences with the stuff, polyurethane strength is DEFINETLY NOT affected by UV, humidity or any element exposure, sitting around in a packet on the shelf for five years or even things such as tension/compression for which it was designed. Only one instance I had where it was exposed to constant leaking diesel oil/fuel over a ten year period and it turned out slightly discoloured but otherwise still maintained its strength. I have seen components made of this stuff handle in excess of 200 million tonnes of rail traffic over it for many years and it still possesses the quality as the day it was installed. (see my previous mail in this same thread). If you can park a 130 tonne locomotive on top of it, or run a 5,000 tonne superfreighter over it time after time and its still good for re-use right now then it has to be good. Try that with rubber of the same dimensions, I don't think so!

I recently spoke to the guy who I have liased with over many years at my work and who makes the stuff for a living here in Adelaide, 'the poly guru' regarding Bombers problem. He agrees with my sentiments that polyurethane is not affected by the elements. Polyurethane was developed by the mining industry years ago to overcome the ongoing high maintenance factor of their equipment such as replacing the rollers on ship loading conveyor belt systems etc. As an example, shutting down loading facilities at ports to replace rubber and other components is costly and the polyurethane rollers etc helped to reduce this maintenance routine substantially. From my experience and as I mentioned earlier, a GOOD QUALITY polyurethane WILL withstand being placed in any location or application in a Torry.

The problem lies in the manufacture of the stuff. It is said that some manufacturers may add a "filler material" to the good mix so that the liquid bulks up and "goes further" prior to pouring so they can produce more products, in this case suspension bushes from the one batch mix. Its very similar to watering down paint so it goes further. Perhaps call it industry economics.

The crunch is that with the addition of the "filler material", polyurethane looses its extremely superior qualities and THE first thing to suffer is its material bonding capability which causes a loss of strength resulting in material degeneration. Yes, thats more than likely all the problem is! You can't beat quality.

It is also said that you'll probably find this more apparent in the boat trailer roller industry where they may get away with it more often. Lots more trailers and lots more rollers to be made and hence they can 'stretch' the output production numbers.

Based on the stories I've seen so far, its buyer beware. If I was to purchase a polyurethane suspension product for my Torry right now then I would be asking the guy behind the counter the $64 question - where was it made, is it local or is it imported, and to put his reputation behind his product and get him to demonstrate the stuff and put it in a vice (with jaw keepers), bang it with a hammer or something, and if it handles it buy it, and if it breaks and crumbles or shows signs of fatigue then walk away. That's me though. Alternatively, you may wish to have a right of returning the goods for refund/replacement. Methinks it should have a lifetime guarantee just sitting around in a package until installed anyway. Better still I would have the Adelaide guy make it.

I hope this further helps.

[StephenSLR]

Do they have a problem of goin brittle or is this the first time anyones heard of it?

Mine did, not sure what brand, they came with K-Mac suspension.

My car was garaged for about 8 years and when I took it out of the garage the brakes seized upon application and after I got it back on the road the suspension was horrible.

Bushes had packed it in, they crumbled like a cookie would.

On a similar note, I had a pair of Ewing high tops that I had only wore a few times, bought them when they were going out of fashion.

A few years ago I decided to wear them to a nostalgic occasion, they looked spanking brand new and after two blocks the soles started separating from the shoes, it was the weirdest thing to experience.

Thankfully they tore apart so close to home.

Would've been pretty uncomfortable had it happened in town.

There is also a warning swing tag that came with my safety boots saying something like the product deteriorates over time and not to store them for long periods.

I guess some polymer compounds have a use by date.

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 07 June 2010 - 01:41 PM.

[Statler]

I've done a little bit of poly pouring over the years, & witnessed the failures first hand.

There are a lot of variables associated in the process which can/will lead to the failures that Bomber & i have experienced.

Incorrect mix ratios & mixing techniques, under cooking the poly, chilling of the oven.... the list goes on.

Yet i fail to see how a manufacturer; when making muti-pours; usually with automatic mixes ect, can still achieve the failures that we are seeing.

I dont know if the climate in Nth Qld is a contributing factor, or wether it is just because i live up here & get to hear the stories locally, but the issue seems to be more prevailant up here.

Food for thought.

[mr5000]

i used all rubber in my car think they were all mckay handles beautifully after hearing all these nolathane probs dont think id ever touch it now