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I must be stupid, why would you?


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#1 GML-31

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 09:50 AM

Ok, I cannot see any benefits of putting your cars info on a public forum. I personally have a collection of 7 cars and they wont be going on a site where it makes it easy for someone to collect numbers and remake tags. Have a think about it guys who is it actually benefiting? It is bad enough with reshells around why are we helping to make their jobs easier. Example someone rebuilding a car which is going to be a long resto puts his numbers up only to find when he goes for rego there is already a car with these numbers by a car done up to make a quick buck?
Not trying to make it a personal attack but Grant would you put your numbers from your GTR up for all to see??? If you answer yes you must be more trusting than I am.

I CAN understand if you want owners to just say I have a LX5000 in white etc... but not give out everything...

I will now have a bex and a lie down rant over.

#2 MRLXSS

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 09:56 AM

You make a good point. Maybe threads are locked and only a mod can approve (like for sale?) and then important numbers are removed.

#3 enderwigginau

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 12:09 PM

This would constitute a record for legal purposes should someone steal your details Kev.
And with confirmation, it just means the other car now needs to be inspected by ego or whoever.

Only those who want to should put anything up, if you want to keep details close hold, PM me or Datto, and only post what you are comfortable with, so long as the car is third party confirmed.

Grant..

#4 GML-31

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:56 PM

yeah but here we go again giving all the power of these cars to mods of a forum...sorry guys I dont trust anyone.

Why cant the register just have colour model and location and maybe options? Surely this would suffice. My objection is to giving the info to mods of a forum that dont have cars like this. I feel if anyone is going to collate all this it should be someone we vote on not just let all the mods of a forum sit on the info, what gives you more power over anyone else????

Edited by GML-31, 25 March 2010 - 02:05 PM.


#5 GML-31

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 02:16 PM

Oh by the way there is a couple of mods I would trust but I cant single anyone out.

#6 GML-31

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 02:46 PM

Grant this is my last comment, if you thought it is a good idea did you put Kelly's numbers up on the Cameo Gold register?
If you did as I said before you are braver than me. I just dont like people pushing ideas when they wont commit first to show no harm will be done by this.

#7 _Big T_

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 03:02 PM

Thought I would throw my two bobs into this one as well but I have done a bit of research first.

Below is my email and response from the National Motor Vehicle Theft Reduction Council

I am not saying do or dont, I am just saying be informed.


From: Tony Standfield [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, 25 March 2010 3:06 PM
To: Carsafe Reception
Subject: Online Register of valuable cars? Is this safe practice?

G'day,

My name is Tony Standfield and I am the President of the QLD Torana Car Club.

I have a quick question regarding the posting of Vehicle Identification Numbers on an online forum.

A forum I am active on has started a Register of valuable and rare Holden Torana's. These models include the GTR, XU-1, A9X, SS and SLR models. All of these models are over 30 years old. The purpose of the register is to try and gather information on how many of each model car still exist. In order to place your vehicle on the register we are being asked to supply identification numbers, namely the VIN, Body Tag, Chassis Number and ADR Compliance Plate.

I would like to know, in your opinion, is this a safe practice on a publicly accessible internet forum?

My main concern is that professional thieves can gather a large amount of information for the purpose of re-stamping ID plates and then attaching those plates to lesser model cars to sell at a large profit.

I would like to be able to give our club members some factual information before advising whether including their own car on the register is a good idea or not.

Any assistance or information you could provide me with would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Tony Standfield
President - QTCC

From: Ray Carroll [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, 25 March 2010 2:19 PM
To: Tony Standfield
Subject: RE: Online Register of valuable cars? Is this safe practice?

Hello Tony,

In short I don�t think it is advisable to put these details on-line. I am aware that Qld and Victoria police in recent years have investigated a number of cases of fraudulently created collectable cars being sold to unsuspecting buyers. As you are only too aware there is a great deal of difference in the market value of a genuine car and a replica. While the numbers can be usually obtained through other means such as posing as a prospective buyer or getting the numbers off cars at shows etc, I don�t think it is a good idea to make it easier for the bad guys by publishing them. Have you thought about a confidential register of the actual numbers and then linking a type of certification number that can be published on your site.

I hope this helps.

Regards

Ray Carroll
Executive Director
National Motor Vehicle Theft Reduction Council
50 - 52 Howard Street
Nth Melbourne Vic 3051
Tele: (03) 9348 9600
Fax: (03) 9348 9988

#8 Joshua

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 03:04 PM

yeah but here we go again giving all the power of these cars to mods of a forum...sorry guys I dont trust anyone.

Why cant the register just have colour model and location and maybe options? Surely this would suffice. My objection is to giving the info to mods of a forum that dont have cars like this. I feel if anyone is going to collate all this it should be someone we vote on not just let all the mods of a forum sit on the info, what gives you more power over anyone else????


the register can't have just colour model and location, because then you have no unquie identifier.
because all the info except location would be the same. and then you'd have dup locations.
in a database you need an identifier, the forum has member numbers, and to a lesser extent usernames.
the rta, qt etc use VIN numbers, and for a torana register to work we would have to aswell.

as for the trust thing, well, some people trust some people others don't trust the same people, no one would ever be happy.

#9 GML-31

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 04:44 PM

well it seems to me one of the mods doesn't trust anybody either because they failed to register their car months ago.

#10 _LH8VD69_

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 05:33 PM

For f#ck sake !! We are all obviously Torana nuts to even be on this site. There has to be a secure way to do this. The only way i see this can actually safely happen is if there is a legal registry and make it known with ads n the like that buyer beware if buying an SLR ,SS ect thats not on this registar as it maybe a copy.** National collectable torana registry** -----Fore Sale Genuine L34 blah blah ect.. *Buyer* Can you show me the the verifycation from the registry? No?Ok ill give you 15k for a lookalike. Owner doesnt like 15k for his gunuine L34 so he gets it verifyied. Who controls the registar? I dont bl&&dy know cause who can be trusted??? I don't know Posted Image

#11 _hutch_

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 06:01 PM

Ok so i assume your talking about identity theft so to speak,so when you take your car to show do you cover up all the tags so people cant read the numbers ???????????

#12 GML-31

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 07:01 PM

I dont lift my bonnet for that reason.

wasn't it a few years ago there was reports of people going around just taking shots of tags.

If you want a car verified before purchase there is sufficient car clubs out there with the knowledge without leaving a list open to all prying eyes.

My biggest concern is there is alist of cars made that only a few are privy too, what happens if one of these go bad and just start crossing off cars listed and say oh well I cant make that one its accounted for?

There is a court case pending currently where it seems there is problems with a few group C cars, even Bowdens have been stung by so called trusted people.

My advice to owners, you dont need to list them we know what we have, to buyers contact a local torana club where they can assist you in your purchase.

If I owned a LC or LJ and had put my numbers up for all to see I would be worried with the threat of new shells arriving soon. Also remember there is a VIN disc circulating ... very easy to find out which cars are missing and easy to replicate. The DODGY tag thread is really the only way to stamp out fakes.

Edited by GML-31, 25 March 2010 - 07:10 PM.


#13 Mort

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 07:27 PM

Any chance of removing mine, Kev's got me all paranoid now.

I take onboard the points Kev has put up and only listed mine in good faith and never give identity theft a thought.

Hey it may never happen and it's not like i have a rare car like others may have but the thought of someone else copying the numbers and reshelling has made me think twice about posting them again.

I'm not worried about members, just worried there might be (for want of a better word) a baddie casing the joint.


Mort

#14 its Paul

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 08:24 PM

I have the same concern as Kev, not that its an A9X, just a V8 SS, but its mine and couldn't handle it if any one else stole it or its identity.
I would open my bonnet at a show but the numbers would be covered. :ph34r:
Cheers.

#15 _hutch_

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 08:53 PM

Bloody sad we have to be goin down this path, ya take ya car to a show to show it off to fellow enthusiasts and worry that some a...hole is gunna steal its id,not that my LJ is a genuine (or going to be) XU 1 but still its what i can afford,but if you already have a vin number they wont be able register it in any case will they,the only thing the buggers will be able to do is to rebirth a "new car" if thats the right word.and if they get your home address then they know where to come steal it full stop.
Phillip

#16 GML-31

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 09:05 PM

My intention here was to point out that not everyone on any forum is there for the right reasons, why make it easier for them, you only have to listen to how many good cars are going missing at the moment to realise there are predators out there, imagine there interest when they see a user has a couple of nice cars .. over 6 months they could build a great friendship and find out your address and before you know it... it ends in tears.

#17 Mort

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 09:17 PM

Matt suggested XXXXX a few numbers at the end of the vin, do you think that might work, if they don't know the whole number then it would be a guessing game for the crooks and make it alot harder to copy.

Mort

#18 dattoman

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 10:28 PM

If you don't want to be on the list
Don't put your car there
And if its there and you want it off... PM me I'll take it off

I believe some people are way too paranoid but thats their right to be if they want
Especially when you consider all the numbers are out there whenever a car lists on just about every for sale site in Oz
And you guys are posting numbers left right and centre

So do as you see fit and feel safe with

#19 Mort

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 11:19 PM

PM sent.


Mort

#20 _Pallbag_

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 07:04 AM

Matt suggested XXXXX a few numbers at the end of the vin, do you think that might work, if they don't know the whole number then it would be a guessing game for the crooks and make it alot harder to copy.

Cant see a lot of point blanking out only some of the numbers, may as well not have any there at all ...

#21 _LH8VD69_

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 08:13 AM

What a sad sad world we live in. Dattoman is right though there are more than enough numbers circulating around for someone to make a copy if they so desired. I have taken my plates off my car and have them stored safely away. Not at home either. Illegal yes but i dont care as i have an original 76 LX SS L32 roller that i wanted to sell until someone stole the plates now its just sitting there worth cr&p all $. Not going to happen again !!

#22 enderwigginau

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 01:04 PM

I agree with Datto. Many are happy to post other peoples numbers but want to keep theirs to themselves.

One problem is that the knowledge to check these cars IS NOT out there, even in the torana clubs. If a car appears correct, most "experts" and GMH will say they are fine. For example, there are still many an XU-1 afficianado who will tell you the all XU-1s had sprintmasters..........
And we all know there are now more GT Falcons than were produced!!

Many of the "trusted" people in the past are where the dodgy cars are coming from now - so I do understand the point. Targeting me won't get anywhere mate. I didn't start or suggest either of these registers, I just put em into place. The only one I suggested was SMP (These particular cars would be difficult to recreate as they were only a very small percetage of the whole, as with a few other model/colour combos.) - and if you look at that there is plenty of XXXXX89689, or vague location. For instance Kev, someone like you could put QLD as location, and I'm sure most would be happy with that.

These exist to get a picture of what is still out there and keep track of the real cars (hence confirmations) so if someone pops up with a dodgy or your numbers, then it's easier to pick em, and that info can be forwarded to the police. Much of the information being asked for is due to the fact it IS NOT available - like breakdowns of colour/trim/model spec that may in the future aid in putting a realistic value to the vehicles. If sstorana wasn't too busy I would nominate him as the safe doorkeeper of much of this info.

As has been said, it's a trust thing. I have many friends all across the country who have no doubt about my own personal integrity, and I have had the priviledge of going to see (and being told about) many very rare and valuable cars. These people all know I would not divulge any information regarding their vehicles or locations (other than vague relations - "an XXX car in Perth/Adelaide/etc") unless they are happy to pass that info on. I also quite often receive enquires about cars/tech etc from various sources incl. SM, and some people have been lucky enough to be tapped on the shoulder to aid these people/groups for correct info, as I don't pass on info that I don't know to be 100% true - go to the source when you don't know is my motto. I very much enjoy the chats I have with certain members who don't spend too much time here anymore but still want me to be involved in all the exciting things they are doing. I also have alot of faith in some people (even some I butt heads with) who others may not see in the same light, not knowing them the same as I do.

Unfortunately some people are too quick to trust in this day and age, and similarly, some don't show their true colours until you've known em for a while. Do your best to do your best people. If there is consensus on a "How" with regard to say, a keeper of the key, lets do that. This is YOUR forum, some of us just spend a lot of time here kicking our heals in the dirt waiting to help you out.

Grant..

PS. "My car" is an LX S Sedan in Papaya. Continuously registered since built, Vic to NSW to QLD. Let me know if you want the numbers. I will not and do not post other peoples numbers unless advised by the owners. I don't appreciate the (possibly misplaced) innuendo in this thread that I may be dodgy, when we both know people who are or have been in the past..........If I had two bob to rub together, my mates know that's not the route I would follow - and originality is not my stock in trade.

#23 _Viper_

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 05:30 PM

Im not sure about putting my SLR details up yet, but was just wondering... whats the benefit of it anyway? just so you can see how many are out there? your only gonna get a small percentage of whats actually out there... alot of people still dont even use the net, let alone know about this forum and then there is the people who just wouldnt want to post there details up.. so its not like your going to get a accurate idea of how many are around?

or am I missing something?

#24 GML-31

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 05:59 PM

was never meant as a personal attack on you Grant but what I was leaning towards is Kelly owns a GTR but both of you have reneged on posting numbers up here, there must be a reason for this? I will never divulge my details on a forum like this, if however a register was to be made by a government regulated office I would probably register them. What I also realise is this forum is controlled by a private consortium, unlike a club with officials nominated and elected to office. So how are we to know that somehow the information is not likely to be on sold or passed onto mates? What you also must realise if this is to be done properly it must be maintained by someone in a capacity to offer a certificate to verify such vehicles otherwise it really serves no purpose.
My final point is any topics that you feel are negative are quickly closed and forgotten about, this topic of posting numbers in my view is just as detrimental to the forum and should have been dealt with just as quickly. It in my opinion is not in the members best interest to have their numbers displayed for all to see and if I was a mod it would have been removed as quickly as some of the other topics.
You know where I live if you want to speak about it.

#25 _LH8VD69_

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 06:04 PM

Its a shame there has to be this trust issue thing happening as i think having a register is a very interesting read as a Torana nut that i am. Yeah i know about id theft as much as anyone as my SS hatch plates were actually phisically stolen. Not this time round cause i took em off my SLR Posted Image .... Ya right Viper not everyone does have the net but i dont know bout u but everyone i know has it or access to it. So we can capture a great %. But like its been mentioned b4 no one has to add their car. I personally can't see the prob as the complete VIN isnt displayed so copying will be an issue and even if it did i have my plates that match my body( not that its super special) ect ect so let em try ! Dirty mother fu#$ers !




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